1 John 5:10-11.

[Silverhair]

First, you have not answered. You have danced around the question. In so doing I take your answer to be "No" to this question:
Do you declare that God chose you and caused you to be born again?

I perceive your answer is "No."
You will not declare that God chose you, but you do believe you have been born again...after you asked God to do so.

Therefore you are the commander of God and he does your bidding.

So, no, you never answered the question at all, but you have danced around it to avoid giving God the glory for having chose you even while you were wretched in your sins.

37 notice how Austin always accuses you of not answering his questions even when you do. For the calvinists on here if one does not say what they want then the question has not been answered. I found the same problem with BF and Austin before.

 

[AustinC]

Sliverhair can't quote where 37 answered because it's not found anywhere.

 

[37818]

What part of 1 John 5:9-13 do you not understand? I know God and have eternal life. I believe in God's Christ.

My answer is Ephesians 1:4.

 

[AustinC]

What part of 1 John 5:9-13 do you not understand? I know God and have eternal life. I believe in God's Christ.

My answer is Ephesians 1:4.

How does Ephesians 1:4 and 1 John 5:9-13 answer the question? Come on, 37, quit trying to be elusive. The question is whether you believe God chose you and caused you to be born again.

In a different thread you claim that it was your cognitive reasoning that caused you to be born again. Is that what Ephesians 1:4 and 1 John 5:9-13 teach?

 

[Silverhair]

Sliverhair can't quote where 37 answered because it's not found anywhere.

That you continue to ignore the answer that you do not like does not mean the question has not been answered.

 

[AustinC]

Sliverhair with no answer and just cryptic thoughts. That is the very core of it. Empty and void of any substance.

Notice no explanation of either prooftext and no capacity to answer my simple question.

 

[37818]

How does Ephesians 1:4 and 1 John 5:9-13 answer the question?

Restate your question. I will not answer a complex question by a yes or no.
Ephesians 1:4 God chooses before the foundation of the world.
1 John 5:9-13 explains how one can know one has eternal life.

 

[Silverhair]

Sliverhair with no answer and just cryptic thoughts. That is the very core of it. Empty and void of any substance.

Notice no explanation of either prooftext and no capacity to answer my simple question.

Austin, is the bible your authority, a simple YES or NO will suffice. If you say YES then why do you not believe what it says?

God chooses those for salvation that have trusted in His son. If you do not freely trust in His son then God does not choose you for salvation. Now understanding that, we would have to conclude that since man cannot save himself and that God only saves those that trust in His son then God by His grace causes us to be saved because we believe. Just like so many verses in the bible tell us
Ephesians 1:13 "In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,..."
Romans 10:9-10
"that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."
Ephesians 2:8
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,..."

But this is not what a calvinist believes as scripture is not their authority.

 

[AustinC]

Restate your question. I will not answer a complex question by a yes or no.
Ephesians 1:4 God chooses before the foundation of the world.
1 John 5:9-13 explains how one can know one has eternal life.

This is your most direct answer. I appreciate it.
God has chosen us and His choice of us is from before the foundation of the world.
1 John 5 tells us (as does John 3 and Ephesians 2) that God caused us to be born again and we know this rebirth is true because we have been given faith to believe it.
Somehow, however, I think you may disagree with my second assertion as you seem to want to be the cause since you promote your own capacity to reason as the primary reason why you believe.

 

[37818]

Somehow, however, I think you may disagree with my second assertion as you seem to want to be the cause since you promote your own capacity to reason as the primary reason why you believe.

Yes, I disagree. You have a false notion of Biblical faith on two points. And at this point you seem to have refused to hear the truth of it. Salvation is wholly monergism. What you seem unable to hear to believe is why faith precedes regeneration when faith does not cause regeneration.

 

[Silverhair]

This is your most direct answer. I appreciate it.
God has chosen us and His choice of us is from before the foundation of the world.
1 John 5 tells us (as does John 3 and Ephesians 2) that God caused us to be born again and we know this rebirth is true because we have been given faith to believe it.
Somehow, however, I think you may disagree with my second assertion as you seem to want to be the cause since you promote your own capacity to reason as the primary reason why you believe.

Strange how you claim to believe the bible yet you deny what it says. Why is the Austin? Is the bible not your authority?

