A False Teaching on Christ’s Satisfaction Exposed

[Protestant]

I
Christ loved all and I cannot. There are too many differences between mankind and God to count. He died for all. His love was for all. That some refused Christ is not the fault of Christ. Don't pin man's sin on God. It doesn't diminish the love God had for them at all.

I suggest you preach a sermon which declares God’s love for mankind without exception.

Do not neglect the destiny of the many 'He loves.'

For their loving God will ultimately torture many of those 'He loves' for all eternity.

Anyone with a modicum of common sense understands that if God’s 'love' for believers and unbelievers is the same 'love,' then it is of no value whatsoever to tell the sinner, ‘God loves you.’

God’s 'love' extends to those in Hell as well as those in Heaven?

Really?

You are not the first Baptist pastor I have encountered who claims such a God-dishonoring doctrine.

I reiterate: God’s love is not a ‘mess’, nor does it contain ‘errors.’

 

[DHK]

I suggest you preach a sermon which declares God’s love for mankind without exception.

Do not neglect the destiny of the many 'He loves.'

For their loving God will ultimately torture many of those 'He loves' for all eternity.

Anyone with a modicum of common sense understands that if God’s 'love' for believers and unbelievers is the same 'love,' then it is of no value whatsoever to tell the sinner, ‘God loves you.’

God’s 'love' extends to those in Hell as well as those in Heaven?

Really?

You are not the first Baptist pastor I have encountered who claims such a God-dishonoring doctrine.

I reiterate: God’s love is not a ‘mess’, nor does it contain ‘errors.’

Let me simply quote an illustration from Dave Hunt's book, "What Love is This?"

Here we gain further insight into Calvin’s strange thinking: God illumines His grace by not extending it to multitudes! Somehow, by limiting His Grace, God enlarges our appreciation of the wellspring from which His mercy flows! And we are to praise Him all the more because He gives to only some that which He could extend to all? This is Calvinism. Boettner reminds us that “if any are saved God must choose out those who shall be the objects of His grace.”

Imagine a man in a barge, surrounded by a thousand desperate people who have no life jackets and who can keep themselves afloat in the icy water for only a few minutes. This man has the means of saving every one of them from a watery grave, and more than enough room and complete provisions on the barge for them all. He plucks only 150 from certain death, leaving the rest to drown because it pleases him to do so.

The next day, would the newspaper have banner headlines praising this man for being so kind, gracious, and merciful because he rescued 150 and left 850 to die—or even if he rescued 850 and left to their fate only 150, whom he could have saved? Hardly. By the conscience God has given to even the “totally depraved” and spiritually dead children of Adam, everyone would condemn such despicable behaviour.

No one with any sense of the morals that God has imprinted upon every conscience praise such a man for leaving anyone to believe that God refrains from rescuing millions, and perhaps billions, whom He just as well could have saved?
And we are to praise Him all the more for having limited His love, mercy, and grace? Such is the teaching of Calvinism!

 

[Protestant]

The arrogant claim of Protestant, inferring that he is the Protestant Pope leaving no room for soul liberty of any other Baptist. Sad!

There is a huge difference between soul liberty and heterodoxy.

Were you not claiming the office of 'pastor' your teachings could be dismissed as simply 'foolish.'

As a 'pastor' you will be held to an infinitely higher standard than others.

But as others on this board have pointed out numerous times, no matter the incontrovertible proofs, you stubbornly and proudly profess to be your own authority, rejecting even those orthodox teachings of your own Baptist camp.

You are a prime example as to why the heterodox teaching of a future Antichrist who will bring all the world's religions and factions together in unity is a ludicrous impossibility.

For the world is filled with men who refuse to listen to reason, no matter how sound, no matter how responsible and authoritative the source.

They would rather debate to the death than capitulate to the truth.

 

[DHK]

There is a huge difference between soul liberty and heterodoxy.

You are the one accusing me of heterodoxy when it is apparent that you don't know what many Baptists believe. That is sad. You haven't done your homework. There are many different stripes of Baptists. You want to classify them all into one group--perhaps YOUR group. Again, you are attacking soul liberty.

Were you not claiming the office of 'pastor' your teachings could be dismissed as simply 'foolish.'

My views, convictions, can be defended by the Bible. You are a Calvinist. Obviously you disagree. I don't believe that Calvinism can be properly defended from the Word of God. In fact it came 1500 years after Christ.

