OldRegular
Well-Known Member
The only thing the above Scripture teaches is that God does not vast off His Elect. I say again:
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3 Differences between the Rapture and the Second Coming of Christ
- Thread starter Revmitchell
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The only thing the above Scripture teaches is that God does not vast off His Elect. I say again:
Except where Old Testament prophecy which must be fulfilled for Israel says there will be a Kingdom with Messiah Reigning. The Old Testament shows where God said they would have a Kingdom. God said it and He doesn't lie. Period. Paul makes it very cleat in Romans 11 that he is speaking of Israel as a nation. Because it makes it clear that he was an Israelite.
Secondly, prophecy must be literally fulfilled or the prophet becomes a liar, so Jeremiah, Isaiah, Zechariah and Daniel among others would be proven false prophets. God would be a liar when He made a covenant to Abraham,
Genesis 17: 1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,
4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
Notice the covenant says nothing about God would dishonor this if the nation rejected Christ in fact God knew He foreknew the people and He foreknew they would reject the messiah We see Daniels prophecy in chapter 9 verse 26 - 27, look a few sentences down and you will see it. God foreknew that they would reject Christ as a nation, and yet He made the covenant with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He said the token of the promise is that every male child was to be circumcised and the Jews still practice that today. Notice the red highlighted, the Land would be the seed of Abraham an everlasting possession. God would be there God, not that they would be His people only if they accepted Christ. It was an unconditional covenant and God will honor it or be found as a liar. Therefore as Paul says God's People Israel who are also Paul's people have not been set aside permanently.
Notice too Genesis 48:4 And said unto me, Behold, I will make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, and I will make of thee a multitude of people; and will give this land to thy seed after thee for an everlasting possession.
The same covenant was made to Jacob, notice the red highlighted. God made a covenant promise and it was unconditional. That alone proves God has not cast off Israel permanently.
Daniel 9:26-27, 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Revelation 12:13-15, 13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Daniel fulfilled, this is the midst of the week, satan attacks, the beast comes to power and here in Revelation 13:12-14, we see the abomination that maketh desolate,
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
They worship the Beast and his image all because of the influence of the false messiah, anti-christ, the beast out the earth.
All falls into harmony, O.T. and new alike fall right in step with God is not through with Israel.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
I presented the following post earlier:
You have posted a lot of Scripture but you have not yet posted a single passage from Scripture where this Judgment of the Jews by Jesus Christ is rescinded!
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
You posted the following Scripture, even highlighted parts in red.
Genesis 17:8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
Genesis 48:4 And said unto me, Behold, I will make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, and I will make of thee a multitude of people; and will give this land to thy seed after thee for an everlasting possession.
Now how long does that Scripture promise the land to Abraham and Jacob. Forever is not 1000 years! Where is the harmony? And what in the world do the passages from Revelation and Daniel have to do with the Judgment that Jesus Christ pronounced on the Jews?
Is revelation progressive or not? I believe I have seen you make that claim!
Not me, OR...you. lol
I have said I deny concurrence and have shown that there are differences which deny concurrence.
Again,m I am asking you to show concurrence by dealing with the differences. That is the general premise of the OP...the differences demand separate events. Just because we see similarities in events does not mean all events are identical.
Irrelevant?
Just how many times does the Word of God have to state something for it to be true?
While the duration may only be mentioned in one passage, the Kingdom itself is throughout Scripture, over and over. Much of the Gospels relate to this Kingdom. Much in Old Testament Prophecy relates to this Kingdom.
And Revelation states it with clarity. So not sure why some would deny the reality of the Kingdom.
If you would just address all that is pointed out to you then you would be forced to admit this Kingdom is coming.
One thousand seventy five days:
Revelation 20
King James Version (KJV)
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
If we count the 75 days of establishing the Kingdom, that is:
Daniel 12:8-12
King James Version (KJV)
8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
From the time of the Abomination of Desolation shall be1335 days, seventy five days longer than the prophesied duration of the last half of the Tribulation itself. It is during this time I believe we will see the gathering of the Nations for judgment prior to the actual beginning of the thousand years. This also allows a seventy five day period in which Satan, who goes into bondage when Christ returns, will have opportunity to draw to himself the unbelieving and once more seek to oppose God.
All of that has to take place to keep the prophecy of Revelation intact. Your view negates this prophecy.
And all of this has been addressed in detail, yet you have refused to address it.
Here, for example, are a few, which have to be be balanced with the teachings you post below, because they tell the rest of the story:
Matthew 13:46-48
King James Version (KJV)
46 Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.
47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
This depicts the return of Christ, when believers will survive, and unbelievers will be destroyed.
Luke 19:11-13
King James Version (KJV)
11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
This depicts Christ's Ascension and Return. No way to deny that.
It goes on to say...
Luke 19:15
King James Version (KJV)
15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
This return and Kingdom is spoken of here:
Revelation 11:15
King James Version (KJV)
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
We also see this in the Parable of the Talents, where clearly the Lord returns to deal with those professing Christ.
Now we know that Christ and the disciples preached the "gospel of the Kingdom:"
Matthew 4:23
King James Version (KJV)
23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
And we know that the Gospel of Christ was yet a mystery, which excludes the Gospel of the Kingdom from being the same message as the Gospel of Christ:
Romans 16:24-26
King James Version (KJV)
24 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
This Gospel speaks about the spiritual rule and reign of Christ which is taking place now for every person that, as Christ commanded, is born again.
But we still see the Kingdom promised by God still to come, which is a physical Kingdom. I have presented passages that illustrate that often, yet you have not responded to them. Perhaps you could do so at this time. You are familiar with them. That Kingdom will see life-spans increased. That Kingdom will see animosity between man and animal decreased, perhaps removed. That Kingdom will see the Prophecy of it fulfilled.
And going back to the Rapture, and resurrection, the Martyrs resurrected prior to the thousand year Reign of Christ, perhaps you could explain why this group is singled out for resurrection, and no-one else is resurrected until the thousand years are over?
Continued...
Which means, my friend, that the Restoration promised to Israel still remains to be fulfilled. It's a simple position which has the whole of Scripture behind it.
Speaks of Christ's first coming and Gentile Inclusion.
Why would I do that, lol. It has been fulfilled. And it does nothing to detract...
...from the rest of the Prophecy which needs to be fulfilled.
Namely...the Return of Christ, at which time we will see the unfolding of that prophesied in Revelation as well as Old Testament Prophecy. We will see that thousand year Kingdom established despite the fact that it is mentioned in regards to duration only once.
Here is a passage already given you, which correlates to the Supper of the Great God in Revelation 19, which you have never responded to:
Ezekiel 39:4-12
King James Version (KJV)
4 Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.
5 Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord God.
6 And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the Lord.
7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, the Holy One in Israel.
8 Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord God; this is the day whereof I have spoken.
9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:
10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord God.
