‘Your Faith Has Saved You’

[Protestant]

The Bible does not use the term "justifying faith." It is faith that justifies.

The Bible does not use many theological terms, ‘Trinity’ being but one of many.

‘Free-will’ is yet another – one which you readily espouse.

Theologians have no difficulty in using the term ‘justifying faith.’

For example, Philip Melanchthon used the term in his Apology of the Augsburg Confession: ‘What is Justifying Faith?’
http://biblehub.com/library/melanchthon/the_apology_of_the_augsburg_confession/part_3_what_is_justifying.htm

Perhaps you know better than Melanchthon?

Can you bring forth another competent and well respected Christian theologian who, like you, denounces the term ‘justifying faith’ as unbiblical?

If not, your opinion is worthless according to the inerrant Word of God.

A single witness shall not suffice against a person for any crime or for any wrong in connection with any offense that he has committed. Only on the evidence of two witnesses or of three witnesses shall a charge be established. (Deut. 19:15) (ESV)

To Be Continued……………

 

[DHK]

It is your understanding of God's sovereignty that is skewed.

Go To Isaiah chapters 40-48 especially. His sovereignty is laid out very well there.

40:21-23
: Do you not know?
Have you not heard?
Has it not been told you from the beginning?
Have you not understood since the earth was founded?
He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,
and its people are like grasshoppers.
He stretches out the heavens like a canopy,
and spreads them out like a tent to live in.
He brings princes to naught
and reduces the rulers of this world to nothing.

42:8 : I am the Lord; that is my name!
I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols.

43:7,8 : everyone who is called by my name,
who I created for my glory,
whom I formed and made.
Lead out those who have eyes but are blind,
who have ears but are deaf.

10c-11 : Before me no god was formed,
nor will there be one after me.
I, even I, am the Lord,
and apart from me
there is no savior.

13: No one can deliver out of my hand.
When I act, who can reverse it?

44:6 : I am the first and the last;
apart from me there is no God.

45:5 : I am the Lord, and there is no other;
apart from me there is no God.

verse 7 : I form the light and creat darkness
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the Lord, do all these things.

verse 9: woe to him who quarrels with his Maker.

46:5: To whom will you compare me
or count me equal?
To whom will you liken me
that we may be compared?

verses 9,10 : I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like me.I make known the end from the beginning,
In am God, and there is none like me.
I make known the end from the beginning,
from ancient times, what is still to come.
I say: My purpose will stand,
and I will do all that I please.

11b : What I have said, that will I bring about;
what I have planed, that will I do.

48:11: For my own sake, I do this.
How can I I let myself be defamed?
I will not yield my glory to another.

11: I am the first and the last.

I believe the Scripture as much as you do, and in the sovereignty of God as much as you do, maybe more. I will repeat however, I believe your position on sovereignty is skewed.
Your view on God is that He is not as powerful that He could be.
The Calvinist weakens God via his view of sovereignty.

Man is not sovereign and in charge of his life. God rules over everything and everyone. There is no such doctrine as free-will taught in the Scripture. It is a concoction, an invention from the mind of sinful men.

Like I said, your weakened view of God's sovereignty has skewed your theology. God isn't big enough, strong enough to allow the free will of man within the confines of his sovereignty. This is anathema for the Calvinist even to think of, and yet it is what the Bible teaches.

That is an absurdity that any wordling would say.
Have you never heard of predestination? It is God who predestines --not man.

Predestination is applicable to the believer. It is not the unregenerate who is predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ, but rather the believer.

God delights in mercy. However the Word of God explicitly tells us in Romans 9 :I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

: Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

The Lord bears with great patience the objects of his wrath --prepared for destruction and He makes the riches of His glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory.

So clearly the Lord mercies some and not each and every person --past, present, and future.

God has mercy upon all. The rain falls upon the just and the unjust; the sun shines upon the just and the unjust.
Many of the Scripture you use, you choose to quote out of context and they deal with the history of Israel and do not apply to us today.

What about God's mercy:
2Ch 30:9 ... for the LORD your God is gracious and merciful, and will not turn away his face from you, if ye return unto him.

Neh 9:17 ... but thou art a God ready to pardon, gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and forsookest them not.