As a 'pastor' you will be held to an infinitely higher standard than others.

But as others on this board have pointed out numerous times, no matter the incontrovertible proofs, you stubbornly and proudly profess to be your own authority, rejecting even those orthodox teachings of your own Baptist camp.

And what would you like me to do? Cave into the Calvinist camp?
Not a chance! I can link people to many of your posts that are completely unorthodox where it seems you go off the deep end in attacking the RCC and linking the pope to the Antichrist in very extreme ways. Unorthodox posts? Yes. Heterodoxy? In today's world, very!

You are a prime example as to why the heterodox teaching of a future Antichrist who will bring all the world's religions and factions together in unity is a ludicrous impossibility.

I believe in the rapture, so it really doesn't matter.

For the world is filled with men who refuse to listen to reason, no matter how sound, no matter how responsible and authoritative the source.

They would rather debate to the death than capitulate to the truth.

It seems that you are the one that is refusing to listen to truth here.
You are not given to reason any longer. You have turned to attack mode.

 

[Protestant]

Let me simply quote an illustration from Dave Hunt's book, "What Love is This?"

I’m sure Dave Hunt’s book is one which has held you in awe for years.

Dave Hunt had a few things right. Unfortunately, this was not one of them.

The moral? Be damned sure you know the subject you are teaching, for your words may come back to haunt you for all eternity.

Hunt’s analogy fails on several levels.

First, mankind does not know the danger they face.

Nor will they believe it when warned.

They are blind, deaf and dead to spiritual truths warning of eternal damnation.

They exist in a world of false security.

Thus, the portrait of mankind acknowledging they are floating in icy waters, yelling ‘Save me!’ is false.

We Christians know the danger to be very real, but only after the Lord has given us the mind of Christ to discern as Christ discerns.

Secondly, God is in no way obligated to man.

All that man has and is (of a positive nature) he owes to God.

Thirdly, salvation is owed no man. Nor does any man earn it.

Death is his wages, justice his reward.

Fourthly, the very definition of grace mandates it is God’s to give or withhold as He wills.

“I will have mercy upon whom I will have mercy.”

Fifthly, whosoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

This eternal promise by God is relevant to those who have come to the divine realization they are sinking and going down fast.

Such a revelation is due to the regenerative power of the Spirit who awakens in the spiritually dead sinner the ability to now discern divine truth:
He is doomed, but God has graciously sent him the Savior Jesus Christ, who alone has the power to save him from the damnation his sins rightly deserve.

Sixthly, God loses none He purposed to save.

Conclusion: God's love is not the false caricature as depicted by Dave Hunt or Pastor DHK.

 

[DHK]

I’m sure Dave Hunt’s book is one which has held you in awe for years.

Dave Hunt had a few things right. Unfortunately, this was not one of them.

The moral? Be damned sure you know the subject you are teaching, for your words may come back to haunt you for all eternity.

Hunt’s analogy fails on several levels.

First, mankind does not know the danger they face.

Nor will they believe it when warned.

They are blind, deaf and dead to spiritual truths warning of eternal damnation.

They exist in a world of false security.

Thus, the portrait of mankind acknowledging they are floating in icy waters, yelling ‘Save me!’ is false.

If it is false it is because you haven't done your duty. If those in America, or in any other place in the world does not know of the gospel and the reality of rejecting it then why don't they? The Great Commission has never been rescinded, and is as much your responsibility as is anyone else's.
Your attitude of lethargy expressed here is terrible.

We Christians know the danger to be very real, but only after the Lord has given us the mind of Christ to discern as Christ discerns.

How did you become a Christian?
How do you know that you are one of the elect?
How can you be sure you are one of the elect?
On what basis can you claim to have the mind of Christ?

Secondly, God is in no way obligated to man.

God doesn't obligate himself in the sense you say, but he does not go against his promises. He is not a liar. And he does not go against his nature.
He created man in his own image.
He gave to man the command to "love your neighbor as yourself."
This command is part of the moral law that is in the heart of every man--regenerate or not.
If God has commanded man to love his neighbor as himself, and love is a quality that is innate in man, that he should do good to his neighbor, then should that not also be the same quality found in God--that he should express His love to all men, who He could save if he has the power to save, and he does?

All that man has and is (of a positive nature) he owes to God.

