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On that truth we can agree. :)

Except the result of people impugning the holiness of God. Are you sure this is about moral evil (sin) or just calamity? I think that distinction is important. And I do think that from a human perspective even those things which may have been permissively allowed by God can be accredited to...

So, you affirm contra-causal freewill of a believer, in that a believer has the ability to either accept or reject Calvinistic doctrine freely? In other words, assuming Wesley was a true believer, did he have the ability to willingly accept the Reformed doctrines of Grace? If so, isn't that...

I can attest to the fact that Luke spends very little time reading and responding when he posts. It is very evident. :smilewinkgrin: Just joshin ya bro!

How is it "passive" when you insist that "God did it?" Do you just mean "God allowed it to be certainly done" when you say "God did it?" Can you show me a quote where they say God does the DEED but its ok because his motive is pure? Because when I read them, I hear them saying God doesn't...

Agreed, and I'm asking where you believe it originated. The thought or intent to do evil had to originate/begin/start somewhere. Was it in God or his creature? I understand, but my question is: Where did that desire to rebel originate? In God or the creature? We both agree they were able, but...

I continually hear this argument from Calvinists regarding how they think we believe that salvation is based on "our own ability." Or that we teach that we believe in God "on our own." Or something of like that... What IS and what is NOT "of our own ability?" Can you breathe "on your own...

What specifically do you want to know? Here is a detailed post from another thread on this subject. Let me know if it doesn't answer your question:

Icon, where did Satan's intent to "become like God" originate? Did God come up with that intent and make Satan's nature so that he would certainly have that intent? Or did Satan come up with it on his own?

Where does Edwards and the Arminian divines say this, because the question was are they all in agreement. I'm not trying to divine and conquer. I'm trying to show you that God may allow it done without being the direct or immediate cause and some may take that as God "doing" it permissively...

Ok, so you agree that it was a "right choice," but would you affirm that it was a free choice, in that any believer is able to receive it, or must you be graced by God to accept it in the same manner you are graced by God to accept the gospel?

Cut from the same cloth I see. I love you and forgive you, but you should really be ashamed of this.

I wanted to give this a post of its own. Here are the things Iconoclast said that are a complete and utter misrepresentation of our views and our interaction on this board to a new comer seeking answers: You wouldn't have corrected that with a firm stance, if the accusation where on the other...

1. I did give you a straight answer. I told you that I believe both camps worship the same Christ but that we understand him differently. Obviously, I believe my camp understands him more correctly than yours, otherwise I'd still be in your camp. But, I'm not going to play your game of...

:laugh: That really did make me laugh out loud. I really hope they don't ban you because you entertain me. :thumbsup: As I said the first time, Christ is the same for both groups, just as he is the same for you and TomVols (as an example) even-though you disagree about some points in...

I did answer your question Aaron, and I think it is quite apparent to everyone what you are attempting to do here. Oh, and is the Christ of Southern Baptist, who baptize by immersion, different from the Christ of some Presbies? And what about the Christ of pre-millienialism versus the...

I agree. But to presume to much oversteps the revelation and moves into speculation. And I really doubt the speculations of finite beings about such infinite matters could ever lead us to a good place. Not to mention all the texts which speak of God's complete holiness and separateness from...

Here is a question to consider as you ponder this subject: If indeed Calvinism is true, in that God did supernaturally and effectually intervened to bring His elect to correct understanding of the gospel and belief in his Son, why didn't He likewise bring all his elect to the same correct and...

Not really. I think we both agree that all good things come from God. Did he give everyone the ability to reason? Does that mean everyone uses that ability in the same way or unto the same end? This is where the concept of responsibility (response-able) comes in. Then you are...

It's taught in Romans 1. The people referred to by Paul "knew God" in that they "clearly saw and understood" his divine qualities and eternal nature, thus they were without excuse for "trading that truth in for a lie." If the natural man can know God so as to be without excuse through this...