Neh 9:31 Nevertheless for thy great mercies' sake thou didst not utterly consume them, nor forsake them; for thou art a gracious and merciful God.

Psa 86:15 But thou, O Lord, art a God full of compassion, and gracious, longsuffering, and plenteous in mercy and truth.

Psa 111:4 He hath made his wonderful works to be remembered: the LORD is gracious and full of compassion.

Joe 2:13 And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil.

Jon 4:2... for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil.

The Calvinist doesn't understand mercy. He understands a God that not only allows the reprobate to go to the Lake of Fire, but directly causes the reprobate to go the Lake of Fire. To add injury to insult, "this God of mercy" He created them "reprobate" in the first place to be cast in the Lake of Fire. And yet you still see that as mercy! Horrendous. You have no idea what mercy is.

Your entire paragraph is a complete lie and you very well know it. Yet you persist in your old ways. Why do you not tell the truth? Telling the truth is characteristic of Christians.

Another Calvinist on this board was very proud that he was indeed a monergist, and very dogmatic that I was a synergist. I don't mind. I carefully looked into the terms. I agree with him. He, as a Calvinist, is definitely a monergist with an abandonment of responsibility to God. That is what monergism is. "Mono"--one way--From God to you. You have no responsibility. You have ceded it all to God.
It is (for an example), "blame everything on God" ploy.

 

[DHK]

The Bible does not use many theological terms, ‘Trinity’ being but one of many.

‘Free-will’ is yet another – one which you readily espouse.

Theologians have no difficulty in using the term ‘justifying faith.’

You are the first one to use it that I remember. I have rejected the term "saving faith." Why shouldn't I reject "justifying faith"? Do you have a problem understanding what faith is? Faith is faith. There is only one kind of faith. It is confidence in the word of another.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.
Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God (Rom.5:1).

For example, Philip Melanchthon used the term in his Apology of the Augsburg Confession: ‘What is Justifying Faith?’
http://biblehub.com/library/melanchthon/the_apology_of_the_augsburg_confession/part_3_what_is_justifying.htm

Perhaps you know better than Melanchthon?

Can you bring forth another competent and well respected Christian theologian who, like you, denounces the term ‘justifying faith’ as unbiblical?

If not, your opinion is worthless according to the inerrant Word of God.

This is a debate board, not a know your theologians board. Frankly I don't care about the Lutheran theologians and what they did or thought. The 66 books I do care about are contained in the canon of scripture which we have today. I use my time studying them, not Melanchthon whom I have no time for.

A single witness shall not suffice against a person for any crime or for any wrong in connection with any offense that he has committed. Only on the evidence of two witnesses or of three witnesses shall a charge be established. (Deut. 19:15) (ESV)

To Be Continued……………

You really are offended aren't you. Yes, my witness is the Bible.
Put "justifying faith" in a concordance (software or hardcopy) and see what kind of results you get. It isn't there, and that is my witness. You need more than one witness? All the Bibles in the world will be my witness. Now you have a great multitude. Use the Bible; not an old German, Lutheran Reformer.

 

[Protestant]

You are the first one to use it that I remember. I have rejected the term "saving faith." Why shouldn't I reject "justifying faith"? Do you have a problem understanding what faith is? Faith is faith. There is only one kind of faith. It is confidence in the word of another.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.
Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God (Rom.5:1).


This is a debate board, not a know your theologians board. Frankly I don't care about the Lutheran theologians and what they did or thought. The 66 books I do care about are contained in the canon of scripture which we have today. I use my time studying them, not Melanchthon whom I have no time for.


You really are offended aren't you. Yes, my witness is the Bible.
Put "justifying faith" in a concordance (software or hardcopy) and see what kind of results you get. It isn't there, and that is my witness. You need more than one witness? All the Bibles in the world will be my witness. Now you have a great multitude. Use the Bible; not an old German, Lutheran Reformer.

