2nd Timothy 2:10

[MB]

Whether Timothy was a Jew is irrelevant. Timothy was a Christian minister in Ephesus. Paul identified himself as an apostle to the Gentiles, then comes the passage concerning enduring for the “elect”.

The context is clear. Paul was referring to Christians in general and Gentile Christians in particular when he used the word “elect”.

We are just talking passed each other now, so I’ll leave you to it.

Thanks for the conversation

peace to you

If you are elect it seems to me you should be able to prove you are and you have never done this.
MB

 

[canadyjd]

If you are elect it seems to me you should be able to prove you are and you have never done this.
MB

It seems to me you have come to a false conclusion: i.e. if I believe scripture teaches God elects to salvation those He has chosen, I should be able to “prove” I am one of the elect. You are, in effect, demanding I prove I am saved.

If I quote scripture, you dismiss it out of hand, saying it can’t mean what it says because the word “elect” only applies to Jews.

Therefore, reasonable conversation with you on this topic is impossible because, as I said, we will just talk past each other.

peace to you

 

[MB]

It seems to me you have come to a false conclusion: i.e. if I believe scripture teaches God elects to salvation those He has chosen, I should be able to “prove” I am one of the elect. You are, in effect, demanding I prove I am saved.

There you go putting words in to my mouth. If you believe in Christ then you are saved. If you believe you are elect you are attempting to replace the Jews. Election has nothing to do with Salvation. You just make the erroneous claim of election that you cannot prove with scripture.

If I quote scripture, you dismiss it out of hand, saying it can’t mean what it says because the word “elect” only applies to Jews

.
Your claim of election is made in ignorance. Only Jews are elect. You apply election to your self. God did not elect you

Therefore, reasonable conversation with you on this topic is impossible because, as I said, we will just talk past each other.

peace to you

No one asked you to respond If you do not wish to converse about it then don't respond
MB

 

[Yeshua1]

If this is what you think you are wrong. Just like us we have to believe in Jesus Christ and that He died for the world and rose again to pay for our sins.
MB

I was asking if that was what you think, as both Jews and Gentiles are elect of God to me!

 

[canadyjd]

....
.
Your claim of election is made in ignorance. Only Jews are elect. You apply election to your self. God did not elect you.....
MB

Just because you say it, no matter how many times you say it, doesn’t make it true.

I’ve shown you that the context of Paul’s use of “elect” in 2 Tim is referring to Gentile Christians.

Accept it or don’t, but the Truth remains the same whatever you or I believe it.

peace to you

 

[MB]

I was asking if that was what you think, as both Jews and Gentiles are elect of God to me!

Gentiles are not Jews and there fore cannot be elect. Scripture never says Gentiles are elect. Only Jews are elect.
MB

 

[George Antonios]

Paul is saying that he endures all things for the sake of the believers (since they believed, they became elect) not for their salvation, but for their glorious salvation. Salvation is by grace, but the glory is a reward at the judgment seat of Christ, and Paul wants believers to inherit more glory than they otherwise would. That's all.
Tim was a Gentile:
Act 16:1 Then came he to Derbe and Lystra: and, behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timotheus, the son of a certain woman, which was a Jewess, and believed; but his father was a Greek:
Act 16:2 Which was well reported of by the brethren that were at Lystra and Iconium.
Act 16:3 Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek.

 

[George Antonios]

This is as false as it comes.
Act 16:1 Then came he to Derbe and Lystra: and, behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timotheus, the son of a certain woman, which was a Jewess, and believed; but his father was a Greek: The Jew nationality is handed down through the mother. All of the disciples were Jews.

You're the one who needs to study LOL1
MB

Hey MB, the maternal Jewish identity is a modern and unBiblical phenomenon.
In the Bible, identity is of the father, otherwise, many of the kings of Judah would have been illegitimate since their mothers were Gentiles.

 

[MB]

Hey MB, the maternal Jewish identity is a modern and unBiblical phenomenon.
In the Bible, identity is of the father, otherwise, many of the kings of Judah would have been illegitimate since their mothers were Gentiles.

The Jewish community would disagree with you. Christ got His Jewish idenity from His mother because His Father was the Holy Spirit. Unless you can prove God is Jewish. or maybe not really Jewish at all. Was Christ Illegitimate. No doubt some would say so.
MB

 

[MB]

Paul is saying that he endures all things for the sake of the believers (since they believed, they became elect) not for their salvation, but for their glorious salvation. Salvation is by grace, but the glory is a reward at the judgment seat of Christ, and Paul wants believers to inherit more glory than they otherwise would. That's all.
Tim was a Gentile:
Act 16:1 Then came he to Derbe and Lystra: and, behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timotheus, the son of a certain woman, which was a Jewess, and believed; but his father was a Greek:
Act 16:2 Which was well reported of by the brethren that were at Lystra and Iconium.
Act 16:3 Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek.