Thirdly, salvation is owed no man. Nor does any man earn it.

Death is his wages, justice his reward.

Fourthly, the very definition of grace mandates it is God’s to give or withhold as He wills.

God's grace is a free gift. It is undeserved. It was demonstrated on the cross when Christ gave his life as a sacrifice for all. All who believe on Him, he graciously bestows on them His salvation. Salvation is by grace through faith.

“I will have mercy upon whom I will have mercy.”

His mercy endures forever; his compassions fail not.
He is merciful to all that call upon his name.

Fifthly, whosoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

That is an important truth that Calvinists need to learn.

This eternal promise by God is relevant to those who have come to the divine realization they are sinking and going down fast.

Rom 10:14
(14) How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
--Are you keeping your end of the deal?

Such a revelation is due to the regenerative power of the Spirit who awakens in the spiritually dead sinner the ability to now discern divine truth:
He is doomed, but God has graciously sent him the Savior Jesus Christ, who alone has the power to save him from the damnation his sins rightly deserve.

This statement is complete error as I have shown time and again.
There is no statement in the Bible where it says regeneration produces faith, or that God gives faith to the unregenerate in order to be saved. This is unbiblical and complete nonsense.

 

[Rebel]

I’m sure Dave Hunt’s book is one which has held you in awe for years.

Dave Hunt had a few things right. Unfortunately, this was not one of them.

The moral? Be damned sure you know the subject you are teaching, for your words may come back to haunt you for all eternity.

Hunt’s analogy fails on several levels.

First, mankind does not know the danger they face.

Nor will they believe it when warned.

They are blind, deaf and dead to spiritual truths warning of eternal damnation.

They exist in a world of false security.

Thus, the portrait of mankind acknowledging they are floating in icy waters, yelling ‘Save me!’ is false.

We Christians know the danger to be very real, but only after the Lord has given us the mind of Christ to discern as Christ discerns.

Secondly, God is in no way obligated to man.

All that man has and is (of a positive nature) he owes to God.

Thirdly, salvation is owed no man. Nor does any man earn it.

Death is his wages, justice his reward.

Fourthly, the very definition of grace mandates it is God’s to give or withhold as He wills.

“I will have mercy upon whom I will have mercy.”

Fifthly, whosoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

This eternal promise by God is relevant to those who have come to the divine realization they are sinking and going down fast.

Such a revelation is due to the regenerative power of the Spirit who awakens in the spiritually dead sinner the ability to now discern divine truth:
He is doomed, but God has graciously sent him the Savior Jesus Christ, who alone has the power to save him from the damnation his sins rightly deserve.

Sixthly, God loses none He purposed to save.

Conclusion: God's love is not the false caricature as depicted by Dave Hunt or Pastor DHK.

Unless the Bible was written in the 16th century, and by Calvin, you are in trouble with your doctrine. Or maybe the Bible fell out of the sky and hit Calvin on the head, and the blow caused him to think he saw his doctrines there.

Nobody saw for 1500 years the doctrines you spout. How does it feel to know that your beliefs are only 500 years old when the church is 2000 years old?

 

[Protestant]

If God has commanded man to love his neighbor as himself, and love is a quality that is innate in man, that he should do good to his neighbor, then should that not also be the same quality found in God--that he should express His love to all men, who He could save if he has the power to save, and he does?

I encourage you to review how God in Christ ‘loved’ His neighbors, the Pharisees, Sadducees and scribes.

With brutal, unmitigated honesty He exposed their wretched hypocrisy and lies.

Matt. 23 would be an excellent starting point for your study.

We Christians do not show love for neighbor when we lie by telling them God loves them.

Never did Jesus walk the streets shouting, “God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life. Join me at 11 AM at my local Baptist ‘assembly’ to hear the Good News.”

Scripture is radiantly clear.

We are born children of God’s wrath. (Eph. 2:2)

Unbelievers have the wrath of God (continually) abiding on them. (John 3:36)

I’ve no doubt that Pastor DHK will do his utmost to discover a way to change the plain meaning of ‘the wrath of God’ into ‘the love of God.’

Lying to the audience is an excellent strategy to gain many new adherents who may possibly have large purse strings.

Behold the abundance of mega-churches founded on lies and false hopes.

 

[Protestant]

Protestant wrote:

"Fifthly, whosoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. "

That is an important truth that Calvinists need to learn.