Your reply reveals several important character traits:

1. You consider no other teachers or theologians views when preaching your 'unique' doctrines.
2. By so doing you accuse God of wasting your time by placing teachers/theologians in the Body, for you have nothing to learn from them, though they are universally revered as outstanding men of God through centuries of Christian witness.
3. You consider the Body of orthodox Christian leaders through the centuries wrong in recognizing Melanchthon's extraordinary contributions toward understanding Scripture.
4. In your mind the Holy Spirit has given you unprecedented knowledge and understanding of Bible truths far surpassing that of all mortals before you.
5. Therefore, your word is sufficient an authority to settle any question of grammar, linguistics, doctrine, as well as how, exactly, the future will unfold.

The scary part is you really believe you are all you think you are!

 

[SovereignGrace]

Your reply reveals several important character traits:

1. You consider no other teachers or theologians views when preaching your 'unique' doctrines.
2. By so doing you accuse God of wasting your time by placing teachers/theologians in the Body, for you have nothing to learn from them, though they are universally revered as outstanding men of God through centuries of Christian witness.
3. You consider the Body of orthodox Christian leaders through the centuries wrong in recognizing Melanchthon's extraordinary contributions toward understanding Scripture.
4. In your mind the Holy Spirit has given you unprecedented knowledge and understanding of Bible truths far surpassing that of all mortals before you.
5. Therefore, your word is sufficient an authority to settle any question of grammar, linguistics, doctrine, as well as how, exactly, the future will unfold.

The scary part is you really believe you are all you think you are!

••Carnal faith
••Carnal christianity
••God is not angry at the wicked; He is not even angry at Satan
••God has two promises: one for Israel one for the church
••Unregenerate people can seek God without His assistance


All of these DHK has advocated on here.

 

[Protestant]

It is your understanding of God's sovereignty that is skewed.

Go To Isaiah chapters 40-48 especially. His sovereignty is laid out very well there.

Brother Rippon:

Pastor DHK is an advocate of Open Theism.

From Theopedia:

Open theism, also called free will theism and openness theology, is the belief that God does not exercise meticulous control of the universe but leaves it "open" for humans to make significant choices (free will) that impact their relationships with God and others. A corollary of this is that God has not predetermined the future...... Open Theists argue that people are created to be in meaningful relationships with God and others and as moral beings must have the ability to make real, responsible choices in their lives. Open Theists argue that this cannot be accomplished as long as God exercises exhaustive control of the universe or predetermines the future because this would remove humanity's free will. http://www.theopedia.com/open-theism

 

[Protestant]

••Carnal faith
••Carnal christianity
••God is not angry at the wicked; He is not even angry at Satan
••God has two promises: one for Israel one for the church
••Unregenerate people can seek God without His assistance


All of these DHK has advocated on here.

Amen, brother!

We can also add Open Theism, the 'secret' Rapture, and the 'unique' doctrine that 'ekklesia' has one and only one meaning: the local assembly. He denies the existence of a universal church comprised of believers worldwide.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Uh oh. According to DHK's profile he is viewing this thread. Watch out for the hammer.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Uh oh. Now he is replying to this thread. Stop. Hammer time.

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK

You are the first one to use it that I remember. I have rejected the term "saving faith." Why shouldn't I reject "justifying faith"?

yes...you reject many truths

This is a debate board, not a know your theologians board. Frankly I don't care about the Lutheran theologians and what they did or thought.

We can tell by your posts....Tragically.

Learning from other men is a blessing designed by God.....

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

prov13

20 He that walketh with wise men shall be wise: but a companion of fools shall be destroyed

The 66 books I do care about are contained in the canon of scripture which we have today. I use my time studying them, not Melanchthon whom I have no time for.

Such vain boasting as if Melanchthon and other teachers did not study their bibles

You really are offended aren't you. Yes, my witness is the Bible.
Put "justifying faith" in a concordance (software or hardcopy) and see what kind of results you get. It isn't there, and that is my witness.

you are a false witness...look here:

His By Grace--"Saving Faith vs. False Faith"


gracesermons.com/hisbygrace/faith.html

... (or non saving) faith; ... definition of justifying and saving faith. ... to the saving of their souls. This faith is the work of the Spirit in ...
.

Saving Faith: Its Meaning and Its Object



www.eternallifeministries.org/lrs_faith.htm

For true saving faith to operate to the saving of our ... to come back to God in repentance and faith, and that God can be just in justifying every poor sinner ...