11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.
12 And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.
Now, if you would care me where in History this took place, at which time the Lord returned and Israel was restored to her country, as is promised often in the Old Testament, then perhaps you might persuade me to embrace your views.
But that cannot be done, as they are they to be fulfilled, even as Christ is yet to return.
Two time durations are given above, seven months and seven years. This shows a physical Kingdom that Israel will dwell in after the fulfillment of the destruction of her enemies.
This denies a spiritualized view that the Eternal State begins at the Return of Christ.
But then...so does Revelation itself.
God bless.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
In my posts 127 & 129 I said:
If you cannot understand that ?
Only once! However if you don't understand Scripture innumerable times would not help! How many times does God have to say the following before you understand?
43. Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44. And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
Now you show me Scripture where this Judgment is rescinded!
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OldRegular
Well-Known Member
I posted the following in post#144:
Now how long does that Scripture promise the land to Abraham and Jacob. Forever is not 1000 years! Forever is not
That's great.
Now how about the rest of what the Word of God states concerning God's promises to Israel?
How about actually addressing the points raised?
And are you forgetting that "forever" does not apply to the physical creation, and that we must address the prophecy that speaks of the temporal, and the Creation that exists now (to be contrasted with the Eternal State)?
That is what you keep avoiding.
Show why Revelation is wrong that Christ returns physically, destroys the enemies of God in the Supper of the Great God, Binds Satan for one thousand years, resurrects Tribulation Martyrs who reign with Him one thousand ye rs, looses Satan after one th usand years, casts Satan into the Lake of Fire after one thousa d years, resurrects the rest of the dead after one thous nd years, the current creation passes out of existence after o e th us nd years, creates the Eternal State after o e t ousand y ars...
And sorry for the spelling, seems I am wearing out certain keys by repeating the same questions and points over and over...
...little bit of humor there, OR.
The point is you ask for Scripture after it has already been given yet you refuse to address it. If you look at this thread, review it, you will see yourself repeating the same questions. Until you address the points this is what you will do continually. Your doctrine will not withstand a thorough examination friend, but it is time to do so.
God bless.
Herein lies the problem in saying that God is through with Israel based on Matthew 21. Note "the Kingdom of God shall be taken from you.” This is not the Kingdom in which Christ will reign for 1000 years and as promised to Israel.
First we see Calvin “For by these words Christ assures us that, though the ungodly destroyed the worship of God among themselves, they would never cause the name of Christ to be abolished, or true religion to perish; for God, in whose hand are all the ends of the earth, will find elsewhere a dwelling and habitation for his kingdom. We ought also to learn from this passage, that the Gospel is not preached in order that it may lie barren and inoperative, but that it may yield fruit.”
Then Matthew Henry states in his commentary on Matthew 21, “That the Jews shall be unchurched The kingdom of God shall be taken from you. This turning out of the husbandmen speaks the same doom with that of dismantling the vineyard, and laying it common. Isaiah 5:5. To the Jews had long pertained the adoption and the glory (Romans 9:4) to them were committed the oracles of God (Romans 3:2), and the sacred trust of revealed religion, and bearing up of God's name in the world (Psalm 76:1,2) but now it shall be so no longer. They were not only unfruitful in the use of their privileges, but, under pretence of them, opposed the gospel of Christ, and so forfeited them, and it was not long ere the forfeiture was taken. Note, It is a righteous thing with God to remove church privileges from those that not only sin against them, but sin with them, Revelation 2:4,5. The kingdom of God was taken from the Jews, not only by the temporal judgments that befel them, but by the spiritual judgments they lay under, their blindness of mind, hardness of heart, and indignation at the gospel, Romans 11:8-10,1 Thessalonians 2:15.”
Next we see Spurgeon in his commentary, “And, at this day, we Gentiles enjoy the privileges of the gospel, while poor Israel is scattered to the four winds of heaven. But he, that spared not the natural olive, will not spare the engrafted branches if we are found unfruitful. God takes the gospel away from one nation, and gives it to another; but it is not accepted by the other one, and if he has not all the glory of it ascribed to him, he will take it away from that nation, too. He may deal there with us; if England becomes and remains a drunken nation, a cruel nation, a proud nation, an unbelieving nation, a superstitious nation, and brings forth the evil fruits of the vine of Sodom, we may not expect that God will always continue his kingdom amongst us. He will say to us, as Christ said to these chief priests and elders, “The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”
What was removed from Israel? Here according to these noted men, as well as Jesus is the custody of the Gospel, the care of scripture and the privilege of spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom Christ. Of which we as the church are now living and to be doing! The Kingdom of the Spreading of the Gospel of Christ that is the Kingdom which exist today as it did in Old Testament times, as it will be given back to Israel in the Tribulation with the 144,000 of the Tribes if Israel.
Now as to the Kingdom in which Israel looked forward too, the one prophesied by Isaiah, Jeremiah, Zechariah and others, that is a different Kingdom. God’s church on earth we might say is a church of spreading the gospel of the Kingdom. Christ took custody of scripture as well as custody of spreading the Gospel away from Israel here in Matthew 21 and gave the spreading of the Gospel and of completion of Scripture that is custody of scripture to His New Testament Church. That is what was removed, the Gospel Kingdom, but God as Paul said in Romans 11:1 "I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying," God has not set Israel aside from the Kingdom they so anticipated is yet to come.
Revelation 20 says the Messiah’s earthly Kingdom is yet to come. That Kingdom was not taken away from Israel nor, the church nor the Tribulation saints all will be in that Kingdom. All will be there as Christ reigns and seated upon thrones in that Kingdom for 1000 years. It will come and Jesus will rule from Jerusalem on the Throne of David in the Nation Israel which will be re-gathered and brought back as God’s nation.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Not really.
I asked you once before to explain your belief of Revelation 20 and other passages. You ask me explain some scriptures and I did, you said you might explain mine. You have yet to answer those. Yet you continue to say that is not right or not really, but never offer your explanation. So I take your comments with a grain of salt when you offer up a not really or incorrect since you won't offer your explanation.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Revelation 20:1-10 is a recapitulation of events since the ministry of Jesus Christ until His return in Power and Great Glory and the general resurrection of all the dead {John 5:28, 29} followed by the Great White throne Judgment of Revelation 20:11-15.
Jesus Christ while on earth bound, that is, limited the ability of Satan to deceive the nations.
Matthew 12:29. Or else how can one enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
Mark 3:27. No man can enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.
Hebrews 2:14, 15
14. Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15. And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
Revelation 20:1-3
1. And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3. And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Jesus Christ is the first and only resurrection to date. Those who have part in the first resurrection are those who are the redeemed through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
I would also note that John saw should not resurrected bodies on the thrones.
