1 Timothy 2:4 - "God wills ALL men to be saved"

[utilyan]

The Non-elected are commanded to believe in the gospel or be damned. 1 John 5

The Gospel is Jesus died for their sins. If they don't believe this they call God a Liar. 1 john 5.

But according to limited atonement Jesus didn't die for them.

So the Non-elect are commanded to believe Jesus died for them when he has not. 1 john 5.


This is common sense folks.


Say a reprobate goes to hell for rejecting the gospel.

We say well Jesus never died for him.

So how does the reprobate go to hell for rejecting the gospel that never applies to him?





John 3:16

16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17“For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


He who does not believe is judged already.

What is the TRUTH that a non-believer is not believing?


If he is a rejecting that Jesus died for him is he not rejecting a Lie rather then rejecting the Truth?




How you preach the gospel good news? Hello stranger, I have great news, We don't know if Jesus died for you.

You couldn't say Jesus died for them else your a liar unless they were declared elect.

 

[ICHTHUS]

The Non-elected are commanded to believe in the gospel or be damned. 1 John 5

The Gospel is Jesus died for their sins. If they don't believe this they call God a Liar. 1 john 5.

But according to limited atonement Jesus didn't die for them.

So the Non-elect are commanded to believe Jesus died for them when he has not. 1 john 5.


This is common sense folks.


Say a reprobate goes to hell for rejecting the gospel.

We say well Jesus never died for him.

So how does the reprobate go to hell for rejecting the gospel that never applies to him?





John 3:16

16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17“For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


He who does not believe is judged already.

What is the TRUTH that a non-believer is not believing?


If he is a rejecting that Jesus died for him is he not rejecting a Lie rather then rejecting the Truth?




How you preach the gospel good news? Hello stranger, I have great news, We don't know if Jesus died for you.

You couldn't say Jesus died for them else your a liar unless they were declared elect.

Amen, well said!

 

[MennoSota]

A non-believer naturally continues in non-belief. There is no accepting Christ or rejecting Christ. There is only a continued, natural rebellion against God's sovereign authority. Some will remain in rebellion for eternity. Some will be saved from the rebel camp and reconciled to the King by the Kings command.

It is sad when I see well meaning Christians demand control over their own salvation and over others.
Salvation is not ours to accept or reject. Salvation is a gift, given by God to whom He desires to give it. We preach reconciliation because God tells us that this is our role as ambassadors.

 

[John of Wood Green]

"desires" and "wills" are two different words.
Jesus was sent into the world so that the world MIGHT be saved. He died and rose again so that the Elect WOULD be saved.

 

[ICHTHUS]

"desires" and "wills" are two different words.
Jesus was sent into the world so that the world MIGHT be saved. He died and rose again so that the Elect WOULD be saved.

Hi John, can you please give the Bible texts that you refer to here? thanks

 

[utilyan]

A non-believer naturally continues in non-belief. There is no accepting Christ or rejecting Christ. There is only a continued, natural rebellion against God's sovereign authority. Some will remain in rebellion for eternity. Some will be saved from the rebel camp and reconciled to the King by the Kings command.

It is sad when I see well meaning Christians demand control over their own salvation and over others.
Salvation is not ours to accept or reject. Salvation is a gift, given by God to whom He desires to give it. We preach reconciliation because God tells us that this is our role as ambassadors.

Do you know the difference between ambassador and a commando? Between imploring, begging for reconciliation and threatening or accusation?

You don't send a ambassador of NEW YORK to CALIFORNIA to make peace because its already under one nation.



2 Corinthians 5

19namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
20Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.


Not counting their trespasses means all charges are dropped.

We don't send Ambassadors to the Elect because they are already CITIZENS, SONS of God EVEN, they are of our kingdom.

Do I have to beg you on behalf of Christ to be reconciled with God? No you are elect.


So where you going Ambassador? What's the message being delivered to the OTHER KINGDOM?

Does God LOVE THEM? Does he want RECONCILIATON? FRIENDSHIP?

Why does God send you to beg and yet you say "There is no accepting Christ or rejecting Christ." and "Salvation is not ours to accept or reject."?

 

[utilyan]

"desires" and "wills" are two different words.
Jesus was sent into the world so that the world MIGHT be saved. He died and rose again so that the Elect WOULD be saved.