Pink Gems · About Our Ministry · Puritan Prayers · Inspirational Poems · Books & Articles

.

The Nature of Justifying Faith


wscal.edu/resource-center/resource/the-nature-of-justifying-faith

And disagreements about the character of justifying faith remain ... for justification, faith must be ... This is what theology refers to as a saving, justifying faith.
.

Justification (theology) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justification_(theology)


Saving faith is the knowledge of, acceptance of, ... "Agreement and Disagreement on Justification by Faith Alone" Concordia Theological Quarterly 65 (2001) ...
Biblical references ... ·
Early church and ... ·
Comparison of traditions
.

What Is Saving Faith? Conviction? Trust? Obedience?


gospelway.com/topics/salvation/saving_faith.php

What then is required in order for a person to "believe to the saving of the soul" (Hebrews 10:39)? Saving faith requires 3 things. First is conviction.
.

Saving Faith


www.amprpress.com/saving_faith.htm

What Is Saving Faith Gordon H. Clark The Trinity Foundation www.trinityfoundation.org . In the current controversy about justification by faith alone the question ...
.

Saving Faith - Grace to You


www.gty.org › Resources › Sermons

And I told you this morning I was going to preach on the subject of the nature of saving faith ... That kind of faith is distinctively called saving or justifying ...
.

Saving Faith - The Spurgeon Archive


spurgeon.org/sermons/1162.htm

Saving Faith. A Sermon Delivered on Lord's Day Morning, March 15, 1874, by C. H. SPURGEON, At the ... what does this teach us in reference to faith?
.


Related searches for justifying faith vs saving faith


Saving Faith Definition
What is a Saving Faith
What is True Saving Faith
Scriptures on Saving Faith
Saving Faith in the Bible
Intellectual Faith vs Saving Faith
Saving Faith in Christ
Does James Contradict Paul

 

[DHK]

••Carnal faith

Speaking of an unsaved person faith is neither carnal nor spiritual. Faith is faith.
If you have the idea that God gives anything spiritual to an unsaved person before he is actually saved, you are sadly mistaken. Does God give the unregenerate person spiritual gifts or the fruit of the Spirit? This is what you are advocating. It is a ludicrous position to take--very anti-biblical.

••Carnal christianity

This is straight out denial of scripture.
In 1Cor.3:1-4, four times Paul calls the Corinthians carnal.
In verse one he addresses them as brethren or believers in Christ as the word means.
In verse 16 he refers to them collectively as "the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God (that) dwelleth in you."

Yet the typical Calvinist denies that they are Christians. He denies they are carnal.
Paul calls them Carnal Christians. You deny both--a straight denial of Scripture, something we call unbelief.

••God is not angry at the wicked; He is not even angry at Satan

God is a God of love. You don't seem to understand that concept. Even in the most read and memorized verse in the world, you change the word "world" to mean "elect," which is a perversion of scripture. God so loved the world--all the world. God is not so angry that he not able to save any. You say he is. No wonder the unsaved would not choose such a religion you would advocate.
God is not an angry old man sitting in heaven ready to club someone over the head at his own whim and will. He is a God of love.
The God that Calvinism advocates is not a God of mercy, kindness, love, or compassion.
He not only allows the reprobate to go to the Lake of Fire, he causes them to go there, in fact (according to you) He created them for that very purpose. There is no mercy or love in that.

••God has two promises: one for Israel one for the church

God made a covenant (in fact more than one) with Israel. Some of those covenants and promises are still in effect. God always fulfills his promises. He would be a liar if he didn't. There are some promises still unfulfilled that are only pertinent to Israel and Israel alone. If you deny that Israel is a nation, and that God has made promises to them, IMO, you are simply calling God a liar, and obviously do not know the Scriptures very well.

There are other scriptures that pertain only to church, that is believers after the resurrection of Christ.
This can be seen very clearly in many different scriptures.

Revelation 21:12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
For all eternity God will differentiate between the church and Israel.
But perhaps for all eternity you will deny it. Is this true?

