A Few Controversial Scriptures Examined

[OfLivingWaters]

Please pardon my intrusion OLW but a faith doctrine cannot be proven, i.e. one which you believe because it makes spiritual sense to you such as the dogma and doctrines concerning the Blessed Virgin Mary e.g. The Bodily Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary which has no scriptural evidence apart from the ex cathedra Tradition of the Church Magisterium for those who accept such as having the weight of Holy Scripture.

You accept it and believe it by faith which cannot be proven but only a witness given by your faith testimony.
Folks cannot prove you are wrong but can accept or reject your testimony as to true or not.

That is disingenuous of you . It is upheld by scripture. The only thing is, men of Pride simply reject it. Also, faith doctrines are proven that is what the scriptures are for.Since too much meat was cut from your Canon, you may not get the foundation, But, there is enough to touch base on who Christ's Ark of the New and better Covenant is.
2 Timothy 3:15-17
All Scripture is God-Breathed
…15From infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is God-breathed and is profitable for doctrine, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work.…

FAITH DOCTRINES ARE doctrines deduced from the language of the scriptures which are profitable for making doctrines. These Faith Doctrines are the BUILDING told of in scripture. It is the building of the spiritual Jerusalem. Those TRUE doctrines must remain !Those doctrines are the building, its walls , its pillars, its structure. They are proven by the foundation. The foundation is Christ. Therefore all doctrines made must be supported by the foundation and is why Paul says " Be careful how you build". So , those who build accurate doctrines based on the foundation , receive a reward. So this bunk you speak: Hank D. said:"Please pardon my intrusion OLW but a faith doctrine cannot be proven,"

It is this simple , if it is proven true with the scriptures then it is a faith doctrine. I can say with certainty, your doctrine of not being able to ask those who received their crown to pray for you , is a bunch of bunk. It denies the teaching- that all who run their race and win are gifted as being part of Christ's heavenly kingdom ........ As those given thrones , crowns and scepters etc.

As for Mary's assumption, how about this, prove she wasn't first, and prove that, what has already been pointed out to you is not so, then as usual, on behalf of the kingdom of heaven I will blow up your false doctrine how about that? After all the faithful are given spiritual weapons. I have many bombs.
Luke 12:11-12
Confessing Christ
…10And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. 11When you are brought before the synagogues, rulers, and authorities, do not worry about how to defend yourselves or what to say. 12For at that time the Holy Spirit will teach you what you should say.”…
Right here and right now I am before the authority of this forum Baptist Doctrine.
Exodus 4:12
Now go! I will help you as you speak, and I will teach you what to say."

Welcome to your Exodus , your deliverance out of false doctrines.
Deuteronomy 30:18-20
The Choice of Life or Death
…18I declare to you today that you will surely perish; you shall not prolong your days in the land you are crossing the Jordan to possess. 19I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you today that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing. So choose life, so that you and your descendants may live, 20and that you may love the LORD your God, obey Him, and hold fast to Him. For He is your life, and He will prolong your life in the land the LORD swore to give to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.”…

Deuteronomy 11:26
See, today I am setting before you a blessing and a curse--

I will step up, Confront.

 

[OfLivingWaters]

Hank D said: "Please pardon my intrusion OLW but a faith doctrine cannot be proven,"

That statement alone I have proven is a false doctrine. That very utterance is a lie. Where do all lies spawn from?

 

[HankD]

Deuteronomy 11:26
See, today I am setting before you a blessing and a curse--

I will step up, Confront.

Oh well...

 

[OfLivingWaters]

Oh well...

That Speaks volumes.
Proverbs 9:16-17
The Way of Folly
…16“Whoever is simple, let him turn in here!” To him who lacks judgment she says: 17“Stolen water is sweet, and bread eaten in secret is tasty!” 18But they do not know that the dead are there, that her guests are in the depths of Sheol.…
I t is clear that even satan can paste scriptural verses But the Confessing is done with ones mouth. Since it is clear to me that, you can not possibly do the (Confessing of the Incarnation )that 1John 4 says is as need of proof that the spirit of God dwells within, it is clear what you are Hank D. For one who can do the Confessing with his mouth knows that it is putting forth the Ark of the New and better Covenant, which includes the Ark Mary and the New Covenant Christ. Since you have mocked both,

I can assure you, that is Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. I had hope for you, but, Oh well.........It is clear you choose lawlessness the curse of God .
Matthew 7:21-23
A Tree and its Fruit
…21Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’…

It is clear many just use His name but nothing is done in it or by it.

 

[37818]

Please pardon my intrusion OLW but a faith doctrine cannot be proven, i.e. one which you believe because it makes spiritual sense to you such as . . . .

Wow. I have to disagree here. Every belief, "faith doctrine" has some kind of basis, at the very least. The burden of proof is always the obligation to prove one's assertion.