But alas, when confronted with the verses which follow this Scripture, you and your fellow Pelagian/Arminians are at a loss to explain God’s love for all mankind without exception.

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

For untold millennia the vast majority of mankind was bereft of both the Word of God, the way of salvation and preachers of the Gospel.

Where, I pray tell, was the love of God for those billions of lost souls?

Romans 1 explains all mankind have no excuse in denying the existence of God.

However, acknowledging the existence of God is far different from believing upon the person and work of Jesus Christ, God in the flesh, whose name is above all names.

if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. (John 8:24)

Billions of souls could not believe on Jesus because they have not heard of Him, or the way of salvation.

They all died in their sins.

Perhaps you will find a way to avoid the necessity of believing on Jesus for those poor hapless souls.

Baptist Billy Graham did. They found God in nature, he claims.

That was the best they could do, so God accepts them as they are.

Scary?

Very.

 

[savedbymercy]

If it is false it is because you haven't done your duty. If those in America, or in any other place in the world does not know of the gospel and the reality of rejecting it then why don't they? The Great Commission has never been rescinded, and is as much your responsibility as is anyone else's.
Your attitude of lethargy expressed here is terrible.


How did you become a Christian?
How do you know that you are one of the elect?
How can you be sure you are one of the elect?
On what basis can you claim to have the mind of Christ?


God doesn't obligate himself in the sense you say, but he does not go against his promises. He is not a liar. And he does not go against his nature.
He created man in his own image.
He gave to man the command to "love your neighbor as yourself."
This command is part of the moral law that is in the heart of every man--regenerate or not.
If God has commanded man to love his neighbor as himself, and love is a quality that is innate in man, that he should do good to his neighbor, then should that not also be the same quality found in God--that he should express His love to all men, who He could save if he has the power to save, and he does?


God's grace is a free gift. It is undeserved. It was demonstrated on the cross when Christ gave his life as a sacrifice for all. All who believe on Him, he graciously bestows on them His salvation. Salvation is by grace through faith.


His mercy endures forever; his compassions fail not.
He is merciful to all that call upon his name.


That is an important truth that Calvinists need to learn.


Rom 10:14
(14) How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
--Are you keeping your end of the deal?


This statement is complete error as I have shown time and again.
There is no statement in the Bible where it says regeneration produces faith, or that God gives faith to the unregenerate in order to be saved. This is unbiblical and complete nonsense.

Every one that Christ lived for and obeyed the Law for He believed for them! Faith is part of keeping the Law Matt 23:23 !

 

[DHK]

I encourage you to review how God in Christ ‘loved’ His neighbors, the Pharisees, Sadducees and scribes.

With brutal, unmitigated honesty He exposed their wretched hypocrisy and lies.

Matt. 23 would be an excellent starting point for your study.

Why would I start there?
Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

Luk 2:6 And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered.
Luk 2:7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.
Luk 2:8 And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.
Luk 2:9 And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.
Luk 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
Luk 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
Luk 2:12 And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.
Luk 2:13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,
Luk 2:14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.

Joh 19:1 Then Pilate therefore took Jesus, and scourged him.
Joh 19:2 And the soldiers platted a crown of thorns, and put it on his head, and they put on him a purple robe,
Joh 19:3 And said, Hail, King of the Jews! and they smote him with their hands.
Joh 19:4 Pilate therefore went forth again, and saith unto them, Behold, I bring him forth to you, that ye may know that I find no fault in him.
Joh 19:5 Then came Jesus forth, wearing the crown of thorns, and the purple robe. And Pilate saith unto them, Behold the man!
Joh 19:6 When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Take ye him, and crucify him: for I find no fault in him.
Joh 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.
Joh 19:8 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he was the more afraid;
Joh 19:9 And went again into the judgment hall, and saith unto Jesus, Whence art thou? But Jesus gave him no answer.
Joh 19:10 Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee?
Joh 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.
Joh 19:12 And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Jews cried out, saying, If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar's friend: whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar.
Joh 19:13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.
Joh 19:14 And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!
Joh 19:15 But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.
Joh 19:16 Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led him away.
Joh 19:17 And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:
Joh 19:18 Where they crucified him, and two other with him, on either side one, and Jesus in the midst.
Joh 19:19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.
Joh 19:20 This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.
Joh 19:21 Then said the chief priests of the Jews to Pilate, Write not, The King of the Jews; but that he said, I am King of the Jews.
Joh 19:22 Pilate answered, What I have written I have written.
Joh 19:23 Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also his coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout.
Joh 19:24 They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did.
Joh 19:25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
Joh 19:26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
Joh 19:27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
Joh 19:28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
Joh 19:29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.
Joh 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Jesus came from the glories of heaven, God incarnate, born into the lowliest of circumstances, lived among men a perfect and sinless life and became a sinless sacrifice for us all. What love he had.
Greater love has no man than a man lay down his life for another.
And he did. He laid down his life for the sins of the world, for every man.