Revelation 20:8-10 is a second account of the Battle of Armageddon of Revelation 19. This must not be understood in the physical sense of a battle since Scripture tells us:
Revelation 20:9. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
*******************************************************************************************
Now Scripture tells us that the Book of Revelation was written to the Church:
Revelation 1:1-7
1. The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
2. Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
3. Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
4. John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
5. And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6. And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
7. Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Verse 1:7 tells us of the return of Jesus Christ and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Every eye shall see him, and they also who killed him and all people shall wail! That speaks of a general resurrection as promised in John 5:28, 29!
Explain why Jesus Christ through John writes this letter to the Churches, the "true believers", when they will not be on earth during the events of Revelation 4-19? It makes no sense at all, 16 chapters written for unbelievers. Utter nonsense! And it is utter nonsense that so many people would be deceived by a doctrine conceived in the mind of John Nelson Darby who apparently had an epiphany while recuperating from an injury less than 200 years ago. [http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice-JohnNelsonDarbyandth.pdf}
It is also utter nonsense that God would leave his people in ignorance for 1800 years that HE really has two different peoples and that HE will snatch all "true believers" out because they failed to honor the commend of Jesus Christ:
Matthew 28:18-20
18. And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
So Jesus Christ really did not mean what HE said, that the Church is to teach and baptize until the end of the world!
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
The above should read: I would also note that John saw souls not resurrected bodies on the thrones.
Have to watch that spell checker!
My turn to ask what (well known) scholars support your view?
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Part #1: HISTORIC BAPTIST VIEWS OF THE SECOND COMING OF JESUS CHRIST
Those Scholars responsible for Baptist Confessions of Faith!
HISTORIC BAPTIST VIEWS {Extracted from my notes on Revelation.}
Throughout history Baptist have generally believed that the return of Jesus Christ will be followed immediately by a resurrection of all the dead, both the ‘redeemed’ and the ‘lost’, and a general judgment. This conclusion is based on information presented in Baptist Confessions of Faith by William L. Lumpkin. [Only one Confession, that of the Baptist Bible Union of 1923, presents a view other than a general resurrection and judgment.] Not all of the confessions in the book included statements about the Second Coming. Those that do are identified and the pertinent statements are presented in the following paragraphs. These statements are presented without comment regarding other aspects of doctrine. Also, Scripture references that provide a basis for the statements are omitted.
In some confessions the statements regarding a general judgment are more specific than those regarding a general resurrection. It is obvious from reading the various confessions that the question of a general resurrection and judgment versus multiple resurrections and judgments were neither dominant nor divisive issues among the earlier Baptist churches. Rather the primary issues regarded the person of Jesus Christ, the meaning of election, the extent and nature of the atonement, the mode and subjects for baptism, proper worship, and the involvement of Christians in the world government. It follows that since Baptists historically believed in a general resurrection and judgment they did not believe in an earthly millennial kingdom, they were either amillennialists or historic/covenant postmillennialists.
Anabaptist Confessions
The following confessions [1 & 2] are by Anabaptist groups residing in Holland[5]. While not all Anabaptist groups practiced immersion[6], they did reject infant baptism insisting that the Scriptures teach that only believers are to be baptized. The Mennonite and Amish groups have roots in the Anabaptist movement.
1. The Waterland Confession of 1580 or 1581 [Anabaptist]
Article XL -- Of Christ’s Return, Of The Resurrection Of The Dead, And Of The Last Judgment. [page 65]
“Lastly, we believe and teach that Jesus Christ, our glorious King and Lord, visibly just as he ascended, will return from heaven with power and great glory, and with Him all the holy angels, that He may be glorified in His saints and may be admired by all believers, and will manifest Himself as the Judge of the living and the dead. At that time all men, just and unjust, who have lived upon the earth and have died, will rise from the dead [with incorruption] and live again, their souls being reunited with their own bodies in which they have lived evilly or well. But those who are alive in that day and have not died, changed in a moment and in a twinkling of an eye, will put on incorruption, and the whole multitude of the human race will stand before the tribunal of Christ to report what each one has done in their body according to that which he has done whether good or evil. Then Jesus will separate the sheep from the goats as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, and will place the sheep on His right hand but the goats on the left, and will give sentence. The just who have lived here holily and have exercised all the works of charity and mercy , as the husband of that Christian multitude, He will take to Himself. They will enter with Him into eternal life and celestial joy and glory, where all will always be with the Lord and will possess forever that kingdom which God the Father had prepared for them from the beginning of the world. But the unrighteous who have not known God nor regarded the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, will be condemned to eternal fire, which was prepared for the Devil and his angels, and they will undergo sorrow and eternal perdition, from the face of the Lord and the glory of His power.
Preserve us, omnipotent God, full of grace and mercy, from the punishment of the impious; and concede to us grace and gifts for a holy life and a happy death and a joyous resurrection with all believers.”
2. The Dordrecht Confession of 1632 [Anabaptist]
Article XVIII -- Of The Resurrection Of The Dead And The Last Judgment. [page 78]
“Regarding the resurrection of the dead, we confess with the mouth, and believe with the heart, that according to the Scriptures all men who have died or fallen asleep, will, through the incomprehensible power of God, at the day of judgment, be raised up and made alive; and that these, together with all those who then remain alive, and who shall be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump, shall appear before the judgment seat of Christ, where the good shall be separated from the evil, and where every one shall receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad; and that the good or pious shall then further, as the blessed of their Father, be received by Christ into eternal life, where they shall receive that joy which eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, nor hath entered into the heart of man. Yea, where they shall reign and triumph with Christ forever and ever.
And that on the contrary, the wicked or impious, shall, as the accursed of God be cast into outer darkness; yea, into eternal hellish torments; where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched; and where - according to Holy Scripture - they can expect no comfort nor redemption throughout eternity.”
Confessions of English Baptist in Holland
A number of English Baptists fled to Holland to escape persecution in England. The following Confessions [3 - 6] are from some of these groups.
1. A True Confession by the English Baptists in Amsterdam, Holland [1596]
Article 16 [page 87].
“That this Kingdom shall be then fully perfected when He shall the second time come in glory with His mighty Angels unto judgment, to abolish all rule, authority and power, to put all His enemies under His feet, to separate and free His chosen from them forever, to punish the wicked with everlasting perdition from His presence, to gather, join, and carry the godly with Himself into endless glory, and then to deliver up the Kingdom to God, even the Father, so that the glory of the Father may be full and perfect in the Son, the glory of the Son in all His members, and God be all in all.”
2. Short Confession of Faith in XX Articles by John Smyth, 1609
Article 19 [page 101].
“That the dead [the living being instantly changed] will rise again with the same bodies; not the substance but the qualities being changed.”
Article 20 [page 101].
“That after the resurrection, all will be born to the tribunal of Christ, the judge, to be judged according to their works; the pious, after sentence of absolution, will enjoy eternal life with Christ in heaven; the wicked, condemned, will be punished with eternal torments in hell with the devil and his angels.”
