‘Your Faith Has Saved You’

[Protestant]

Jesus said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace." (Luke 7:50)

How often we have heard our Pelagian and Arminian friends use this verse to prove the power to believe in Christ is innate in all men to exercise or not, according to their free-will.

Although the origin of her faith is not mentioned in this verse, we understand Jesus was the object of her love.

The controversy between us and our adversaries centers on the origin of saving faith.

There is no controversy as to its object.

It is our contention that sound hermeneutics demands one pet Scripture not be used as the foundation of a major Bible doctrine.

The major Bible doctrine in question regards saving faith.

Is it the gift of God to men, or the gift of men to God?

Does salvation rest on the good use of free-will by man or the goodness and grace of God alone?

Before defining a doctrine using one pet verse the serious Bible student need examine other verses which may more clearly expound the doctrine in question.

We seek verses which give the clear, definitive origin of saving faith.

For this cause we must examine Matt. 16:13-17 which sets forth the foundational confession of all professing Christians:

And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

Had Jesus replied, “Blessed art thou Simon Barjona: thy faith hath saved thee,” our adversaries would have further cause to promote the doctrine of innate free- will saving faith.

However, Jesus clearly and authoritatively states the opposite to be true.

And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

The origin of Peter’s faith did not reside in himself.

Rather, the origin was of God the Father.

This vital Bible truth is expressed throughout the New Testament, including several references in the Old.

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. (John 6:44)

No man can come to Jesus by faith except the Father draw him by faith in Jesus.

The faith given by the Father saves all to whom it is given.

At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. (Matt. 11:25-27)

Saving faith is nothing less than supernatural revelation knowledge of Christ given to sinners according to the good pleasure of the Father.

So then it [salvation] is not of him that willeth, [the good use of free will is not a consideration in determining who is to be saved], nor of him that runneth [nor is human effort of any kind a consideration in determining who is to be saved], but of God that sheweth mercy [God’s inscrutable free-will is the determining factor as to whom He will save]. (Romans 9:16)

 

[steaver]

I have a friend who tells me all the time he believes Jesus is the Son of God, but he does not want to follow Him. God has revealed Christ unto him, but he refuses to call upon Jesus Christ for salvation.

 

[wpe3bql]

It's easy for a person to merely say that Jesus is the Son of God, but unless that person seeks to obey Jesus's commands, that person is about as guilty as what Christ said of the heathen people in Matthew 6:7 ---

"[Do not] use vain repetitions as the heathen do for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking."

More than likely, even Judas Iscariot probably said that he thought Jesus was God's Son, but what good did it do him?

An example of this would be for me to repeatedly proclaim that my bank account totals in the billions of dollars, but more than likely my bank would tell you that my actual bank account is, shall we say, "somewhat less than billions of dollars." :laugh:

Although our works as a Christian have nothing to do with the state of our standing before God, Jesus Christ Himself in John 14:15 said, "If ye love me, keep my commandments."

Likewise, the Apostle Paul stated in Ephesians 2:10. "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

Paul also wrote in Titus 2:14 of Jesus Christ was the One, "Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar [i.e., "purchased"] people, zealous of good works."

 

[InTheLight]

How often we have heard our Pelagian and Arminian friends use this verse to prove the power to believe in Christ is innate in all men to exercise or not, according to their free-will.

We seek verses which give the clear, definitive origin of saving faith.

Like these?

Matt.8:10 When Jesus heard this, he marveled and said to those who followed him, “Truly, I tell you, with no one in Israel have I found such faith.

Luke 7:9 When Jesus heard these things, he marveled at him, and turning to the crowd that followed him, said, “I tell you, not even in Israel have I found such faith.”

Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.” For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.

In these Gospel verses Jesus marveled that he "found faith" in the centurion. In Hebrews Enoch's faith "pleased God". If faith is a gift of God surely Jesus would not marvel at someone possessing something He himself would have given. If faith is a gift, why would God be pleased that Enoch had it, if He had given it to him?

 

[Protestant]

Like these?

Matt.8:10 When Jesus heard this, he marveled and said to those who followed him, “Truly, I tell you, with no one in Israel have I found such faith.

Luke 7:9 When Jesus heard these things, he marveled at him, and turning to the crowd that followed him, said, “I tell you, not even in Israel have I found such faith.”

Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.” For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.

In these Gospel verses Jesus marveled that he "found faith" in the centurion. In Hebrews Enoch's faith "pleased God". If faith is a gift of God surely Jesus would not marvel at someone possessing something He himself would have given. If faith is a gift, why would God be pleased that Enoch had it, if He had given it to him?

No answer will satisfy he whose mind is closed.

And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

'We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not mourn.'

Do I have your assurance that you will renounce your Pelagian/Arminian doctrines if I answer your objections?

 

[Protestant]

I have a friend who tells me all the time he believes Jesus is the Son of God, but he does not want to follow Him. God has revealed Christ unto him, but he refuses to call upon Jesus Christ for salvation.

Your friend is a liar. He hasn't a clue as to the identity of the true Christ.