The love of God is incomprehensible. You try to understand it, but you cannot. In fact the attitude of the Calvinist toward God's love borders on libeling God. The doctrine of reprobation is not taught in the Bible and contradicts the nature of a God of love.

We Christians do not show love for neighbor when we lie by telling them God loves them.

Then your God is not the God of the Bible, for God, the Lord Jesus Christ died for all and loved all.
Jesus commanded his apostles to "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature." He was concerned that everyone in all the world would hear the gospel and be saved. He still is. His love is toward all.

Never did Jesus walk the streets shouting, “God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life. Join me at 11 AM at my local Baptist ‘assembly’ to hear the Good News.”

He said:
Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Joh 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Joh 10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

Joh 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Joh 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Joh 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

Joh 6:48 I am that bread of life.

Joh 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Scripture is radiantly clear.

Yes it is!! I hope you consider what I posted.

We are born children of God’s wrath. (Eph. 2:2)

Unbelievers have the wrath of God (continually) abiding on them. (John 3:36)

I’ve no doubt that Pastor DHK will do his utmost to discover a way to change the plain meaning of ‘the wrath of God’ into ‘the love of God.’

Lying to the audience is an excellent strategy to gain many new adherents who may possibly have large purse strings.

Behold the abundance of mega-churches founded on lies and false hopes.

First accusing me of being a liar does point to the depravity of the human heart.
That sinful heart is in need of a Savior. That saviour is Jesus Christ.
It is Jesus that says: "Come unto me all...
Whosoever shall believe on me shall be saved...
Over and over again, Jesus gave the invitation to: Come, believe, etc.

 

[DHK]

Every one that Christ lived for and obeyed the Law for He believed for them! Faith is part of keeping the Law Matt 23:23 !

No man has kept the law--no man.
If your salvation is dependent upon keeping the law then even with Christ's help you still will not make it.

 

[savedbymercy]

No man has kept the law--no man.
If your salvation is dependent upon keeping the law then even with Christ's help you still will not make it.

Do you deny that the Man Christ Jesus kept the Law?

 

[DHK]

Protestant wrote:

"Fifthly, whosoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. "

That was the best they could do, so God accepts them as they are.

Scary?

Very.

Perhaps it is scary. Maybe more for you than for me.
You answer first.

How can you be sure you are one of the elect? How do you know for absolutely sure?

 

[DHK]

Do you deny that the Man Christ Jesus kept the Law?

Jesus did not die for himself. Thus your statement is simply a red herring.
This is your original statement:

Every one that Christ lived for and obeyed the Law for He believed for them! Faith is part of keeping the Law Matt 23:23 !

 

[savedbymercy]

Jesus did not die for himself. Thus your statement is simply a red herring.

Did Jesus Christ as a Man obey the Law of God? He was made under the Law Gal 4:4 and He was obedient Rom 5:19 !

 

[DHK]

Did Jesus Christ as a Man obey the Law of God? He was made under the Law Gal 4:4 and He was obedient Rom 5:19 !

Of course he did. He was God. He was Man, the perfect man--the God-man, and thus perfectly qualified to die for all the sins of all mankind throughout all generations.

 

[savedbymercy]

Of course he did. He was God. He was Man, the perfect man--the God-man, and thus perfectly qualified to die for all the sins of all mankind throughout all generations.

Well His obedience to the Law was not as a Private Person but as a Representative Head,as was Adam's disobedience was! Just as when Adam disobeyed God, Those He represented disobeyed God, and When Christ obeyed God those He represented obeyed God!

 

[SovereignGrace]

Why would I start there?
Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

Luk 2:6 And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered.
Luk 2:7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.
Luk 2:8 And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.
Luk 2:9 And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.
Luk 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
Luk 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
Luk 2:12 And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.
Luk 2:13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,
Luk 2:14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.