3. A Short Confession of Faith by the English Baptists, of the Helwys party, in Holland [1610]
Article 38 [page 112].
“Lastly we believe and teach the resurrection of the dead, both the just and the unjust, as Paul [1 Corinthians 15] soundly teacheth and witnesseth: The soul shall be united to the body, every one shall be presented before the judgment seat of Christ Jesus, to receive in his own body wages according to his own works. And the righteous, whosoever hath lived holily, and through faith hath brought forth the works of love and mercy, shall enter into everlasting life with Christ Jesus, the Bridegroom of the Christian host. But the unsanctified, which have not known God, and have not obeyed the Gospel of Jesus Christ, shall go into everlasting fire. The almighty, gracious, merciful God, preserve us from the punishment of the ungodly, and grant us grace and gifts helpful to a holy life, saving death, and joyful resurrection with all the righteous. Amen.”
*******************************************************************************************
It should be noted that most of these confessions predated the false doctrine introduced by John Nelson Darby!
Continued
Those Scholars responsible for Baptist Confessions of Faith!
HISTORIC BAPTIST VIEWS {Extracted from my notes on Revelation.}
Throughout history Baptist have generally believed that the return of Jesus Christ will be followed immediately by a resurrection of all the dead, both the ‘redeemed’ and the ‘lost’, and a general judgment. This conclusion is based on information presented in Baptist Confessions of Faith by William L. Lumpkin. [Only one Confession, that of the Baptist Bible Union of 1923, presents a view other than a general resurrection and judgment.] Not all of the confessions in the book included statements about the Second Coming. Those that do are identified and the pertinent statements are presented in the following paragraphs. These statements are presented without comment regarding other aspects of doctrine. Also, Scripture references that provide a basis for the statements are omitted.
In some confessions the statements regarding a general judgment are more specific than those regarding a general resurrection. It is obvious from reading the various confessions that the question of a general resurrection and judgment versus multiple resurrections and judgments were neither dominant nor divisive issues among the earlier Baptist churches. Rather the primary issues regarded the person of Jesus Christ, the meaning of election, the extent and nature of the atonement, the mode and subjects for baptism, proper worship, and the involvement of Christians in the world government. It follows that since Baptists historically believed in a general resurrection and judgment they did not believe in an earthly millennial kingdom, they were either amillennialists or historic/covenant postmillennialists.
Anabaptist Confessions
The following confessions [1 & 2] are by Anabaptist groups residing in Holland[5]. While not all Anabaptist groups practiced immersion[6], they did reject infant baptism insisting that the Scriptures teach that only believers are to be baptized. The Mennonite and Amish groups have roots in the Anabaptist movement.
1. The Waterland Confession of 1580 or 1581 [Anabaptist]
Article XL -- Of Christ’s Return, Of The Resurrection Of The Dead, And Of The Last Judgment. [page 65]
“Lastly, we believe and teach that Jesus Christ, our glorious King and Lord, visibly just as he ascended, will return from heaven with power and great glory, and with Him all the holy angels, that He may be glorified in His saints and may be admired by all believers, and will manifest Himself as the Judge of the living and the dead. At that time all men, just and unjust, who have lived upon the earth and have died, will rise from the dead [with incorruption] and live again, their souls being reunited with their own bodies in which they have lived evilly or well. But those who are alive in that day and have not died, changed in a moment and in a twinkling of an eye, will put on incorruption, and the whole multitude of the human race will stand before the tribunal of Christ to report what each one has done in their body according to that which he has done whether good or evil. Then Jesus will separate the sheep from the goats as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, and will place the sheep on His right hand but the goats on the left, and will give sentence. The just who have lived here holily and have exercised all the works of charity and mercy , as the husband of that Christian multitude, He will take to Himself. They will enter with Him into eternal life and celestial joy and glory, where all will always be with the Lord and will possess forever that kingdom which God the Father had prepared for them from the beginning of the world. But the unrighteous who have not known God nor regarded the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, will be condemned to eternal fire, which was prepared for the Devil and his angels, and they will undergo sorrow and eternal perdition, from the face of the Lord and the glory of His power.
Preserve us, omnipotent God, full of grace and mercy, from the punishment of the impious; and concede to us grace and gifts for a holy life and a happy death and a joyous resurrection with all believers.”
2. The Dordrecht Confession of 1632 [Anabaptist]
Article XVIII -- Of The Resurrection Of The Dead And The Last Judgment. [page 78]
“Regarding the resurrection of the dead, we confess with the mouth, and believe with the heart, that according to the Scriptures all men who have died or fallen asleep, will, through the incomprehensible power of God, at the day of judgment, be raised up and made alive; and that these, together with all those who then remain alive, and who shall be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump, shall appear before the judgment seat of Christ, where the good shall be separated from the evil, and where every one shall receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad; and that the good or pious shall then further, as the blessed of their Father, be received by Christ into eternal life, where they shall receive that joy which eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, nor hath entered into the heart of man. Yea, where they shall reign and triumph with Christ forever and ever.
And that on the contrary, the wicked or impious, shall, as the accursed of God be cast into outer darkness; yea, into eternal hellish torments; where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched; and where - according to Holy Scripture - they can expect no comfort nor redemption throughout eternity.”
Confessions of English Baptist in Holland
A number of English Baptists fled to Holland to escape persecution in England. The following Confessions [3 - 6] are from some of these groups.
1. A True Confession by the English Baptists in Amsterdam, Holland [1596]
Article 16 [page 87].
“That this Kingdom shall be then fully perfected when He shall the second time come in glory with His mighty Angels unto judgment, to abolish all rule, authority and power, to put all His enemies under His feet, to separate and free His chosen from them forever, to punish the wicked with everlasting perdition from His presence, to gather, join, and carry the godly with Himself into endless glory, and then to deliver up the Kingdom to God, even the Father, so that the glory of the Father may be full and perfect in the Son, the glory of the Son in all His members, and God be all in all.”
2. Short Confession of Faith in XX Articles by John Smyth, 1609
Article 19 [page 101].
“That the dead [the living being instantly changed] will rise again with the same bodies; not the substance but the qualities being changed.”
Article 20 [page 101].
“That after the resurrection, all will be born to the tribunal of Christ, the judge, to be judged according to their works; the pious, after sentence of absolution, will enjoy eternal life with Christ in heaven; the wicked, condemned, will be punished with eternal torments in hell with the devil and his angels.”
3. A Short Confession of Faith by the English Baptists, of the Helwys party, in Holland [1610]
Article 38 [page 112].