I suppose you agree with the Calvinist. Show me where scripture says Gentiles become elect once they are saved. Of course I know it does not say this which means in some cases you do the same as the Calvinist you believe in replacement theology. I accept scripture as it is. I do not elaborate it with my own ideas. As I understand election it would be falsely claiming to be a Jew to claim election.
Rev_3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
MB

 

[Brightfame52]

Yes the context is clear even though it is addressed to the Jews Paul preached in synagogues. He even went to prison for bringing Gentiles into the synagogue. I know my self I do not go in to synagogues for the simple reason I'm not welcomed there.
You are applying this to your self and unless you are a Jew you are not elect. No where in scripture is it ever required that we have to be elect to be saved.
MB

Sure it is , for it's required to be saved by Grace apart from works isn't it? That equates to Election of Grace Rom 11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
. And Gentiles are saved the same way, by Grace!

 

[Brightfame52]

The Jewish community would disagree with you. Christ got His Jewish idenity from His mother because His Father was the Holy Spirit. Unless you can prove God is Jewish. or maybe not really Jewish at all. Was Christ Illegitimate. No doubt some would say so.
MB

But Jesus wasn't a blood line jew. He did not come from out of Mary's egg, He was placed in her by the Spirit. The baby in the womb generates his own Blood. Jesus was a Spiritual Jew and so are the members of His Body the Church . Salvation is not based on ethnicity . Now granted He was born into a jewish family with a jewish mother, however that put no special premium on ethnic jews regarding Salvation , that would be respect of persons based on race and not grace . That is what people do when they say only ethnic jews are Gods Elect when it regards Salvation.

 

[George Antonios]

I suppose you agree with the Calvinist. Show me where scripture says Gentiles become elect once they are saved. Of course I know it does not say this which means in some cases you do the same as the Calvinist you believe in replacement theology. I accept scripture as it is. I do not elaborate it with my own ideas. As I understand election it would be falsely claiming to be a Jew to claim election.
Rev_3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
MB

I fully reject Calvinism in all its 5 points and I fully reject replacement theology. I'm not sure how those two things got into the discussion.

As for the Jewish community, that's not my concern, only the Bible is, and in the Bible, the lineage always goes through the father, never the mother. That's undeniable brother.

 

[SGO]

If that is true why are the genealogies in Matthew and Luke different?

 

[AustinC]

I fully reject Calvinism in all its 5 points and I fully reject replacement theology. I'm not sure how those two things got into the discussion.

As for the Jewish community, that's not my concern, only the Bible is, and in the Bible, the lineage always goes through the father, never the mother. That's undeniable brother.

Talk to any Jew today and they will tell you a person is a Jew by their mother. Today it is a matriarchal lineage.

 

[SGO]

Jesus is a "spiritual" Jew?

Jesus isn't Jewish now?

When you see Him you may have to explain why you don't count Revelation 5:5 as scripture.

And one of the elders saith unto me, weep not:
behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David,
hath prevailed to open the book,
and to loose the seven seals thereof.

 

[Brightfame52]

Jesus is a "spiritual" Jew?

Jesus isn't Jewish now?

When you see Him you may have to explain why you don't count Revelation 5:5 as scripture.

And one of the elders saith unto me, weep not:
behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David,
hath prevailed to open the book,
and to loose the seven seals thereof.

If that's the case so are all His members of His Body. For He and they are One Flesh. Eph 5:30-32

 

[SGO]

So are you saying that Jesus Christ is not Jewish?

 

[Brightfame52]

So are you saying that Jesus Christ is not Jewish?

See post 32 for what I said.

 

[MB]

I fully reject Calvinism in all its 5 points and I fully reject replacement theology. I'm not sure how those two things got into the discussion.

As for the Jewish community, that's not my concern, only the Bible is, and in the Bible, the lineage always goes through the father, never the mother. That's undeniable brother.

I'm not trying to make enemies. I fully reject election of Gentiles. This is replacement theology. No where in scripture does it ever say Gentiles are elect. They got in to the discussion when you said in post 27

"Paul is saying that he endures all things for the sake of the believers (since they believed, they became elect)"

Paul never said Gentiles are elect or that they became elect when they believe This you have added your self.
MB