If God commands you to sit down, does that mean he DESIRES and WILLs for you to sit down?

 

[MennoSota]

Do you know the difference between ambassador and a commando? Between imploring, begging for reconciliation and threatening or accusation?

You don't send a ambassador of NEW YORK to CALIFORNIA to make peace because its already under one nation.



2 Corinthians 5

19namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
20Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.


Not counting their trespasses means all charges are dropped.

We don't send Ambassadors to the Elect because they are already CITIZENS, SONS of God EVEN, they are of our kingdom.

Do I have to beg you on behalf of Christ to be reconciled with God? No you are elect.


So where you going Ambassador? What's the message being delivered to the OTHER KINGDOM?

Does God LOVE THEM? Does he want RECONCILIATON? FRIENDSHIP?

Why does God send you to beg and yet you say "There is no accepting Christ or rejecting Christ." and "Salvation is not ours to accept or reject."?

Only God knows whom he chooses to adopt. Our command is to be ambassadors in a world where we are not citizens. Thus we preach reconciliation in rebel land. It is not for the faint of heart. We follow our Sovereign Kings command. We do not ask "why".

You seem desperate to be in control, utilyan. That's too bad.

 

[Yeshua1]

"desires" and "wills" are two different words.
Jesus was sent into the world so that the world MIGHT be saved. He died and rose again so that the Elect WOULD be saved.

Good point, for whatever God wills and determines to happen, will always happen, so those whom He intended to save will be saved, not just hope so/maybe!

 

[Yeshua1]

Only God knows whom he chooses to adopt. Our command is to be ambassadors in a world where we are not citizens. Thus we preach reconciliation in rebel land. It is not for the faint of heart. We follow our Sovereign Kings command. We do not ask "why".

You seem desperate to be in control, utilyan. That's too bad.

it is a lot better and easier to accept the truth that God is fully in command!

 

[comitatus1]

" For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Timothy 2:3-4).

The salvation of ALL HUMANS is said in the Word of God, to be "good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior", which is what this passage, and indeed the entire Bible very clearly teach. However, there are some who would have us believe, that the word "all" does not really mean "everyone without exception", but will limit passages like this in 1 Timothy, to the "elect" only. While it is true, the in the original Greek of the New Testament, as it is in English, the word "all" does not always mean "every single person", yet its true meaning must be determined from the immediate context and other usages in connection with the passage studied. There can be no doubt from this passage in 1 Timothy, that ALL cannot mean only the "elect". This can be seen from verses 1 and 2, where Paul writes, "Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for ALL men, for kings and ALL who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence". Where we have "for ALL men, for kings and ALL who are in authority". It would be a complete distortion of the Truth, to assume that the ALL used here twice, only means the "elect", but must be taken to mean what it does say, the ENTIRE HUMAN RACE. Any other explanation will be a twisting of the Word of God.

Note what Paul says in the Book of Acts:

"Then Agrippa said to Paul, “You almost persuade me to become a Christian. And Paul said, “I would to God that not only you, but also ALL who hear me today, might become both almost and altogether such as I am, except for these chains" (26:28-29)

Here we read of Agrippa saying to Paul that by his arguments he was trying to win him over for Jesus Christ, which is exactly what Paul was doing. Paul's response is, not only you, but ALL who hear his Gospel message he desired to be saved. It would be a twisting of the Truth of this passage to restrict the ALL to only the "elect", and also to assume that ALL present in Paul's hearing were somehow only the "elect". Further proofs from the Infallible Word of God that destroy the heresy of "limited atonement"

Of course, it God willed all men to be saved then all would in fact be saved. The context around this verse shows that God is merely interested in the Gospel being spread in the midst of civil peace and rest.

Chris

 

[utilyan]

Only God knows whom he chooses to adopt. Our command is to be ambassadors in a world where we are not citizens. Thus we preach reconciliation in rebel land. It is not for the faint of heart. We follow our Sovereign Kings command. We do not ask "why".

You seem desperate to be in control, utilyan. That's too bad.

Menno I can't choose to be desperate for anything if its a given God completely controls everything.

Also control doesn't equate to power, especially when forced the motive of fear is in command.

Love is greater then all powers you don't have the courage to comprehend this.