“Lastly we believe and teach the resurrection of the dead, both the just and the unjust, as Paul [1 Corinthians 15] soundly teacheth and witnesseth: The soul shall be united to the body, every one shall be presented before the judgment seat of Christ Jesus, to receive in his own body wages according to his own works. And the righteous, whosoever hath lived holily, and through faith hath brought forth the works of love and mercy, shall enter into everlasting life with Christ Jesus, the Bridegroom of the Christian host. But the unsanctified, which have not known God, and have not obeyed the Gospel of Jesus Christ, shall go into everlasting fire. The almighty, gracious, merciful God, preserve us from the punishment of the ungodly, and grant us grace and gifts helpful to a holy life, saving death, and joyful resurrection with all the righteous. Amen.”
*******************************************************************************************
It should be noted that most of these confessions predated the false doctrine introduced by John Nelson Darby!
Continued
Last edited by a moderator:
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Part #2; HISTORIC BAPTIST VIEWS OF THE SECOND COMING OF JESUS CHRIST
Those Scholars responsible for Baptist Confessions of Faith!
HISTORIC BAPTIST VIEWS
Throughout history Baptist have generally believed that the return of Jesus Christ will be followed immediately by a resurrection of all the dead, both the ‘redeemed’ and the ‘lost’, and a general judgment. This conclusion is based on information presented in Baptist Confessions of Faith by William L. Lumpkin. [Only one Confession, that of the Baptist Bible Union of 1923, presents a view other than a general resurrection and judgment.] Not all of the confessions in the book included statements about the Second Coming. Those that do are identified and the pertinent statements are presented in the following paragraphs. These statements are presented without comment regarding other aspects of doctrine. Also, Scripture references that provide a basis for the statements are omitted.
In some confessions the statements regarding a general judgment are more specific than those regarding a general resurrection. It is obvious from reading the various confessions that the question of a general resurrection and judgment versus multiple resurrections and judgments were neither dominant nor divisive issues among the earlier Baptist churches. Rather the primary issues regarded the person of Jesus Christ, the meaning of election, the extent and nature of the atonement, the mode and subjects for baptism, proper worship, and the involvement of Christians in the world government. It follows that since Baptists historically believed in a general resurrection and judgment they did not believe in an earthly millennial kingdom, they were either amillennialists or historic/covenant postmillennialists.
Confessions of English Baptist in Holland Continued
4. A Declaration of Faith by the English People, Amsterdam, Holland [1611]
Article 26 [page 123].
“That that the dead shall rise again, and the living being changed in a moment, -having the same bodies in substance though different in qualities.”
Article 27 [page 123].
“That after the resurrection all men shall appear before the judgment seat of Christ to be judged according to their works, that the godly shall enjoy life Eternal, the wicked being condemned shall be tormented everlastingly in hell.”
5. Propositions and Conclusions concerning True Christian Religion, containing a Confession of Faith of certain English people, living at Amsterdam [1612]
Propositions 91-95, pages 141,142
“91. That all the bodies of all men that are dead, shall by the power of Christ, be raised up, out of his own proper seed, as corn out of seed rotting in the earth.
92. That these which live in the last day shall not die, but shall be changed in a moment; in a twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet, for the trump shall blow, and the dead shall be raised up incorruptible, and we shall be changed, not in substance but in qualities; for the bodies shall rise in honour, in power, in incorruption, and spiritual; being sown in dishonour, in weakness, in corruption, and natural.
93. But the bodies, being raised up, shall be joined to the souls, whereto formerly they were united; which at that time were preserved in the hands of the Lord.
94. That it is appointed to all men that they shall once die, and then cometh the judgment, and that the change of them that live on the earth at the last day, shall be as it were a death unto them.
95. That there shall be a general, and universal day of judgment, when every one shall receive according to the things that are done in the flesh, whether they be good or evil.”
Confessions of English Baptists in England
The following Confessions [7-11] are from Baptists in England. The earliest and most significant confession of the Baptists in England, the London Confession of 1844 does not mention the resurrection and judgment but does affirm the return and triumph of Jesus Christ.
1. The Midland Association Confession [1655]
Article 16 [page 200].
“That at the time appointed of the Lord, the dead bodies of all men, just and unjust shall rise out of their graves, that all may receive according to what they have done in their bodies, be it good or evil.”
2. The Somerset Confession [1656]
Article XL [page 214].
“That there is a day appointed, when the Lord shall raise the unjust as well as the righteous, and judge them all in righteousness, but every man in his own order, taking vengeance on them that know not God, and obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, whose punishment will be everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord.”
3. The Standard Confession [1660]
Article XX [page 231].
“That there shall be [through Christ who was dead but is alive again from the dead] a Resurrection of all men from the graves of the earth, both the just and the unjust, that is, the fleshly bodies of men, sown into the graves of the earth, corruptible, dishonourable, weak, natural, [which so considered cannot inherit the Kingdom of God] shall be raised again, incorruptible, in glory, in power, spiritual, and so considered, the bodies of the Saints [united again to their spirits] which here suffer for Christ, shall inherit the Kingdom, reigning together with Christ.”
Article XXI [page 231].
“That there shall be after the Resurrection from the graves of the earth, An eternal Judgment, at the appearing of Christ and His Kingdom, at which time of judgment which is unalterable, and irrevocable, every man shall receive according to the things done in his body.”
4. The Second London Confession [1677]
Chapter XXXI. Of the State of Man after Death and of the Resurrection of the Dead [page 293]
“1. The Bodies of Men after Death return to dust and see corruption; but their souls [which neither die nor sleep] having an immortal subsistence, immediately return to God who gave them; the Souls of the righteous then being made perfect in holiness, are received into Paradise where they are with Christ, and behold the face of God in light and glory; waiting for the full redemption of their bodies; and the souls of the wicked, are cast into hell; where they remain in torment and utter darkness, reserved to the judgment of the great day; besides these two places for Souls separated from their bodies, the Scripture acknowledgeth none.
2. At the last day such of the Saints as are found alive shall not sleep but shall be changed; and all the dead shall be raised up with the self same bodies, and none other; although with different qualities, which shall be reunited with their Souls again forever.
3. The bodies of the unjust shall by the power of Christ be raised to dishonour; the bodies of the just by His Spirit unto honour, and be made conformable to His own glorious body.”
Chapter XXXII. Of the Last Judgment [page 294]
“1. God hath appointed a Day wherein He will judge the world in Righteousness, by Jesus Christ; to Whom all power and judgment is given of the Father; in which Day not only the Apostate Angels shall be judged; but likewise all persons that have lived upon the Earth, shall appear before the tribunal of Christ; to give an account of their thoughts, Words, and Deeds, and to receive according to what they have done in the body, whether good or evil.
2. The end of Gods appointing this Day is for the manifestation of the glory of His Mercy, in the Eternal Salvation of the Elect, and of His Justice in the Eternal damnation of the Reprobate who are wicked and disobedient; for then shall the Righteous go into everlasting life, and receive the fullness of Joy, and Glory, with everlasting reward in the presence of the Lord; but the wicked who know not God, and obey not the Gospel of Jesus Christ, shall be cast into Eternal torments, and punished with everlasting destruction, from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power.
