1 Cor. 1 and God's calling

[webdog]

Again, we agree in principle, but we part ways in what this looks like.

Something else I thought of is God elected Judas, hand picked by Christ. How could it have been better if Judas had never been born if Christ handpicked him? Both he and Abram were called by God to follow him, but only Abraham was deemed righteous. What was the factor?

 

[TCGreek]

Something else I thought of is God elected Judas, hand picked by Christ. How could it have been better if Judas had never been born if Christ handpicked him? Both he and Abram were called by God to follow him, but only Abraham was deemed righteous. What was the factor?

1. I know my Calvinists brethren have offered several conclusions on Judas, but I must admit that I find the fate of Judas to be a difficult one to handle at this time for me.

2. I can only go with what the Scripture says and leave it at that:

"While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled" (John 17:12).

3. At face value, even this text seems to overturn eternal security, so we must seek better explanations from the whole of Scripture.

 

[webdog]

I think the explanation is the fact even though God elects...as with Judas and Abram...the ability to have faith is real, and required from us.

 

[TCGreek]

I think the explanation is the fact even though God elects...as with Judas and Abram...the ability to have faith is real, and required from us.

Of course, faith is real and required from us! But who is the source of all true faith?

 

[Isaiah40:28]

I have a serious question for you.

Did you pray for Mr. Dawkins when the Holy Spirit urged you to?

I ask because in the above IT LOOKS LIKE, the Holy Spirit urged you to pray for him 'that the Lord might save him yet', and then your personal view came in conflict with the Spirit of God as to who can be saved or not.

IT APPEARS you left off praying for him to re-affirm your Calvinistic view of what you hold, instead of praying for him and THEN going back to see if your view is correct which came in conflict with the urging of the Spirit.

Please understand, I am only asking because of HOW you set this forth and I am 'hoping' you prayed for Mr. Dawkins because I know in reading your post it urged me to.

I would like to say that maybe, just MAYBE the verse which came to your mind was God trying to showing WHY you need to pray for Him, or better HOW to pray for him.

But I am no prophet, so it makes no real matter what is between you and God.

I don't really feel like explaining all this to you, but for the sake of others reading these posts I will.

The reason this passage came to mind upon thinking about Mr. Dawkins is that it speaks about kinds of people who are saved.
Verse 26 says, "not many of you were wise by human standards, not many were influential, not many were of noble birth", so apparantly the Christians in Corinth were like most of us. Common people who are not in high places of influence.
Richard Dawkins is currently in a place of influence and is considered wise by many in this world.
Therefore I recognize that while God certainly does have His children in "high places" it's not apparantly what we typically we see.
I think as Christians we should be praying for the salvation of those who have great influence in all circles, certainly government officials and others in authority.
I even pray for Hollywood celebrities as their names come my way.
I often pray for anybody who makes the CNN homepage and appears to need Christ.
I never ever limit who God can and will save, after all he saved me and I know how terrible my sin is.
My views on salvation match my prayers. I ask God to change a person's heart from a heart that despises Him to a heart that desires Him and since I know that He does this, I pray with the knowledge that if it is His will, then He will answer that prayer.

 

[Isaiah40:28]

I think the explanation is the fact even though God elects...as with Judas and Abram...the ability to have faith is real, and required from us.

You are equating the election of Judas with the election of Abraham?

 

[Isaiah40:28]

1. I know my Calvinists brethren have offered several conclusions on Judas, but I must admit that I find the fate of Judas to be a difficult one to handle at this time for me.

2. I can only go with what the Scripture says and leave it at that:

"While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled" (John 17:12).

3. At face value, even this text seems to overturn eternal security, so we must seek better explanations from the whole of Scripture.

What part of Judas' fate do you find difficult?

 

[TCGreek]

What part of Judas' fate do you find difficult?

Christ chose him, yet he was the son of perdition. I don't think he just happened to slip into the 12; in fact, Matt. 10 proves otherwise.

 

[Allan]

I don't really feel like explaining all this to you, but for the sake of others reading these posts I will.