You do worst then ask "why" of God's command, Because you don't preach reconciliation at all. You still call them rebels after God has not counted their trespasses.


19namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.


Notice he doesn't say against US. Against THEM. Them is those accused of rebellion, US are the elect. that's why to US is committed the word of reconciliation.


20Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

We are to beg on behalf of Christ they be reconciled to God.

You have not followed the command at all. Reconciliation means friendly terms with God which would require God to love them, Those who hate others and abhor Love detest the Idea God humbly seeks friendship with rebels.

You can't tell everyone that God loves them if you did that would certainly upset Satan.

 

[bbmember]

"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Timothy 2:3-4).

"Glory to God in the highest,
and on earth peace, good will toward men." (Luke 2:14)

Those two verses are in perfect harmony because........

God has NO ill will toward anyone.

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[Yeshua1]

"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Timothy 2:3-4).

"Glory to God in the highest,
and on earth peace, good will toward men." (Luke 2:14)

Those two verses are in perfect harmony because........

God has NO ill will toward anyone.

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God is under no obligation to save any sinner, is he?

 

[bbmember]

God is under no obligation to save any sinner, is he?

God put Himself under obligation to save those who meet His condition for salvation (belief in Jesus...John 3:16). Isn't it something that God can be even more humble than the proudest of 'men' (Calvinists).

 

[MennoSota]

God put Himself under obligation to save those who meet His condition for salvation (belief in Jesus...John 3:16). Isn't it something that God can be even more humble than the proudest of 'men' (Calvinists).

What a poor exegesis, bbmember.

No one meets the conditions. Everyone falls short.
Romans 3:10-27
[10]As the Scriptures say, “No one is righteous— not even one.
[11]No one is truly wise; no one is seeking God.
[12]All have turned away; all have become useless. No one does good, not a single one.”
[13]“Their talk is foul, like the stench from an open grave. Their tongues are filled with lies.” “Snake venom drips from their lips.”
[14]“Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
[15]“They rush to commit murder.
[16]Destruction and misery always follow them.
[17]They don’t know where to find peace.”
[18]“They have no fear of God at all.”
[19]Obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for its purpose is to keep people from having excuses, and to show that the entire world is guilty before God.
[20]For no one can ever be made right with God by doing what the law commands. The law simply shows us how sinful we are.
[21]But now God has shown us a way to be made right with him without keeping the requirements of the law, as was promised in the writings of Moses and the prophets long ago.
[22]We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are.
[23]For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard.
[24]Yet God freely and graciously declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins.
[25]For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past,
[26]for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus.
[27]Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, because our acquittal is not based on obeying the law. It is based on faith.

God is not obligated, nor does he ever force himself to be obligated to sinners. God owes you, nothing!

 

[bbmember]

I wonder why Calvinists are so angry. But I guess if I worshipped a cruel and unjust god I guess I'd be angry too!

God made me a promise in John 3:16 and his Word is good enough for me! I trust him to keep his Word!

 

[bbmember]

MennoSota.... you said..."God is not obligated, nor does he ever force himself to be obligated to sinners."

Well... let's define 'obligation'.....

oblagation: "something that you must do because of a law, rule, promise, etc." [Merriam-Webster Dictionary]

So according to you...God is not obligated to keep even ONE single promise he has made to man (sinners).

Wow...looks like your imagination about God makes him a liar.

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[annsni]

I wonder why Calvinists are so angry. But I guess if I worshipped a cruel and unjust god I guess I'd be angry too!

God made me a promise in John 3:16 and his Word is good enough for me! I trust him to keep his Word!

So are you saying that those who believe in the sovereignty of God worship a false god and are not saved?

 

[MennoSota]

I wonder why Calvinists are so angry. But I guess if I worshipped a cruel and unjust god I guess I'd be angry too!

God made me a promise in John 3:16 and his Word is good enough for me! I trust him to keep his Word!

LOL, there is no anger in being saved by grace alone. There is frustration in reading really bad interpretation of God's word because a person won't let God's word speak for itself. It is disappointing to see people continue to promote the belief system, which Paul condemned in his letter to the Galatians. Why do humans insist on demanding that God grant them freedom to choose salvation while they are still dead in their trespasses and sins?