Joh 19:1 Then Pilate therefore took Jesus, and scourged him.
Joh 19:2 And the soldiers platted a crown of thorns, and put it on his head, and they put on him a purple robe,
Joh 19:3 And said, Hail, King of the Jews! and they smote him with their hands.
Joh 19:4 Pilate therefore went forth again, and saith unto them, Behold, I bring him forth to you, that ye may know that I find no fault in him.
Joh 19:5 Then came Jesus forth, wearing the crown of thorns, and the purple robe. And Pilate saith unto them, Behold the man!
Joh 19:6 When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Take ye him, and crucify him: for I find no fault in him.
Joh 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.
Joh 19:8 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he was the more afraid;
Joh 19:9 And went again into the judgment hall, and saith unto Jesus, Whence art thou? But Jesus gave him no answer.
Joh 19:10 Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee?
Joh 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.
Joh 19:12 And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Jews cried out, saying, If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar's friend: whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar.
Joh 19:13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.
Joh 19:14 And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!
Joh 19:15 But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.
Joh 19:16 Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led him away.
Joh 19:17 And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:
Joh 19:18 Where they crucified him, and two other with him, on either side one, and Jesus in the midst.
Joh 19:19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.
Joh 19:20 This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.
Joh 19:21 Then said the chief priests of the Jews to Pilate, Write not, The King of the Jews; but that he said, I am King of the Jews.
Joh 19:22 Pilate answered, What I have written I have written.
Joh 19:23 Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also his coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout.
Joh 19:24 They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did.
Joh 19:25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
Joh 19:26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
Joh 19:27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
Joh 19:28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
Joh 19:29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.
Joh 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Jesus came from the glories of heaven, God incarnate, born into the lowliest of circumstances, lived among men a perfect and sinless life and became a sinless sacrifice for us all. What love he had.
Greater love has no man than a man lay down his life for another.
And he did. He laid down his life for the sins of the world, for every man.

The love of God is incomprehensible. You try to understand it, but you cannot. In fact the attitude of the Calvinist toward God's love borders on libeling God. The doctrine of reprobation is not taught in the Bible and contradicts the nature of a God of love.


Then your God is not the God of the Bible, for God, the Lord Jesus Christ died for all and loved all.
Jesus commanded his apostles to "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature." He was concerned that everyone in all the world would hear the gospel and be saved. He still is. His love is toward all.


He said:
Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Joh 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Joh 10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

Joh 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Joh 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Joh 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

Joh 6:48 I am that bread of life.

Joh 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.


Yes it is!! I hope you consider what I posted.


First accusing me of being a liar does point to the depravity of the human heart.
That sinful heart is in need of a Savior. That saviour is Jesus Christ.
It is Jesus that says: "Come unto me all...
Whosoever shall believe on me shall be saved...
Over and over again, Jesus gave the invitation to: Come, believe, etc.

How could He have died for every man when many had died and went to torment before He came in the flesh? Did He die for them, too? Even those already in hell?

Then you say He died for every man when He stated “I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them. I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one. While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.[Jn 17:6-12]


And then He said but you do not believe because you are not my sheep.[Jn 10:26]

 

[DHK]

How could He have died for every man when many had died and went to torment before He came in the flesh? Did He die for them, too? Even those already in hell?

All of history centers on the cross. We look back to the cross. Before the cross they looked in faith to the cross.

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
--They didn't receive the promise of the coming of the Messiah or see him.
But they saw him by faith. The message is the same. They were saved by faith through the revelation that they were given.

Then you say He died for every man when He stated “I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them. I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one. While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.[Jn 17:6-12]

This is the Great High Priestly Prayer of Christ. Look carefully at the context of the prayer. He is praying specifically for his disciples. "I pray for them (his disciples), not for the world, but those you have given me."
--This prayer is specific to his disciples.

And then He said but you do not believe because you are not my sheep.[Jn 10:26]

[/quote]
John 10:27-30 he tells who his sheep are. He also proclaims his divinity in vs.30. They don't believe him. They pick up rocks to stone him. Why? Because he was proclaiming to be God though he was a man was the answer. This was a statement of unbelief by the Pharisees at that time. No, the Pharisees did not believe. They chose not to.