 

[InTheLight]

No answer will satisfy he whose mind is closed.

And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

'We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not mourn.'

Do I have your assurance that you will renounce your Pelagian/Arminian doctrines if I answer your objections?

How can I renounce something I do not hold to?

>Insert strawman picture here.<

Besides, I've brought up these scriptures before and they have never been refuted. But go ahead and tell us all how Jesus was amazed to find faith in the centurion if He was the one giving him that gift to begin with.

 

[DHK]

No answer will satisfy he whose mind is closed.

And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

'We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not mourn.'

Do I have your assurance that you will renounce your Pelagian/Arminian doctrines if I answer your objections?

An admission you don't have a decent answer.

Your friend is a liar. He hasn't a clue as to the identity of the true Christ.

Calling someone out as a liar is another admission that you have no answer.

 

[Protestant]

An admission you don't have a decent answer.


Calling someone out as a liar is another admission that you have no answer.

If I answer the objections do I have your assurance you will renounce your Pelagian and Arminian doctrines?

In other words, unless you and 'Light' can honestly attest to having the fortitude to repent of your erroneous doctrines IF I answer the objections, I will offer the response of Jesus to Pilate's query, 'What is truth?'

The response of Jesus?

Silence.

 

[DHK]

If I answer the objections do I have your assurance you will renounce your Pelagian and Arminian doctrines?

In other words, unless you and 'Light' can honestly attest to having the fortitude to repent of your erroneous doctrines IF I answer the objections, I will offer the response of Jesus to Pilate's query, 'What is truth?'

The response of Jesus?

Silence.

You ought to know by now, I never renounce the truth.
Thus your continued silence in these posts.

 

[steaver]

Your friend is a liar. He hasn't a clue as to the identity of the true Christ.

My friend is only one of millions who are drawn by the Holy Spirit, having the truth of the gospel revealed unto them, yet because they love darkness rather than light they do not make the choice to receive Jesus Christ - born again. I have seen it played out dozens of times, the Spirit convicts and draws, but the person resist and walks away back into the world. We can only pray that the Lord does not turn them over and seal their fate. Yet God is longsuffering, not willing that any should perish.

 

[Protestant]

Except a man be born again he cannot see [discern, perceive] the Kingdom of God.

Our Pelagian and Arminian friends would have us believe that before they were born again – regenerated – they were able to see, discern, and perceive the Kingdom of God, thereby placing saving faith in its King.

Romans 14:17 explains the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Paul explains God’s Kingdom is one which is not observable by the natural senses.

Jesus explains God’s Kingdom is not discernible by the natural senses. In fact, He declares it impossible.

Yet our Pelagian and Arminian friends would dare contradict the infallible Word of God by proclaiming while in their natural state they placed saving faith in the indiscernible.

While in the flesh they perceived righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost without the regeneration of the Holy Ghost.

They offer themselves as living proof.

It is here we must draw the line.

Do we take the experience and say-so of fallible men as our measuring rod of eternal truth, or do we hold to sola Scriptura?

 

[steaver]

Except a man be born again he cannot see [discern, perceive] the Kingdom of God.

Our Pelagian and Arminian friends would have us believe that before they were born again – regenerated – they were able to see, discern, and perceive the Kingdom of God, thereby placing saving faith in its King.

Romans 14:17 explains the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Paul explains God’s Kingdom is one which is not observable by the natural senses.

Jesus explains God’s Kingdom is not discernible by the natural senses. In fact, He declares it impossible.

Yet our Pelagian and Arminian friends would dare contradict the infallible Word of God by proclaiming while in their natural state they placed saving faith in the indiscernible.

While in the flesh they perceived righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost without the regeneration of the Holy Ghost.

They offer themselves as living proof.

It is here we must draw the line.

Do we take the experience and say-so of fallible men as our measuring rod of eternal truth, or do we hold to sola Scriptura?

Where the Calvinist errors is in the conflating of the drawing with the converting. All men will be drawn to Christ, not all men will be converted - born-again.

 

[DHK]

Except a man be born again he cannot see [discern, perceive] the Kingdom of God.

Our Pelagian and Arminian friends would have us believe

Can you tell me which ones are Pelagian and Arminian.
If so I can tell you which ones are Augustinians, followers of infant baptism, and various other heresies.

 

[Protestant]

for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

These verses cited in Romans 3 deal with all men: Jew and Gentile in both OT and New.

Some of our Pelagian and Arminian friends would have us believe not all men are referenced here, neither do they believe all men all the time are referenced.

Some men do good. Some men do seek God, they declare.

To properly understand the context we need realize Paul is citing God’s POV.

From God’s holy, righteous, perfect POV all men all the time are, indeed, referenced.

True, this is a most damning condemnation of the entire human race.

Let us not diminish the seriousness of the condemnation, as do our Pelagian and Arminian adversaries when they cite Mother Teresa and other devils as do-gooders.

Our Judge is the Almighty and His judgment is true.

