#2 Two Salvations? #3 Kingdom Exclusion

Yes it has at least twice. But I guess you just care not to even look at it.

 

A double amen to that!!

 

Then I don't have to confess my sins Ed? If so what would be the purpose to confess something that is already taken care of? Why do I need to remind God of something that He said has been removed as far as the east is from the west?

And no one else can show me with Scriptural proof, so maybe you can. Where does the Bible say that discipline of a believer ends with death?

If all my sins have been paid for and are forgiven them why am I chastened or disciplined for something that is already forgiven. That just doesn't even make sense.

 

I love my wife.

We are together.

Yet, she is 5,000 miles from here. She's been gone for three months, and it will be at least a month before I'm there, and maybe as long as three more months.

Do I love her less? Yes.

Are we separated? No.

 

When I said having eyes to see and ears to hear they see and hear not, the one who said amen was one of the ones I was speaking of.

See how blind they are?

My wife just reminded me of something...

Jesus said that the gates of hell would not prevail against the Church. If part of the body of Christ is being cast into hell (Christ, an amputee?? God forbid!!) then hell has indeed prevailed over the very thing Jesus said hell could not do!

Another reason the kingdom exclusion doctrine is heresy.

 

OK, you've posted some verses. Let's take a quick look at them. To start out, let's look at Philippians 1:1:

Phi 1:1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:

It's to all the saints along with the bishops and deacons. It's not to every person who is saved. (Although, it's quite interesting that the bishops and deacons are separated...) It's to those who have something that shows they are being fruitful. Now, if you hold to the fallacy that our spiritual salvation is proved by our works, then you are going to assume that all saved people are saints (except for bishops and deacons, I guess), and you're going to have contradictions within the Scriptures.

Romans 8:29 is something that can be dealt with later. I want to keep this post short. But, suffice it to say that this passage is talking about election, not salvation. There are many potholes in the "Romans Road" if you try to apply it to spiritual salvation.

As for 1 John, let me ask you a couple of questions:

What's the meaning of "life"?

What's the meaning of "fellowship"?

1 John 3:3 says, "And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure."

What are we (the writer is including himself in this statement) hoping for? Are you hoping that you're saved?

I'm not hoping that I'm saved; I know that I'm saved. I'm hoping for glory in that wondrous age that is yet to come. I'm hoping that I will find myself approved. I'm hoping that I will endure to the end.

Why? Because I've been promised that if I believe on the Lord Jesus I will be saved. Not that I might or might not be saved. But, I've also been promised that if I endure and if I persevere until the end (conditional; works are involved), that he is faithful to reward me for such.

The wages of sin is death. The wages of righteous living, are crowns; an abundant entrance into his coming Kingdom.

We're saved by "believe", but we are to live our lives by "faith". If we're faithful; if we continue in believing; if we endure - we can have an entrance into his coming Kingdom and participate in it fully.

 

So now you are just into subtle slander. You must be so proud of yourself :laugh: I just love it when you all come up with these statements that the VERY same thing can be said right back at you!

And ultimately that will be true, but to understand that is to dig even deeper into God's Truth so there is no use into going into the details of that, becuase you don't want to even get away from the pebbles that are on the surface.

 

What promises has God made to the unsaved?

What promises has God made to the unsaved that are conditioned upon their works?

I don't know, but I think so, based on the Scriptures. It has been asked me before whether I think that someone who believes that salvation can be lost can be saved? After all, they think their salvation is based upon works (if you can lose it by works, it's still by works), so are they truly believing on the finished work of Jesus on the cross? I don't know the answer to that either. But, even if someone fails to see the Kingdom teachings, and they life a faithful life, certain rewards have been promised. Do you have to know about them in order to recieve them? I don't know.

However, I know that God has said that many people are blinded to the Kingdom, many, such as the Pharisees have shut their own eyes to these teachings. They require accountability instead of being a license to sin. Is OSAS true? Yes. But, it's not a license to sin any more than being a child of Moses was a license to sin.

I do know that I have been blessed in teaching the Kingdom at the church where I'm currently preaching. The former pastor, who was a good Baptist seminary graduate, started seeing that there was a difference between the Kingdom and salvation because he started looking at "contradictions" in the Scripture. However, he had only context to go on. When I arrived on the scene (due to a "coincidence" of severe injuries, etc., that kept me from the pastorate that I was headed for), I was able to show him grammar to go along with that context. (I'm still amazed to this day that there are seminaries that don't require Greek!) The two complement each other very well, and when you let the Scripture speak for itself, the only contradictions that you get is between the text and the cemetaries... I mean seminaries. (Some Baptist seminaries still teach Kingdom truths, but most stick with things that are more appealing to the masses.)

Does that mean that if he had not discovered this through the Holy Spirit's guidance that he would not be permitted an abundant entrance? He lived a faithful life before, as did many of the people at church. But, he and others have stated to me that they are much more blessed being able to know, instead of having to guess.

I would request that instead of looking at what we are showing alone, look at what those who teach that salvation can be lost alongside what we are teaching. Look at the study that I posted on the Salvation of the Soul. Compare it to the Scriptures that are posted with it. Don't take my word on it, see what God has to say! That's one reason that in my sermons, we turn to a lot of passages of Scripture. I don't want anyone to trust me; I want to show it to them in the Bible! If it's not there, it's just my opinion and is worth about as much as the bandwidth that it takes up. But, if it's there, it's the Word of God!

 

OK, let's assume that your argument is valid. What about a Christian who commits murder? What about one who lives in adultery? What about them?

Who, besides yourself (and I believe Diggin) has said anything about abandoning anyone?

 

Faithful or unfaithful is exactly the context. If you are an unfaithful worker, your works will be burned up. If you are a faithful worker, your works will survive. Spiritual salvation is not based upon the faith or lack of faith of the individual; it is based upon the faithfulness of the Lord Jesus, and his faithfulness is perfect. But, your reward is based upon your faithfulness.

 

Then, what exactly do you see as an "entrance" into the Kingdom? If one is there with no crown; no authority to rule and reign...

 

If salvation does not mean being saved from the fires of hell, or from the lake of fire, what is one being saved from?

 

Who said that wasn't what salvation meant? All we said is they are two different salvations. Being saved in eternity from the lake of fire does not automatically mean you will not experience hell during the kingdom.

 

Two statements, one question: In the example that James gave, "perish" is a present tense.

In John 3:16, "believe" is a present, active, participle; the action can be stopped. What happens if the one who is believing stops believing? Do they become unsaved?

 

Pretty good definition of "with fear and trembling".

 

Where does it say there will be no regret? What tears will God wipe away if there is no regret? For the believer, eternity begins the moment of the rapture.

 

I hope this was a typo. If not, I hope your wife doesn't frequent the BB :laugh:

 

Now you are being less than truthful. Your reply was to just be ready, that there is no way to know.

 

If they put their faith in Christ, they are saved.

 

It makes no difference if the action can be stopped, a covenant takes two sides to be broken, and God will not break His, unless you don't believe in OSAS.