As Christ would have us to be certainly persuaded that there shall be a Day of judgment, both to deter all men from sin and for greater consolation of the godly, in their adversity; so will he have that day unknown to Men, that they may shake off all carnal security, and be always watchful, because they know not at what hour, the Lord will come; and may ever be prepared to say, Come Lord Jesus, Come quickly, Amen.”
*******************************************************************************************
It should be noted that most of these confessions predated the false doctrine introduced by John Nelson Darby!
Continued
Those Scholars responsible for Baptist Confessions of Faith!
HISTORIC BAPTIST VIEWS
Throughout history Baptist have generally believed that the return of Jesus Christ will be followed immediately by a resurrection of all the dead, both the ‘redeemed’ and the ‘lost’, and a general judgment. This conclusion is based on information presented in Baptist Confessions of Faith by William L. Lumpkin. [Only one Confession, that of the Baptist Bible Union of 1923, presents a view other than a general resurrection and judgment.] Not all of the confessions in the book included statements about the Second Coming. Those that do are identified and the pertinent statements are presented in the following paragraphs. These statements are presented without comment regarding other aspects of doctrine. Also, Scripture references that provide a basis for the statements are omitted.
In some confessions the statements regarding a general judgment are more specific than those regarding a general resurrection. It is obvious from reading the various confessions that the question of a general resurrection and judgment versus multiple resurrections and judgments were neither dominant nor divisive issues among the earlier Baptist churches. Rather the primary issues regarded the person of Jesus Christ, the meaning of election, the extent and nature of the atonement, the mode and subjects for baptism, proper worship, and the involvement of Christians in the world government. It follows that since Baptists historically believed in a general resurrection and judgment they did not believe in an earthly millennial kingdom, they were either amillennialists or historic/covenant postmillennialists.
Confessions of English Baptist in Holland Continued
4. A Declaration of Faith by the English People, Amsterdam, Holland [1611]
Article 26 [page 123].
“That that the dead shall rise again, and the living being changed in a moment, -having the same bodies in substance though different in qualities.”
Article 27 [page 123].
“That after the resurrection all men shall appear before the judgment seat of Christ to be judged according to their works, that the godly shall enjoy life Eternal, the wicked being condemned shall be tormented everlastingly in hell.”
5. Propositions and Conclusions concerning True Christian Religion, containing a Confession of Faith of certain English people, living at Amsterdam [1612]
Propositions 91-95, pages 141,142
“91. That all the bodies of all men that are dead, shall by the power of Christ, be raised up, out of his own proper seed, as corn out of seed rotting in the earth.
92. That these which live in the last day shall not die, but shall be changed in a moment; in a twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet, for the trump shall blow, and the dead shall be raised up incorruptible, and we shall be changed, not in substance but in qualities; for the bodies shall rise in honour, in power, in incorruption, and spiritual; being sown in dishonour, in weakness, in corruption, and natural.
93. But the bodies, being raised up, shall be joined to the souls, whereto formerly they were united; which at that time were preserved in the hands of the Lord.
94. That it is appointed to all men that they shall once die, and then cometh the judgment, and that the change of them that live on the earth at the last day, shall be as it were a death unto them.
95. That there shall be a general, and universal day of judgment, when every one shall receive according to the things that are done in the flesh, whether they be good or evil.”
Confessions of English Baptists in England
The following Confessions [7-11] are from Baptists in England. The earliest and most significant confession of the Baptists in England, the London Confession of 1844 does not mention the resurrection and judgment but does affirm the return and triumph of Jesus Christ.
1. The Midland Association Confession [1655]
Article 16 [page 200].
“That at the time appointed of the Lord, the dead bodies of all men, just and unjust shall rise out of their graves, that all may receive according to what they have done in their bodies, be it good or evil.”
2. The Somerset Confession [1656]
Article XL [page 214].
“That there is a day appointed, when the Lord shall raise the unjust as well as the righteous, and judge them all in righteousness, but every man in his own order, taking vengeance on them that know not God, and obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, whose punishment will be everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord.”
3. The Standard Confession [1660]
Article XX [page 231].
“That there shall be [through Christ who was dead but is alive again from the dead] a Resurrection of all men from the graves of the earth, both the just and the unjust, that is, the fleshly bodies of men, sown into the graves of the earth, corruptible, dishonourable, weak, natural, [which so considered cannot inherit the Kingdom of God] shall be raised again, incorruptible, in glory, in power, spiritual, and so considered, the bodies of the Saints [united again to their spirits] which here suffer for Christ, shall inherit the Kingdom, reigning together with Christ.”
Article XXI [page 231].
“That there shall be after the Resurrection from the graves of the earth, An eternal Judgment, at the appearing of Christ and His Kingdom, at which time of judgment which is unalterable, and irrevocable, every man shall receive according to the things done in his body.”
4. The Second London Confession [1677]
Chapter XXXI. Of the State of Man after Death and of the Resurrection of the Dead [page 293]
“1. The Bodies of Men after Death return to dust and see corruption; but their souls [which neither die nor sleep] having an immortal subsistence, immediately return to God who gave them; the Souls of the righteous then being made perfect in holiness, are received into Paradise where they are with Christ, and behold the face of God in light and glory; waiting for the full redemption of their bodies; and the souls of the wicked, are cast into hell; where they remain in torment and utter darkness, reserved to the judgment of the great day; besides these two places for Souls separated from their bodies, the Scripture acknowledgeth none.
2. At the last day such of the Saints as are found alive shall not sleep but shall be changed; and all the dead shall be raised up with the self same bodies, and none other; although with different qualities, which shall be reunited with their Souls again forever.
3. The bodies of the unjust shall by the power of Christ be raised to dishonour; the bodies of the just by His Spirit unto honour, and be made conformable to His own glorious body.”
Chapter XXXII. Of the Last Judgment [page 294]
“1. God hath appointed a Day wherein He will judge the world in Righteousness, by Jesus Christ; to Whom all power and judgment is given of the Father; in which Day not only the Apostate Angels shall be judged; but likewise all persons that have lived upon the Earth, shall appear before the tribunal of Christ; to give an account of their thoughts, Words, and Deeds, and to receive according to what they have done in the body, whether good or evil.
2. The end of Gods appointing this Day is for the manifestation of the glory of His Mercy, in the Eternal Salvation of the Elect, and of His Justice in the Eternal damnation of the Reprobate who are wicked and disobedient; for then shall the Righteous go into everlasting life, and receive the fullness of Joy, and Glory, with everlasting reward in the presence of the Lord; but the wicked who know not God, and obey not the Gospel of Jesus Christ, shall be cast into Eternal torments, and punished with everlasting destruction, from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power.