God tells us we have to believe the gospel and trust in His son before we are saved and we will be held responsible for the choices we make.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Rom 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

Austin by the theology that you put forward everyone that is not chosen by God does have an excuse. God did not pick them, they did not win the lottery, they were not given faith. You deny the sovereignty of God. How many times have you said man does not have a free will so as to trust in Christ Jesus.

My question for you, Austin: in your calvinist view is God not sovereign enough to allow for man to have a true free will. A simple YES or NO will suffice.

 

[Alan Gross]

"Sin" is a Spiritual Reality that must be dealt with.

"Calvinists" see sin as rendering the lost sinner, "dead", i.e., "dead spiritually",
with no ability, whatsoever, to relate, "Spiritually", to their Creator God, Who is, "Spirit".

That is the "debate".

There is One Way of Salvation.

God Elects, Unconditionally.

The Lord, God Jesus Died for their sins, specifically.

The Holy Spirit and the Divine Essence of The Triune Godhead Draws the sinner,
through the Preaching of the Word of God, to CONVICT, and Effectually Call,
by Granting Repentance Toward God and a New Agreement with Him and His Word,
as well as, the Twin Doctrine, Faith, to Believe in the Power of Salvation, The Gospel.

Where each of these Elements of God's Eternal Plan of Salvation are not explicitly stated,
they are implied, as in the O.P.

 

[AustinC]

Yes, I disagree. You have a false notion of Biblical faith on two points. And at this point you seem to have refused to hear the truth of it. Salvation is wholly monergism. What you seem unable to hear to believe is why faith precedes regeneration when faith does not cause regeneration.

Tell me of your great faith while you were dead in your sins.

 

[37818]

God Elects, Unconditionally.

The word of God nowhere teaches that.

 

[Silverhair]

"Sin" is a Spiritual Reality that must be dealt with.

"Calvinists" see sin as rendering the lost sinner, "dead", i.e., "dead spiritually",
with no ability, whatsoever, to relate, "Spiritually", to their Creator God, Who is, "Spirit".

That is the "debate".

There is One Way of Salvation.

God Elects, Unconditionally.

The Lord, God Jesus Died for their sins, specifically.

The Holy Spirit and the Divine Essence of The Triune Godhead Draws the sinner,
through the Preaching of the Word of God, to CONVICT, and Effectually Call,
by Granting Repentance Toward God and a New Agreement with Him and His Word,
as well as, the Twin Doctrine, Faith, to Believe in the Power of Salvation, The Gospel.

Where each of these Elements of God's Eternal Plan of Salvation are not explicitly stated,
they are implied, as in the O.P.

So you must agree that your version of God also reprobates unconditionally. Seems you have a very low view of God.

 

[AustinC]

The word of God nowhere teaches that.

What conditions did God require from his elect before the foundations of the world? I will wait for that list of requirements that existed before creation. Just share them for us.

 

[37818]

What conditions did God require from his elect before the foundations of the world? I will wait for that list of requirements that existed before creation. Just share them for us.

It doesn't work like that. God's choosing precedes the election. That choosing is what was before the foundation of the world. Not our election.

 

[37818]

Tell me of your great faith while you were dead in your sins.

You really have no understanding of how one knows anything without believing a thing.

Luke 8:13 we have an example of a faith without root. What was it that he didn't hear by which he might have been given needed root.

 

[Silverhair]

What conditions did God require from his elect before the foundations of the world? I will wait for that list of requirements that existed before creation. Just share them for us.

Austin I did a search for "elect" in Ephesians 1:1-23 and it does not show up even once. So it seems you are reading into the text again.

But what you do see is that we are chosen in Christ, for adoption, for redemption, for forgiveness and to obtain an inheritance. All these things are for those the hear the gospel message and believe in Christ Jesus.

So if you are looking for conditions that God required from His elect well there can't be any as there were no elect before the foundation of the world. Now you may find them in your calvinist philosophy but not in the bible.

It seems that you missed this question before so let me ask you again. Perhaps you can answer it this time.

Austin, is the bible your authority, a simple YES or NO will suffice. If you say YES then why do you not believe what it says?

 

[AustinC]

You really have no understanding of how one knows anything without believing a thing.

Luke 8:13 we have an example of a faith without root. What was it that he didn't hear by which he might have been given needed root.

Explain how this verse shows God conditionally electing before the foundation of the world.
*Luke 8:13*
And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.