••Unregenerate people can seek God without His assistance

This is not my problem; it is yours. Again you wish to deny scripture.
Acts 17:27-30 tells unregenerate, Athenian idolaters to: seek God, find God, and then to repent. There it is, as plain as day. But you refuse to believe it.
With that I can't help you. It is called unbelief. Of course there are many other scriptures that tell us the same thing. But this one passage is good enough for now.

All of these DHK has advocated on here.

I believe the Bible. Do you?

 

[Protestant]

DHK



yes...you reject many truths



We can tell by your posts....Tragically.

Learning from other men is a blessing designed by God.....

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

prov13

20 He that walketh with wise men shall be wise: but a companion of fools shall be destroyed




Such vain boasting as if Melanchthon and other teachers did not study their bibles


you are a false witness...look here:

Amen, brother Icon. Perhaps, according to DHK, we should discard the theological terms 'saving grace' and 'sovereign grace.' In that regard, 'Amazing Grace' should also be stricken from our vocabulary.

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK.

Does God give the unregenerate person spiritual gifts or the fruit of the Spirit?

SG has said no such thing. He is not talking about spiritual gIfts, or the fruit of the Spirit at all...he was speaking of different kinds of faith...

You introduce the red herring leading to the classic strawman again,,,,try and stay on topic...you are off topic here.

This is what you are advocating.

he has not said this at all......post where he said anything like this...maybe I missed that post....post or now or apologize for this statement that once again is not true.

It is a ludicrous position to take--very anti-biblical.

What is ludicrous is you saying this when SG said no such thing....stop it, it is dishonest...

This is straight out denial of scripture.
In 1Cor.3:1-4, four times Paul calls the Corinthians carnal.
In verse one he addresses them as brethren or believers in Christ as the word means.
In verse 16 he refers to them collectively as "the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God (that) dwelleth in you."

You refused to listen to godly men open the truth of this passage...that is the only denial happening here.

Yet the typical Calvinist denies that they are Christians. He denies they are carnal.

nonsense...

Paul calls them Carnal Christians.

No he did not,,,you say that Paul did not.

You deny both--a straight denial of Scripture, something we call unbelief.

That belongs to you for not listening to those sermons offered to you.

God is a God of love. You don't seem to understand that concept.

SG understands God's love in truth. Why lie about him. He no where denies God's love.....SG...do you in any way deny God's love?

Even in the most read and memorized verse in the world, you change the word "world" to mean "elect," which is a perversion of scripture.

No he does not...once again a falsehood....show where he does was you falsely accuse him of...post it now

God so loved the world--all the world. God is not so angry that he not able to save any. You say he is. No wonder the unsaved would not choose such a religion you would advocate.

this is just part of your evil agenda

God is not an angry old man sitting in heaven ready to club someone over the head at his own whim and will.

Show where any Cal uses such vile language as you post about our Holy God.

He is a God of love.
The God that Calvinism advocates is not a God of mercy, kindness, love, or compassion.

Once again...you are not a spokesman for biblical calvinism. You show no grasp of it. You should step down as a moderator if all you want to do is attack what you cannot understand.

He not only allows the reprobate to go to the Lake of Fire, he causes them to go there, in fact (according to you) He created them for that very purpose. There is no mercy or love in that.

so are you saying reprobates will go to heaven? this is your false teaching that men send themselves to hell.

God made a covenant (in fact more than one) with Israel. Some of those covenants and promises are still in effect. God always fulfills his promises. He would be a liar if he didn't. There are some promises still unfulfilled that are only pertinent to Israel and Israel alone. If you deny that Israel is a nation, and that God has made promises to them, IMO, you are simply calling God a liar, and obviously do not know the Scriptures very well.

Jesus is the true israel...Isa 49;!-8

There are other scriptures that pertain only to church, that is believers after the resurrection of Christ.
This can be seen very clearly in many different scriptures.

dispensational error

Revelation 21:12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
For all eternity God will differentiate between the church and Israel.
But perhaps for all eternity you will deny it. Is this true?

Eph 2 declares one new man in Christ for all eternity

This is not my problem; it is yours. Again you wish to deny scripture.

no...he understands the passages unlike you.

Acts 17:27-30 tells unregenerate, Athenian idolaters to: seek God, find God, and then to repent. There it is, as plain as day.

another passage you miss...

