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1 Cor. 1 and God's calling

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Isaiah40:28, Oct 19, 2007.

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  1. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    No.

    Christ 'kept' them all till all things be fulfilled. When Judas did that which was to be fulfilled then need to 'keep' him from death was no longer valid. He fulfilled Gods purpose for which he was given to Christ.

    The 'perishing' references the fact that his physical death was synonamous with his spiritual one.

    He rejected the truth but was not allowed to leave this plane of existence until he had fulfilled the purposes of God for his own life here and now.

    All people whether saved or not are here for and to do the purposes of God, while in tandom God knowing who will be of faith and not, that all things result to and for His Glory.
     
    #61 Allan, Oct 19, 2007
  2. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Absolutely, that is why he was chosen. But understand, I am not saying he was always a son of perdition and was not chose of God from the beginning to betray the Lord.
    I just posted above, I believe he did. I have no problem what so ever believing that God chose some from the beginning to carry out His plan of Salvation.
     
    #62 Brother Bob, Oct 19, 2007
  3. Isaiah40:28

    Isaiah40:28 New Member

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    I don't think "kept" is the word that the John 17:12 passage hinges on.
    I think it's the phrase rendered here:
    If you look back to the beginning of John 17 and notice verse 6 where the phrase is first used in the chapter, it seems that Jesus has a group within the 12 that He refers to as "those you gave me".
    The ones that the Father gave obeyed His word. Judas did not obey the word, even though he appeared to for a while.
    So Jesus' words in verse 12 about those that the Father gave Him would appear to exclude Judas which is why Judas was not kept, but was lost.
    He never was given to Jesus from the Father as a true son.
    He was chosen because of his sonship with Satan.
     
    #63 Isaiah40:28, Oct 19, 2007
  4. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    Sorry I misread you previous post and inverted your meaning.

    YES, Jesus is speaking physically and NOT spirirtually regarding 'kept'.
     
    #64 Allan, Oct 19, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 19, 2007
  5. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Amen Isaiah40:28

    Back to bed for me.
     
    #65 Brother Bob, Oct 19, 2007
  6. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    Cool! I'm continually amazed at how much we know about things scripture doesn't say anything about.
     
    #66 npetreley, Oct 19, 2007
  7. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    The son of perdition is included in that...
    Jhn 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
     
    #67 webdog, Oct 19, 2007
  8. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    1. Judas had not yet betrayed Jesus.

    2. So the physical keeping from harm is synonymous with spiritual keeping from harm. Is this really your hermeneutics, that you have to somehow spiritual and literalize when it seems convenient to you?
     
    #68 TCGreek, Oct 19, 2007
  9. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    Essentially, I have no problem with this reading.
     
    #69 TCGreek, Oct 19, 2007
  10. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    that the scripture might be fulfilled
     
    #70 Brother Bob, Oct 19, 2007
  11. Isaiah40:28

    Isaiah40:28 New Member

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    John17:11
    "Protect them by the power of your name so that they may be one as we are one" is a prayer of physical protection??
     
    #71 Isaiah40:28, Oct 19, 2007
  12. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Since the other 11 didn't believe in Christ until his resurrection, I'm inclined to believe that if Judas had not hung himself, he too would have believed along with the other 11.
     
    #72 webdog, Oct 19, 2007
  13. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    So Christ chose one or took one unto Himself who was not given Him by the Father?
     
    #73 Allan, Oct 19, 2007
  14. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    This is not speaking to the meaning of the word 'kept'.
     
    #74 Allan, Oct 19, 2007
  15. Isaiah40:28

    Isaiah40:28 New Member

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    That's why I said he "appeared to obey the word".
    His sonship was revealed for what it was, not true sonship.
     
    #75 Isaiah40:28, Oct 19, 2007
  16. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    And there goes what was prophesied of Judas in the OT!
     
    #76 TCGreek, Oct 19, 2007
  17. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    But if your meaning of kept is maintained this is the obvious conclusion. Are you bailing out on the meaning you have assigned to kept?
     
    #77 TCGreek, Oct 19, 2007
  18. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    What was prophesied was the foretelling of future events. Prophecy is nothing more than telling what will take place. Prophecy was fulfilled. The "hows" are what is unclear.
     
    #78 webdog, Oct 19, 2007
  19. Isaiah40:28

    Isaiah40:28 New Member

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    So why in the NIV is "protect" used in verse 11 for spiritual protection and then in verse 12 Jesus says, "while I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe"?

    Jesus was their bodyguard?
     
    #79 Isaiah40:28, Oct 19, 2007
  20. Isaiah40:28

    Isaiah40:28 New Member

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    Depends on what you mean by"took one unto Himself".
    As a disciple, yes.
    As a true son, no.
     
    #80 Isaiah40:28, Oct 19, 2007
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