As Christ would have us to be certainly persuaded that there shall be a Day of judgment, both to deter all men from sin and for greater consolation of the godly, in their adversity; so will he have that day unknown to Men, that they may shake off all carnal security, and be always watchful, because they know not at what hour, the Lord will come; and may ever be prepared to say, Come Lord Jesus, Come quickly, Amen.”
*******************************************************************************************
It should be noted that most of these confessions predated the false doctrine introduced by John Nelson Darby!
Continued
Last edited by a moderator:
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Part #3: HISTORIC BAPTIST VIEWS OF THE SECOND COMING OF JESUS CHRIST
Those Scholars responsible for Baptist Confessions of Faith!
HISTORIC BAPTIST VIEWS
Throughout history Baptist have generally believed that the return of Jesus Christ will be followed immediately by a resurrection of all the dead, both the ‘redeemed’ and the ‘lost’, and a general judgment. This conclusion is based on information presented in Baptist Confessions of Faith by William L. Lumpkin. [Only one Confession, that of the Baptist Bible Union of 1923, presents a view other than a general resurrection and judgment.] Not all of the confessions in the book included statements about the Second Coming. Those that do are identified and the pertinent statements are presented in the following paragraphs. These statements are presented without comment regarding other aspects of doctrine. Also, Scripture references that provide a basis for the statements are omitted.
In some confessions the statements regarding a general judgment are more specific than those regarding a general resurrection. It is obvious from reading the various confessions that the question of a general resurrection and judgment versus multiple resurrections and judgments were neither dominant nor divisive issues among the earlier Baptist churches. Rather the primary issues regarded the person of Jesus Christ, the meaning of election, the extent and nature of the atonement, the mode and subjects for baptism, proper worship, and the involvement of Christians in the world government. It follows that since Baptists historically believed in a general resurrection and judgment they did not believe in an earthly millennial kingdom, they were either amillennialists or historic/covenant postmillennialists.
Confessions of English Baptists in England Continued
5. The Orthodox Creed [1679]
Article XLIX. Of the State of man after Death and of the Resurrection of the Dead [page 333]
“The bodies of men after death return to dust and see corruption; but their souls, or spirits, which neither die nor sleep, having an immortal subsistence, immediately return to God who gave them; the souls of the righteous then being made perfect in holiness, are received into paradise where they are with Christ, and behold the face of God in light and glory; waiting for the full redemption of their bodies; and the souls of the wicked, are cast into hell; where they remain in torment and utter darkness, reserved to the judgment of the great day. And besides these two places for souls separated from their bodies, the holy scripture mentions none. At the last day such of the saints as are found alive shall not sleep but be changed; and all the dead shall be raised up with the self same bodies and none other; although with different qualities, which shall be reunited with their souls forever and forever, but the bodies of the unjust shall by the power of Christ, as a severe and just judge, be raised to dishonour; and the bodies of the just and righteous by His Spirit, as He is the head of the catholic Church, unto honour, and be made conformable with His glorious body, and shall enjoy everlasting life; in singing perpetual praises and hallelujahs to God for ever and ever. Amen.”
Article L. Of the last Judgment [page 334]
“And lastly, we believe God hath appointed a day, wherein He will judge the world in righteousness, by Jesus Christ, to Whom all power, and judgment is given of the Father; in which day, not only the Apostate Angels shall be judged; but likewise all persons that have lived upon the Earth, shall appear before the tribunal of Christ; to give an account of their thoughts, words, and deeds, and shall receive a just sentence, according to what they have done in their bodies, whether good or evil, when God according to His purpose, will manifest the glory of His mercy, in the salvation of His elect, and of His justice in the eternal damnation of the wicked and disobedient; for then shall the righteous go into everlasting life, and receive the fullness of joy and glory, but the wicked who know not God, nor obey the gospel offered them in Christ, shall be cast into everlasting torments, and punished with everlasting destruction, from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power. Amen.”
Confessions of Baptists in America
The following Confessions [12-17] are by American Baptists.
1. The Philadelphia Confession of Faith [1742]
The Philadelphia Confession of Faith was not printed in the referenced book but is apparently the same as the Second London Confession with the addition of two articles addressing singing in the church and the laying on of hands.
2.. The Kehukee [North Carolina] Association [1777]
Article 14 [page 356].
“We believe in the resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust, and a general judgment.”
3. The Sandy Creek Association [1777]
Article V [page 358].
“We believe that there will be a resurrection from the dead and a general or universal judgment, and that the happiness of the righteous and punishment of the wicked will be eternal.”
4. The New Hampshire Confession [1833]
Article XVIII. Of the World to Come [page 367]
“We believe that the end of this world is approaching: that at the last day, Christ will descend from heaven, and raise the dead from the grave to final retribution; that a solemn separation will then take place; that the wicked will be adjudged to endless punishment and the righteous to endless joy; and that this judgment will fix forever the final state of men in heaven or hell, on principles of righteousness.”
5. Articles of Faith-Baptist Bible Union [1923]
Article XVIII. Of the Resurrection, Return of Christ and Related Events[page 389]
“We believe in and accept the sacred Scriptures upon these subjects at their full and face value.
a. The Bodily Resurrection
b. The Ascension
c. The High Priesthood
d. The Second Coming
e. The Resurrection of the Righteous Dead
f. The Change of the Living in Christ
g. On the Throne of David
h. His Reign on Earth”
6. Southern Baptist Convention [1925 and 1963]
Article X. Last Things [page 397]
“God, in His own time and in His own way, will bring the world to its appropriate end. According to His promise, Jesus Christ will return personally and visibly in glory to the earth; the dead will be raised; and Christ will judge all men in righteousness. The unrighteous will be consigned to hell, the place of everlasting punishment. The righteous in their resurrected and glorified bodies will dwell forever in heaven with the Lord.”
Confessions of Other Baptists
The following Confessions [18-19] are by Baptists from other countries.
1. The Swedish Baptist Confession [1861]
Article 12 [page 409].
“We believe that this world is to come to an end; that our Lord Jesus Christ will again appear on the earth on the last day, wake up the dead from their graves, and execute a general judgment in which all wicked men will be irrevocably condemned to eternal punishment, while all believing and righteous men will be solemnly established in their possession of the kingdom which was prepared for them from the beginning of the world.”
2.. The Baptist Convention of Ontario and Quebec [1925]
[page 421]
“Maintains the doctrine of the resurrection of the dead, both the just and the unjust, and the general judgment.”
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It should be noted that most of these confessions predated the false doctrine introduced by John Nelson Darby!
Those Scholars responsible for Baptist Confessions of Faith!
HISTORIC BAPTIST VIEWS
Throughout history Baptist have generally believed that the return of Jesus Christ will be followed immediately by a resurrection of all the dead, both the ‘redeemed’ and the ‘lost’, and a general judgment. This conclusion is based on information presented in Baptist Confessions of Faith by William L. Lumpkin. [Only one Confession, that of the Baptist Bible Union of 1923, presents a view other than a general resurrection and judgment.] Not all of the confessions in the book included statements about the Second Coming. Those that do are identified and the pertinent statements are presented in the following paragraphs. These statements are presented without comment regarding other aspects of doctrine. Also, Scripture references that provide a basis for the statements are omitted.
