1 John 5:10-11.

[AustinC]

It doesn't work like that. God's choosing precedes the election. That choosing is what was before the foundation of the world. Not our election.

LOL, you speak in circles.
"God's choosing (election) precedes election (choosing)." Your comment is complete nonsense.
You both confirm and deny election before the foundation of the world. No wonder you struggle so much with your theology. You are caught in an endless loop of contradiction of which you cannot comprehend.

 

[Silverhair]

Explain how this verse shows God conditionally electing before the foundation of the world.
*Luke 8:13*
And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.

Austin I know you see my posts as you have commented on them so why do you not answer the question. Are you just unwilling to state your real view on BB?

Austin, is the bible your authority, a simple YES or NO will suffice. If you say YES then why do you not believe what it says?

 

[AustinC]

The answer to Sliverhair is simple:
I believe the Bible is God's word and every part of the Bible is truth.
Second, I hold entirely to God's word.
Therefore it is a simple deduction to say that I do not agree with Sliverhair's terrible interpretation of the Bible where he takes precedence over God in his salvation. That is precisely why he is on ignore as his very words are contrary to scripture.

 

[37818]

Explain how this verse shows God conditionally electing before the foundation of the world.
*Luke 8:13*
And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.

First off you have the presuppostion which conflates God's choosing with one's election. So long as you choose to believe that false premise this discussion is at a dead end at it's beginning.

It is as jf you were to believe one must first have a root before one can even have faith.

 

[37818]

LOL, you speak in circles.
"God's choosing (election) precedes election (choosing)." Your comment is complete nonsense.
You both confirm and deny election before the foundation of the world. No wonder you struggle so much with your theology. You are caught in an endless loop of contradiction of which you cannot comprehend.

They are two distinct things according two Mark 13:20. The choosing in Ephesians 1:4 was never the election.

 

[AustinC]

They are two distinct things according two Mark 13:20. The choosing in Ephesians 1:4 was never the election.

No they aren't. Neither of those sentences proclaim what you proclaim. You are trying to make a distinction where there is none. Others, beside myself, have corrected you on multiple occasions. You are simply being obstinate while creating an infinite loop of contradiction for yourself. It is no wonder you struggle with God's Supremacy and Sovereignty in salvation.

 

[37818]

No they aren't.

". . . the elect's . . . , whom he hath chosen, . . ." Two different words. The second word is typically never translated elect. KJV.

 

[37818]

<snip> Neither of those sentences proclaim what you proclaim. You are trying to make a distinction where there is none. Others, beside myself, have correcte d you on multiple occasions. You are simply being obstinate while creating an infinite loop of contradiction for yourself. It is no wonder you struggle with God's Supremacy and Sovereignty in salvation.

They are wrong because Ephesians 1:4 is referred to in Mark 13:20 as prior to being elect. And there are no other texts to prove otherwise.

 

[Silverhair]

The answer to Sliverhair is simple:
I believe the Bible is God's word and every part of the Bible is truth.
Second, I hold entirely to God's word.
Therefore it is a simple deduction to say that I do not agree with Sliverhair's terrible interpretation of the Bible where he takes precedence over God in his salvation. That is precisely why he is on ignore as his very words are contrary to scripture.

You just do not like it that I point out the contradictions in your theology and where you deny scripture and hold to your false view over the bible.

You can ignore me but you can not ignore the truth.

 

[unprofitable]

Who is the choosing in Ephesians 1:4

How do you think they are different from the election?

Matt 13:20 does say for the elect's sake whom he hath chosen. This verse confirms that the elect are always chosen therefore one and the same.

Or are you trying to say they are two different processes?

 

[Van]

Returning to OP:

1 John 5:10-11(NASB)
The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.​

Let us consider alternate translation choices for several of the Greek words found in this text to see if the actual message might be brought into the light of study.

1) The one who believers "in" the Son of God...