But you refuse to believe it.
With that I can't help you. It is called unbelief.

Saying he is refuses to believe, or is in unbelief would be to question his salvation which is against board rules....

SG only does not believe your falsehoods, but he clearly trusts the God of the bible.

I believe the Bible. Do you?

He has professed Christ and he understands the bible. Any who understand salvation have no question about his beliefs as you shamefully suggest that he does not.

 

[Iconoclast]

Amen, brother Icon. Perhaps, according to DHK, we should discard the theological terms 'saving grace' and 'sovereign grace.' In that regard, 'Amazing Grace' should also be stricken from our vocabulary.

This is tragically unbelievable to watch as it unfolds....These lone ranger types are a law unto themselves and not accountable to anyone...

Your posts, Sg's posts, Biblicists posts, rippons, posts and many others he cannot begin to answer them....notice how everytime he makes up or invents things like;

do you believe the bible?
do you believe the trinity?
you have a works gospel
that is only for Israel,
you do not understand the context...etc

 

[Rippon]

This is tragically unbelievable to watch as it unfolds....These lone ranger types are a law unto themselves and not accountable to anyone...

Your posts, Sg's posts, Biblicists posts, rippons, posts and many others he cannot begin to answer them....notice how everytime he makes up or invents things like;

do you believe the bible?
do you believe the trinity?
you have a works gospel
that is only for Israel,
you do not understand the context...etc

DHK has said :
"Have you been regenerated? How do you know?"
"The Calvinist trail ends in death."
"Don't give me that election _ _ _ _."
"The God of Calvinism."
"[God] gives as much faith to the unbeliever as he gives to my dog."
"There is not one verse where God says he hates any person."
"What assurance do you have that you are one of the elect? Are you spiritually dead?"

 

[DHK]

DHK has said :

"What assurance do you have that you are one of the elect? Are you spiritually dead?"

Neither you nor Icon have ever answered or been able to answer that question have you? Are you absolutely sure you are one of the elect? How would you know?

 

[Rippon]

Are you absolutely sure you are one of the elect? How would you know?

Are you a believer DHK? Are you dead in your sins? Is your god, the God of the Bible? Do you know what a real Christian is? Have you been regenerated? How do you know? Why do you follow men such as Hunt and Cloud instead of the Bible? Have you put your faith in them? Don't let them be your idols --follow Christ instead.

How do like being on the receiving end of what you have dished out for more than a decade on the BB?

 

[DHK]

DHK.

Does God give the unregenerate person spiritual gifts or the fruit of the Spirit?

SG has said no such thing. He is not talking about spiritual gIfts, or the fruit of the Spirit at all...he was speaking of different kinds of faith...

You introduce the red herring leading to the classic strawman again,,,,try and stay on topic...you are off topic here.

Perhaps you are the one off topic? You sound confused. Actually, you sound like the campaign manager of a politician writing up negative attack ads and then cheering them on. You don't add anything to the conversation, just parrot what others say, especially the negative comments, editing out anything positive. Sad outlook you have.

To the subject at hand, however, you are confused.
Faith is faith.
There is no "justifying faith." Find the phrase in the Bible.
There is no "saving faith." Find the phrase in the Bible.
Since you can't, you will have to admit that faith is faith. Once you learn what faith is you will be better off and not so confused.

Salvation is by faith. Check Eph.2:8,9; Acts 16:30,31; 10:43; etc.
If you are not saved by faith, you are not saved at all.

God does not give you the faith to believe. He does not give the unregenerate faith to believe as SG claims. God does not do the believing for a person. That would be futile and ludicrous. Yet that is the typical claim of the Calvinist, and it has no scriptural basis.
Show me the scripture where it says God gives faith to the unregenerate.
Can't do it.

Show me one example of a person who is regenerated and yet unsaved.
Can't do it.

Show me a person in the Bible who has God's Spirit because of regeneration, but is not saved. Can't do it.

You see, it is obvious that faith precedes regeneration, and not the other way around. If it didn't you would be able to prove it via answering the questions I just posed to you. But you have no answers.