The reason this passage came to mind upon thinking about Mr. Dawkins is that it speaks about kinds of people who are saved.
Verse 26 says, "not many of you were wise by human standards, not many were influential, not many were of noble birth", so apparantly the Christians in Corinth were like most of us. Common people who are not in high places of influence.
Richard Dawkins is currently in a place of influence and is considered wise by many in this world.
Therefore I recognize that while God certainly does have His children in "high places" it's not apparantly what we typically we see.
I think as Christians we should be praying for the salvation of those who have great influence in all circles, certainly government officials and others in authority.
I even pray for Hollywood celebrities as their names come my way.
I often pray for anybody who makes the CNN homepage and appears to need Christ.
I never ever limit who God can and will save, after all he saved me and I know how terrible my sin is.
My views on salvation match my prayers. I ask God to change a person's heart from a heart that despises Him to a heart that desires Him and since I know that He does this, I pray with the knowledge that if it is His will, then He will answer that prayer.

All I wanted to know is - Did you pray for him as the Spirit urged you?

I didn't need all of that, but do thank you for elaborating.

 

[Isaiah40:28]

Christ chose him, yet he was the son of perdition. I don't think he just happened to slip into the 12; in fact, Matt. 10 proves otherwise.

Yes, Christ chose him but for what purpose?

 

[Brother Bob]

Christ chose him, yet he was the son of perdition. I don't think he just happened to slip into the 12; in fact, Matt. 10 proves otherwise.

I think Judas was chosen for what he was, a son of perdition, so as to carry out the plan of God. I don't know when Judas became a "son of perdition" but I do think he was chosen for that purpose.

BBob,

 

[TCGreek]

I think Judas was chosen for what he was, a son of perdition, so as to carry out the plan of God. I don't know when Judas became a "son of perdition" but I do think he was chosen for that purpose.

BBob,

1. Judas was conceived, nursed, grew up, went to school, learned a trade, chosen by Jesus for the sole purpose of being the son of perdition.

2. And BBob, you are not a hyper-Calvinist? What is preventing you from becoming one?

3. What other choice Judas had but to become the son of perdition when the clock struck midnight?

 

[Amy.G]

This scripture seems to speak to God's choice of Judas:

Rom 9:17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH."
Rom 9:18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.

God chooses based on His purposes.

 

[Brother Bob]

1. Judas was conceived, nursed, grew up, went to school, learned a trade, chosen by Jesus for the sole purpose of being the son of perdition.

2. And BBob, you are not a hyper-Calvinist? What is preventing you from becoming one?

3. What other choice Judas had but to become the son of perdition when the clock struck midnight?

I also believe the Apostles were a part of God's plan. I also believe John the Baptist was a part of God's plan. I also believe that Apostle Paul was a part of God's plan. But in due time.

 

[TCGreek]

I also believe the Apostles were a part of God's plan. I also believe John the Baptist was a part of God's plan. I also believe that Apostle Paul was a part of God's plan. But in due time.

Did Judas have choice but to be the son of perdition?

 

[TCGreek]

This scripture seems to speak to God's choice of Judas:

Rom 9:17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH."
Rom 9:18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.

God chooses based on His purposes.

Did these biblical characters have a choice?

 

[Brother Bob]

Did Judas have choice but to be the son of perdition?

I think so or the scripture would be false. "Time and chance has happened to all".

He was the devil's servant, maybe one of his ministers or angels, I don't know.

I think he was chosen because he was "the son of perdition", not going to be.

 

[TCGreek]

I think so or the scripture would be false. "Time and chance has happened to all".

I think he was chosen because he was "the son of perdition", not going to be.

1. So, it's a harmony of God's sovereignty and human responsibility that has given us the son of perdition.

2. What does that look like?

 

[Amy.G]

Did these biblical characters have a choice?

It seems to me that if God decided to harden your heart, you wouldn't have much choice about it. If He decides to show you mercy, He does it without your permission. He does what He wills.

 

[Brother Bob]

1. So, it's a harmony of God's sovereignty and human responsibility that has given us the son of perdition.

What is the difference in him and every lost person. We either are the servant of God or the servant of the devil, right??