Here the preposition is "eis" meaning positionally "into" thus the phrase refers to someone who has been transferred spiritually into Christ's spiritual body. Thus a born anew and indwelt child of God.​

2) has the testimony (or witness) in himself...

I believe the "testimony" refers to the gospel of our indwelt Spirit of Christ.​

3) made God a liar...

Here I think the actual idea is that the one rejecting God's truth, that eternal life is in His Son, has made himself one of those who reject God's gift of eternal life.​

4) has not believed into the testimony (has not been transferred into Christ's spiritual body)

Therefore when someone rejects going "all in" for Christ, they are rejecting truth and embracing falsehood.​

5) God has given us eternal life

Again, the "us" refers to those God has transferred into Christ's spiritual body and indwelt, children of God.​

 

[37818]

Who is the choosing in Ephesians 1:4

How do you think they are different from the election?

Two different words are used.

Matt 13:20 does say for the elect's sake whom he hath chosen. This verse confirms that the elect are always chosen therefore one and the same.

Or are you trying to say they are two different processes?

One takes place before the other per Mark 13:20.

 

[Van]

Oops

 

[unprofitable]

Am I right to say you are saying they are two separate processes for the same people?

Ephesians 1:4 says the elect and chosen are one and the same.

 

[AustinC]

They are wrong because Ephesians 1:4 is referred to in Mark 13:20 as prior to being elect. And there are no other texts to prove otherwise.

Are you aware that Mark 13:19-20 is referring to God shortening the great tribulation so that all the elect that were chosen before the world began would, in fact be saved exactly as God chose them to be from before the foundation of the world? Read the verses and see.

For in those days there will be such tribulation as has not been from the beginning of the creation that God created until now, and never will be. And if the Lord had not cut short the days, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, whom he chose, he shortened the days.

Read it. If God did not cut short the days, all humans would have perished and the elect would not have been born so they could be saved. So God shortens the days of the tribulation.

Again, you are stuck in an infinite loop that you cannot get out of simply because you obstinately will not accept that God's choosing and election are one and the same.

 

[37818]

Are you aware that Mark 13:19-20 is referring to God shortening the great tribulation so that all the elect that were chosen before the world began would, in fact be saved exactly as God chose them to be from before the foundation of the world? Read the verses and see.

For in those days there will be such tribulation as has not been from the beginning of the creation that God created until now, and never will be. And if the Lord had not cut short the days, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, whom he chose, he shortened the days.

Read it. If God did not cut short the days, all humans would have perished and the elect would not have been born so they could be saved. So God shortens the days of the tribulation.

Again, you are stuck in an infinite loop that you cannot get out of simply because you obstinately will not accept that God's choosing and election are one and the same.

We are in disagreement. God choosing before the foundation of the world is not the election. They have never been the same. They are not even the same word.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

They are wrong because Ephesians 1:4 is referred to in Mark 13:20 as prior to being elect. And there are no other texts to prove otherwise.

It seems to me that in order to prove your point you would have to find a text that speaks of the elect whom God has not chosen.

 

[AustinC]

We are in disagreement. God choosing before the foundation of the world is not the election. They have never been the same. They are not even the same word.

Do synonyms not exist in your world, 37? When a dog barks, does it not also woof?
Chose and Elect mean the same thing though they are two different words. Because God chose to use two different words in two different verses it does not mean they are not talking of one and the same thing.
You struggle with God's election and choosing because you are trying to keep them apart when in fact they are one. Since you refuse to reconcile them, it forces you to create a contradiction and at the same time deny the contradiction. It is seen in your very claim when you state: "God's choosing precedes the election."

 

[37818]

t seems to me that in order to prove your point you would have to find a text that speaks of the elect whom God has not chosen.

A false premise. What the texts says stands.

 

[37818]

Chose and Elect mean the same thing though they are two different words.

That is how you interpert it. The text reads what it reads. The fact remains we do not understand them same way.
Both Ephesians 1:4 and Mark 13:20 refer to God choosing. But only Mark 13:20 speaks of them being the elect.