Faith doesn't come from God. In the Bible, if faith must come from God it comes in the form of a spiritual gift or as the fruit of Spirit, neither of which He would ever give to the unregenerate. So God does not give faith to the unregenerate. He does not give His spiritual gifts to the unsaved. But yet the Calvinists demand that he does. How ridiculous a theology!!

Where does faith come from.
The Bible says that faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.
It never says it comes via regeneration.
It says it comes through hearing the Word of God. That is the only source that the Bible says faith comes from.

In order to be born again one must hear the Word, the Gospel.
Check out 1Pet.1:23-25.
But my guess is that you will reject the scripture. Am I right?

 

[DHK]

Are you a believer DHK? Are you dead in your sins? Is your god, the God of the Bible? Do you know what a real Christian is? Have you been regenerated? How do you know? Why do you follow men such as Hunt and Cloud instead of the Bible? Have you put your faith in them? Don't let them be your idols --follow Christ instead.

How do like being on the receiving end of what you have dished out for more than a decade on the BB?

My testimony can be found all over this board. In recent days you referred to it. Most people here know how I came to the Lord. It is no secret. I gladly share my testimony.
But there are some here that are so secretive one wonders if they even have a testimony. That being said, how do they know they are of the elect?

 

[SovereignGrace]

Speaking of an unsaved person faith is neither carnal nor spiritual. Faith is faith.
If you have the idea that God gives anything spiritual to an unsaved person before he is actually saved, you are sadly mistaken. Does God give the unregenerate person spiritual gifts or the fruit of the Spirit? This is what you are advocating. It is a ludicrous position to take--very anti-biblical.

This is straight out denial of scripture.
In 1Cor.3:1-4, four times Paul calls the Corinthians carnal.
In verse one he addresses them as brethren or believers in Christ as the word means.
In verse 16 he refers to them collectively as "the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God (that) dwelleth in you."

Yet the typical Calvinist denies that they are Christians. He denies they are carnal.
Paul calls them Carnal Christians. You deny both--a straight denial of Scripture, something we call unbelief.


God is a God of love. You don't seem to understand that concept. Even in the most read and memorized verse in the world, you change the word "world" to mean "elect," which is a perversion of scripture. God so loved the world--all the world. God is not so angry that he not able to save any. You say he is. No wonder the unsaved would not choose such a religion you would advocate.
God is not an angry old man sitting in heaven ready to club someone over the head at his own whim and will. He is a God of love.
The God that Calvinism advocates is not a God of mercy, kindness, love, or compassion.
He not only allows the reprobate to go to the Lake of Fire, he causes them to go there, in fact (according to you) He created them for that very purpose. There is no mercy or love in that.

God made a covenant (in fact more than one) with Israel. Some of those covenants and promises are still in effect. God always fulfills his promises. He would be a liar if he didn't. There are some promises still unfulfilled that are only pertinent to Israel and Israel alone. If you deny that Israel is a nation, and that God has made promises to them, IMO, you are simply calling God a liar, and obviously do not know the Scriptures very well.

There are other scriptures that pertain only to church, that is believers after the resurrection of Christ.
This can be seen very clearly in many different scriptures.

Revelation 21:12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
For all eternity God will differentiate between the church and Israel.
But perhaps for all eternity you will deny it. Is this true?

This is not my problem; it is yours. Again you wish to deny scripture.
Acts 17:27-30 tells unregenerate, Athenian idolaters to: seek God, find God, and then to repent. There it is, as plain as day. But you refuse to believe it.
With that I can't help you. It is called unbelief. Of course there are many other scriptures that tell us the same thing. But this one passage is good enough for now.

I believe the Bible. Do you?

I believe every word in God's bible, and unlike you, every verse belongs to me. I do not believe in your grotesque wrangling, twisting, mangling, fragmenting of God's word.

You say that some verses do not apply to us, but to Israel and their restoration. I've got some news for you, mon ami , ~2,000 years ago Israel was restored by a Man hanging, bleeding, and dying, on an old rugged cross and was resurrected and ascended to the Father. Israel has ALREADY been restored. :thumbsup:

You are a poison pill that your flock ingest on a routine basis. My prayers go to them to flee from your vile teachings.