By re-stating these verses in terms of statistical probability we can reach the following conclusions:

1. The probability of a carnal Jew or Gentile being declared righteous by God is zero.

2. The probability of a carnal Jew or Gentile understanding the things of the Spirit of God is zero.

3. The probability that a carnal Jew or Gentile will, by his own volition, seek after the true God is zero.

4. The probability there are carnal Jews or Gentiles who have not gone out of the way is zero.

5. The probability there some profitable (to God) carnal Jews or Gentiles is zero.

6. The probability there are some Jews or Gentiles who do good in the eyes of God is zero.

Yet our Pelagian and Arminian opponents would have you believe they are the exception to the rule.

I ask, who do you believe: the infallible Word of God or the fallible word of men?

Zero means exactly that: zilch, nada...an impossibility.

Expressed in theological terms: the deviation from the original righteousness of Adam is 180 degrees, culminating in a total depravity of man's nature which permeates his every cell, including his heart, mind, soul and strength.

 

[Iconoclast]

Protestant

Except a man be born again he cannot see [discern, perceive] the Kingdom of God.

Our Pelagian and Arminian friends would have us believe that before they were born again – regenerated – they were able to see, discern, and perceive the Kingdom of God, thereby placing saving faith in its King.

Yes...a direct denial of scripture:wavey:

Romans 14:17 explains the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Paul explains God’s Kingdom is one which is not observable by the natural senses.

Jesus explains God’s Kingdom is not discernible by the natural senses. In fact, He declares it impossible.

Yet our Pelagian and Arminian friends would dare contradict the infallible Word of God by proclaiming while in their natural state they placed saving faith in the indiscernible.

Again and again....they lack proper perception:thumbsup:

While in the flesh they perceived righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost without the regeneration of the Holy Ghost.

They offer themselves as living proof

.

All such vain boasting is excluded from the Kingdom.

It is here we must draw the line.

and you have done just that:thumbs:

 

[Iconoclast]

Protestant

]for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

These verses cited in Romans 3 deal with all men: Jew and Gentile in both OT and New.

Some of our Pelagian and Arminian friends would have us believe not all men are referenced here, neither do they believe all men all the time are referenced.

Some men do good. Some men do seek God, they declare.

:laugh: I have seen this also!





To properly understand the context we need realize Paul is citing God’s POV.

From God’s holy, righteous, perfect POV all men all the time are, indeed, referenced.

True, this is a most damning condemnation of the entire human race.

Let us not diminish the seriousness of the condemnation, as do our Pelagian and Arminian adversaries when they cite Mother Teresa and other devils as do-gooders.

Our Judge is the Almighty and His judgment is true.

By re-stating these verses in terms of statistical probability we can reach the following conclusions:

1. The probability of a carnal Jew or Gentile being declared righteous by God is zero.

2. The probability of a carnal Jew or Gentile understanding the things of the Spirit of God is zero.

3. The probability that a carnal Jew or Gentile will, by his own volition, seek after the true God is zero.

4. The probability there are carnal Jews or Gentiles who have not gone out of the way is zero.

5. The probability there some profitable (to God) carnal Jews or Gentiles is zero.

6. The probability there are some Jews or Gentiles who do good in the eyes of God is zero.

Yet our Pelagian and Arminian opponents would have you believe they are the exception to the rule.

I ask, who do you believe: the infallible Word of God or the fallible word of men?

Zero means exactly that: zilch, nada...an impossibility.

Expressed in theological terms: the deviation from the original righteousness of Adam is 180 degrees, culminating in a total depravity of man's nature which permeates his every cell, including his heart, mind, soul and strength.

[/QUOTE]
:thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[DHK]

:laugh: I have seen this also!

Have you seriously? I don't think so. These kind of posts get deleted. Another warning.

To properly understand the context we need realize Paul is citing God’s POV.

From God’s holy, righteous, perfect POV all men all the time are, indeed, referenced.

True, this is a most damning condemnation of the entire human race.

Let us not diminish the seriousness of the condemnation, as do our Pelagian and Arminian adversaries when they cite Mother Teresa and other devils as do-gooders.

More name calling.

You show me "the Pelagian and Arminian adversaries" on the board and I will show you the baby-baptizing Augustinian worshipers. Okay?

 

[InTheLight]

Waiting for a refutation to my post about Jesus marveling at the faith He found in the Centurion...

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK

Have you seriously? I don't think so.

Someone might care to know what you think. I do not.

I can agree or disagree with what Protestant or anyone else says. That is the function of the board.

Protestant, OLd Regular, Rl Bosley, Rippon, Reformed,AA, and many others post things that I agree with.

looks like you do not enjoy their posts......good for you. I like what they say as they are quite biblical. They are honest and show a Christian ethic.

I am free to enter into what they say. I am also free to reject all manner of unbiblical teaching from whoever posts that.

You do not know what I have seen or not seen, so you are not in a position to comment on it.

These kind of posts get deleted. Another warning.

Warning of what? I agree with a poster and there is a warning and a threat of censorship?

You have trouble answering different people on here ...so now you look to control everyones posts?