In some confessions the statements regarding a general judgment are more specific than those regarding a general resurrection. It is obvious from reading the various confessions that the question of a general resurrection and judgment versus multiple resurrections and judgments were neither dominant nor divisive issues among the earlier Baptist churches. Rather the primary issues regarded the person of Jesus Christ, the meaning of election, the extent and nature of the atonement, the mode and subjects for baptism, proper worship, and the involvement of Christians in the world government. It follows that since Baptists historically believed in a general resurrection and judgment they did not believe in an earthly millennial kingdom, they were either amillennialists or historic/covenant postmillennialists.
Confessions of English Baptists in England Continued
5. The Orthodox Creed [1679]
Article XLIX. Of the State of man after Death and of the Resurrection of the Dead [page 333]
“The bodies of men after death return to dust and see corruption; but their souls, or spirits, which neither die nor sleep, having an immortal subsistence, immediately return to God who gave them; the souls of the righteous then being made perfect in holiness, are received into paradise where they are with Christ, and behold the face of God in light and glory; waiting for the full redemption of their bodies; and the souls of the wicked, are cast into hell; where they remain in torment and utter darkness, reserved to the judgment of the great day. And besides these two places for souls separated from their bodies, the holy scripture mentions none. At the last day such of the saints as are found alive shall not sleep but be changed; and all the dead shall be raised up with the self same bodies and none other; although with different qualities, which shall be reunited with their souls forever and forever, but the bodies of the unjust shall by the power of Christ, as a severe and just judge, be raised to dishonour; and the bodies of the just and righteous by His Spirit, as He is the head of the catholic Church, unto honour, and be made conformable with His glorious body, and shall enjoy everlasting life; in singing perpetual praises and hallelujahs to God for ever and ever. Amen.”
Article L. Of the last Judgment [page 334]
“And lastly, we believe God hath appointed a day, wherein He will judge the world in righteousness, by Jesus Christ, to Whom all power, and judgment is given of the Father; in which day, not only the Apostate Angels shall be judged; but likewise all persons that have lived upon the Earth, shall appear before the tribunal of Christ; to give an account of their thoughts, words, and deeds, and shall receive a just sentence, according to what they have done in their bodies, whether good or evil, when God according to His purpose, will manifest the glory of His mercy, in the salvation of His elect, and of His justice in the eternal damnation of the wicked and disobedient; for then shall the righteous go into everlasting life, and receive the fullness of joy and glory, but the wicked who know not God, nor obey the gospel offered them in Christ, shall be cast into everlasting torments, and punished with everlasting destruction, from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power. Amen.”
Confessions of Baptists in America
The following Confessions [12-17] are by American Baptists.
1. The Philadelphia Confession of Faith [1742]
The Philadelphia Confession of Faith was not printed in the referenced book but is apparently the same as the Second London Confession with the addition of two articles addressing singing in the church and the laying on of hands.
2.. The Kehukee [North Carolina] Association [1777]
Article 14 [page 356].
“We believe in the resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust, and a general judgment.”
3. The Sandy Creek Association [1777]
Article V [page 358].
“We believe that there will be a resurrection from the dead and a general or universal judgment, and that the happiness of the righteous and punishment of the wicked will be eternal.”
4. The New Hampshire Confession [1833]
Article XVIII. Of the World to Come [page 367]
“We believe that the end of this world is approaching: that at the last day, Christ will descend from heaven, and raise the dead from the grave to final retribution; that a solemn separation will then take place; that the wicked will be adjudged to endless punishment and the righteous to endless joy; and that this judgment will fix forever the final state of men in heaven or hell, on principles of righteousness.”
5. Articles of Faith-Baptist Bible Union [1923]
Article XVIII. Of the Resurrection, Return of Christ and Related Events[page 389]
“We believe in and accept the sacred Scriptures upon these subjects at their full and face value.
a. The Bodily Resurrection
b. The Ascension
c. The High Priesthood
d. The Second Coming
e. The Resurrection of the Righteous Dead
f. The Change of the Living in Christ
g. On the Throne of David
h. His Reign on Earth”
6. Southern Baptist Convention [1925 and 1963]
Article X. Last Things [page 397]
“God, in His own time and in His own way, will bring the world to its appropriate end. According to His promise, Jesus Christ will return personally and visibly in glory to the earth; the dead will be raised; and Christ will judge all men in righteousness. The unrighteous will be consigned to hell, the place of everlasting punishment. The righteous in their resurrected and glorified bodies will dwell forever in heaven with the Lord.”
Confessions of Other Baptists
The following Confessions [18-19] are by Baptists from other countries.
1. The Swedish Baptist Confession [1861]
Article 12 [page 409].
“We believe that this world is to come to an end; that our Lord Jesus Christ will again appear on the earth on the last day, wake up the dead from their graves, and execute a general judgment in which all wicked men will be irrevocably condemned to eternal punishment, while all believing and righteous men will be solemnly established in their possession of the kingdom which was prepared for them from the beginning of the world.”
2.. The Baptist Convention of Ontario and Quebec [1925]
[page 421]
“Maintains the doctrine of the resurrection of the dead, both the just and the unjust, and the general judgment.”
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It should be noted that most of these confessions predated the false doctrine introduced by John Nelson Darby!
It should also be noted that this all predated the bible being totally translated into all the books. The invention of the printing press. The scripture now could be given to everyone in printed form. Until the invention of the printing press the Scriptures were unknown to the common people. Each copy of scripture to this point had to be transcribed by hand. Limiting the number of Bibles available. The printing press came to the forefront in the middle of the 16th century. John Gutenberg of Germany invented the printing press in about A.D. 1550. The first completed Book printed in Latin known as the “Mazarin Bible” or the “Bible of forty-two lines” because there were forty-two lines to a page. God gave man the ability to print His word. With this God-given, God-sent and God-timed invention of printing a new study of the Bible began. Lost truths were rediscovered. As many did, Calvin, Henry and John Knox among them. So too would the ability to find the dispensations and with the bible translated even these truths could be found. The Anabaptist believed in a return of Christ, they also believed in a Kingdom to come just as Henry and Calvin did.
Notice too the parts in red in your quote (my emphasis) follows right along with the teaching of the Rapture, Snatching away whatever it is termed. When the Rapture occurs believers face the Bema seat that is the judgment seat of Christ, 1st Corinthians 3.The dead in Christ rise first and we who are alive and remain shall be caught up (snatched away) even they believed a rapture would take place it is in Red white. Doctrines developed as the bible translations and printing made the bible more and more available and therefore doctrinal truths rediscovered.
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