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1 John 5:10-11.

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37818

Well-Known Member
37, you and I are called to persevere in the faith.
Huh? That makes no sense. John 10:27-29, ". . . And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. . . ." God who does the saving does the keeping.
 

AustinC

Well-Known Member
Huh? That makes no sense. John 10:27-29, ". . . And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. . . ." God who does the saving does the keeping.
So, you have never met a self proclaimed Christian who wasn't actually a Christian and then left the church?
The Apostles tell us there were many who did this in the early church.

Indeed, those whom God has made alive, he keeps alive. But, neither you nor I actually know who is truly alive and who is faking it. We leave that into God's hand and we warn those in the church to check themselves to see if they are truly in the faith. This is why we persevere.

Are you one of the folks that imagines if you just say the "magic" sinners prayer it makes you a Christian? I met an SBC pastor who teaches that. He has a whole church of dysfunctional attendees who are still drug addicts, but they said the prayer so they're good.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
But did He pay for the unbelievers sin ? Those who never believe and die in their sins ?

BF you keep playing the same old song and never listen to the words. You really need to start trusting the bible, it should be your authority. You hold your calvinism over the bible and that calls into question a number of your beliefs.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Don’t cha know God is just sitting there on His throne just hoping man will believe.


Not really!!

the Bible NEVER declares such a God

Mat 11:28 Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
Mat 11:30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light."

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

God does want all to come to repentance and He even calls out top them to come to Him. So I guess He is waiting for man to respond to His offer of salvation, you know that one were told of in Rom 1:16 "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes,..." The same one that we have to hear and believe Eph 1:13 "In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,"

So you are right God is not just sitting there He is actually reaching out and inviting us to trust in Him and be saved through faith in His son, Christ Jesus.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
I haven't avoided it at all. I have shown you the entire chapter and highlighted that a person must be born again before they can believe. So I ask you this. Can you "born" yourself to believe or must God re-born you before you can believe?
John tells you in the entire chapter as well as in John 3. Both corroborate perfectly with Ephesians 2.

Therefore, if you aren't born again, you cannot believe, and you call God a liar.

"Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son."

Note that God gives eternal life. You don't choose it.

It's time for you to admit you never chose God, 37.

Austin I think you need a new bible or you need to learn how to read
1Jn 5:1 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him.
 

37818

Well-Known Member
So, you have never met a self proclaimed Christian who wasn't actually a Christian and then left the church?
I know of such. But never personally knew any of them. Except one.
Genuine Christians actually know God. John17:3, Romans 8:9, 1 John 5:9-10, etc.
 

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
BF you keep playing the same old song and never listen to the words. You really need to start trusting the bible, it should be your authority. You hold your calvinism over the bible and that calls into question a number of your beliefs.
But did He pay for the unbelievers sin ? Those who never believe and die in their sins ? Yes or No please
 

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Austin I think you need a new bible or you need to learn how to read
1Jn 5:1 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him.
That means they believed because they had been born of God. Believing in the True Son of God, not a false jesus, is the result of being born of God, regeneration before Faith.
 

37818

Well-Known Member
That means they believed because they had been born of God. Believing in the True Son of God, not a false jesus, is the result of being born of God, regeneration before Faith.
No. 1 John 5:1 only affirms that the faith is on going. See agian and be reminded Ephesians 1:13-14, ". . . In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. . . ."
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
But did He pay for the unbelievers sin ? Those who never believe and die in their sins ? Yes or No please

BF do you have a reading problem? I have pointed out scripture over and over but you just will not accept what it says.

Lets try this one last time
Rom 5:6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
1Ti 2:6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,

And why did He do this
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

BF you never seem to believe anything that I say so maybe you will believe what the bible says, but I doubt that you will. If the bible is not your authority, which seems to be the case for you BF, then you are lost.
 

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
No. 1 John 5:1 only affirms that the faith is on going. See agian and be reminded Ephesians 1:13-14, ". . . In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. . . ."
Again believing on Jesus is the result of having been born again !
 

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
BF do you have a reading problem? I have pointed out scripture over and over but you just will not accept what it says.

Lets try this one last time
Rom 5:6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
1Ti 2:6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,

And why did He do this
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

BF you never seem to believe anything that I say so maybe you will believe what the bible says, but I doubt that you will. If the bible is not your authority, which seems to be the case for you BF, then you are lost.
But did He pay for the unbelievers sin ? Those who never believe and die in their sins ? Yes or No please
 

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
BF you are just showing that you have a serious lack of comprehension skills. You are unable to read a simple sentence. Your calvinism requires that you twist clear scripture to fit your false narrative.

You need to fall on your knees and pray, asking God to forgive you for the abuse that you have done to His Holy word. How can you call yourself a Christian and then ignore what scripture says?
Believing in the True Son of God, not a false jesus, is the result of being born of God, regeneration before Faith.
 

AustinC

Well-Known Member
I know of such. But never personally knew any of them. Except one.
Genuine Christians actually know God. John17:3, Romans 8:9, 1 John 5:9-10, etc.
Indeed, they know God because it is God who caused them to be born again.
37,why is it that you refuse to acknowledge that God chose to cause you to be born again?
Why do you lift up yourself as the chooser instead of the chosen?
 

AustinC

Well-Known Member
But did He pay for the unbelievers sin ? Those who never believe and die in their sins ? Yes or No please
This is the heart of the question. General Redemption would say yes. Yet, at the same time say no.
Yes, but no.
Yes Jesus paid for all unbelievers sins. No, the payment is not effective until one chooses to believe.

Those who hold this view are blind to the contradiction this presents as it reduces the power of God and increases the power of man.
 

37818

Well-Known Member
Indeed, they know God because it is God who caused them to be born again.
37,why is it that you refuse to acknowledge that God chose to cause you to be born again?
Why do you lift up yourself as the chooser instead of the chosen?
What part of God being solely the one who does the saving being solely the one who does the keeping do you not understand?
 

37818

Well-Known Member
This is the heart of the question. General Redemption would say yes. Yet, at the same time say no.
Yes, but no.
Yes Jesus paid for all unbelievers sins. No, the payment is not effective until one chooses to believe.

Those who hold this view are blind to the contradiction this presents as it reduces the power of God and increases the power of man.
1 John 5:10, ". . . he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. . . ."
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member

Alan it looks like you need basic read skills enhancement also.
1Jn 5:1 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him.

Notice the order believe then born of God just like Ephesians 1:13 "In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed..."

It really is not the complicated if you would just trust what the bible says. The bible is to be your authority not calvinism.
 
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