#2 Two Salvations? #3 Kingdom Exclusion

Ok, so lets let the bible explain.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

So Jesus is offering everlasting life on the last day to all who believe. So in context, perish means not having life on the last day.

 

Benjamin there are so many problems with your post there is no need in addressing them. First of all because you have jumbled your words and quotes from me to where I can even decifer what you are trying to say.

But I will say this. Time will tell if what I have said is in fact what Scripture has to say or if it was just me blowing smoke.

But if you and others that believe like you are right then I have nothing to worry about, because my piece of paradise is awaiting me no matter what I do just as long as I have believed.

But if what I and others that believe like me have said is true . . . well you can just meditate on that for a while.

 

How do you know? You even said you can't be sure, now you are saying just because you believe this brand of theology...you are sure.

I have meditated on it...and if it's what is true, no believer can ever have any assurance they will not spend 1000 years in hell, not even you.

Let's all just sweat it out, huh?

 

Let's all work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

 

Wow. I see you have taken a page out of the "how to twist Scripture" manual.

First, we were discussing "perish". I showed from Scripture that perish means either physical, spiritual, or both. John 3:16 in context is speaking of spiritual. We have spiritual everlasting life the moment we have faith in Christ. We still "perish" bodily, though.

 

I will do just that.

Psa 2:11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

 

We're still discussing perish, brother. What part of the believer will be raised up? Did it perish?

 

If you dont' believe in bodily resurrection you would be classified as a modern day sadducee.

 

Really says who? Says Webdog? I don't see anything in Scripture that says those that don't inherit the kingdom are unsaved. If it is there then please show it to me, because I"m not going to go on your hunches.

The same can be said for you, becuase the Bible never says that those that don't inherit the kingdom are unsaved. But if it does please show me.

Quote:
Please show me in both the OT and the NT where the Bible says that ALL children are joint heirs and ALL children become adopted sons and that ALL children will rule and reign.

No one has been able to do it yet, so I look forward to your response.

And yet no OT Scripture. If your belief is going to pass the Scripture test then you are going to be able to find that truth in the OT as well. I await your response!

Really well you show me in Scripture where we are to believe only half a if/then statement.

Absolutely He did, but that doesn't mean His blood automatically covers your present and future sins. Because if that is true there would be no puprose in confessing sins that had already been removed as far as east is from the west. You would be calling to the attention of God things that He said He would remember no more.

Why do I have to confess something that is already taken care of? Makes no sense whatsoever.

Christ does not force Himself on you. You can either die to self and let the Holy Spirit live out the manifested life of Christ in you or you can live for self and quench the work of the Holy Spirit. The Bible does say we can quench the work of the Spirit does it not?

Yeah take a look at the parable of the talent, pounds, virgins, wedding feast. We can just start there.

Well you have to make sure your "experiences" line up with Scripture and yes God can take out a disobedient child, but there is no evidence and I notice you didn't give any that says discipline ends with death.

If you belief is Scriptural then all you have to do is show me the verse that says or even implies that death is the magical cure all for discipline.

And please show me where the Bible says that those that are carnal and living their life the way they please are unsaved. That's backloading works into salvation.

I've never seen Scripture that says the entire body of Christ will be the bride of Christ. If you have Scripture please share it.

Again I see no Scriptural evidence of people being in the kingdom of the heavens that aren't ruling and reign with Christ, so if there is please show me.

According to you, but again only time will tell. If you are right then I have nothing to worry about . . .

 

So being 'dead' for a time and then raised up 'bodily' at a later time doesn't qualify as perished? Then why should being 'dead' for the duration of the kingdom and then raised up on the last day, like the Lord said, be 'perishing'?

 

Good night webdog. I said IF YOU ARE RIGHT. That means if your "every Christian is okay" belief is right then I'm okay and I have nothing to worry about.

I don't believe the way you do and I don't believe my entrace into the kingdom is secure unless I am continually believing and that faith is producing obedient works.

But if YOUR BELIEF is right then I have nothing to worry about.

Edit:

Not entirely true no. I John tells us that he wants us to be confident that we have age-lasting life. And if we are confessing our sins, and we are continuing to believe and that belief is producing obedient works then we can have assurance that we will have life in the coming age.

If those things are not happening then you are right and no we can not have assurance, not even me.

I wouldn't say sweat it out, I would say let's take the Bible for what is says and it says that I must be faithful, obedient and overcoming to inherit/enter the kingdom, so I pray that I will die to myself and that God will produce in me what He has said He would produce.

No sweat is required

 

I don't see automobile in the Bible, either. Must not be true...

If you don't believe 2 Timothy 3:16 is truth, take it up with God.
Funny you have nothing to say about the passage, though.

What part of ALL SIN do you not understand? We confess sin to acknowledge it, and to stay in fellowship with Him. If you said something mean to your father...felt bad and regretted it internally, is that enough to repair the relationship, or do you confess what you did to your father and ask his forgiveness?

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Yes. What it does not say is Christ will only cover our sin if we ALLOW Him to do so.

I believe my "experiences" were a result of Scripture truths. I have yet to see you supply evidence discipline really starts after we die. Christ didn't say to the thief on the cross "today you will be with Me in paradise...only to get tossed into hell for a thousand years".

What? I have never claimed anything like this.

Please show me a kingdom made up of only kings and governors.

 

What has never been said is how much faith, obedience and overcoming is needed? How good is good? We can't know, so no, no believer can ever know they will not spend at least a thousand years in hell. This is hardly "The Good News".

 

Why didn't you care how good you had to be when you thought you would only lose a few jewels in your crown?

 

Ever hear the phrase "you can't miss what you never had"? I believe sometimes we get caught up in this mind frame. We don't know to what extent our rewards will be, so we are kind of "ho hum" about it, and cave into the desires of the flesh...what we do know. We will care one day, though...for an eternity.

 

so truthfully, the idea of losing a crown is hardly a barrier to falling into sin.

 

Matthew 13:44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.

Why are we not selling all that we have to get that treasure? It must be because we haven't found it.

 

Their eyes are blinded to the truth so they will not see. Their ears are turned away so they will not hear.

 

See that statement right there doesn't even line up with Scripture. If so then there will be saddness and regret in eternity. Scripture paints quite the opposite picture. There is going to be no saddness and no regret when eternity begins.

Even your own arugments testify against you. Of course people are going to care. That is why it is said there is going to be wailing and gnashing of teeth. And that's why it says that God will wipe away all tears.