 

[HankD]

Wow. I have to disagree here. Every belief, "faith doctrine" has some kind of basis, at the very least. The burden of proof is always the obligation to prove one's assertion.

The decision to believe a doctrine is based on faith either in the scriptures, the church writings, writings of the pope,etc.
Catholic teaching is that Mary was taken up bodily into heaven at her death. Nowhere is this to be found in scripture.

 

[HankD]

Hank D said: "Please pardon my intrusion OLW but a faith doctrine cannot be proven,"

That statement alone I have proven is a false doctrine. That very utterance is a lie. Where do all lies spawn from?

You seem to have that knowledge, do tell us.

 

[HankD]

That Speaks volumes.
Proverbs 9:16-17
The Way of Folly
…16“Whoever is simple, let him turn in here!” To him who lacks judgment she says: 17“Stolen water is sweet, and bread eaten in secret is tasty!” 18But they do not know that the dead are there, that her guests are in the depths of Sheol.…
I t is clear that even satan can paste scriptural verses But the Confessing is done with ones mouth. Since it is clear to me that, you can not possibly do the (Confessing of the Incarnation )that 1John 4 says is as need of proof that the spirit of God dwells within, it is clear what you are Hank D. For one who can do the Confessing with his mouth knows that it is putting forth the Ark of the New and better Covenant, which includes the Ark Mary and the New Covenant Christ. Since you have mocked both,

I can assure you, that is Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. I had hope for you, but, Oh well.........It is clear you choose lawlessness the curse of God .
Matthew 7:21-23
A Tree and its Fruit
…21Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’…

It is clear many just use His name but nothing is done in it or by it.

Thank you for your "blessing" OLW, yes it does speak volumes.

 

[HankD]

Those who have faith in God and his word need no other evidence or proof.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

 

[robycop3]

It is (to or unto death). Michal had no children that is all that simply means. mary not being affected by the curse because of her Immaculate Conception (which happened at the annunciation and not before) purified her and the enmity between her and satan was there THE HOLY SPIRIT. She therefore would not be barren .
2 Samuel 6:20-23
20 Then David returned to bless his household. And Michal the daughter of Saul came out to meet David, and said, How glorious was the king of Israel to day, who uncovered himself to day in the eyes of the handmaids of his servants, as one of the vain fellows shamelessly uncovereth himself!

21 And David said unto Michal, It was before the Lord, which chose me before thy father, and before all his house, to appoint me ruler over the people of the Lord, over Israel: therefore will I play before the Lord.

22 And I will yet be more vile than thus, and will be base in mine own sight: and of the maidservants which thou hast spoken of, of them shall I be had in honour.

23 Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death.
The slight of change in word with the adding of until instead of unto is a Catholic sin. It makes the whole of what is being conveyed make no sense. Unto or To her death is correct.
Michal produced no fruit or offspring for Israel unto her death. And actually because she had contempt for David, she would not . So not even after her death would she . And this account has nothing to do with the meaning of until concerning this:
Matthew 1:24-25
24Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: 25And knew her not till /until she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
UNTIL concerning Christ's reign we know there is no END to His reign , but must reign over the church IN heaven until, He has accomplished putting all His enemies under His feet. Then He will return and burn them in the lake of fire. So the( until ) is in reference to until His return. Until then He reigns in heaven and only in an Elect people This is proven with this:
Rev.11:14-16
The Seventh Trumpet
14The second woe has passed. Behold, the third woe is coming shortly. 15Then the seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and loud voices called out in heaven: “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He will reign forever and ever.” 16And the twenty-four elders who sit on their thrones before God fell on their faces and worshiped God,…

At the seventh trumpet is when the kingdom of the world becomes the kingdom of the Lord and His Christ. So (until )-then He shall reign from heaven over His people on earth from within them, UNTIL HIS ACTUAL RETURN. Put away the Catholic notes, they are predictable, over played and are proven weak . just deal with the fact the Catholic assembly too has mistakes.

Another factor - God had chosen to end Saul's dynasty, and for David to be Jesus' human ancestor, so He didn't want any of Saul's family mixed with David's. so, He caused David to not have any "relations" with her, while she remained one of his wives & so didn't dare take on another man.. And we see Saul's children & grandchildren all perished but Mephibosheth. Five of his sons being raised by Michal were killed as recompense for Saul's murders of some Gibeonites.

Jonathan, a good man, fell honorably in battle when Saul did. david later honored his son Mephibosheth & grandson Micha. Micha's posterity became leading men in Benjamin til the Babylonian conquest, & then were lost to history.

The name "Mephibosheth" means "the end of shame", so he ended the shame of Saul & his family. By all accounts he was a good man, & God had chosen to preserve Jonathan's line because of his righteousness & friendship with David.

 

[37818]

The decision to believe a doctrine is based on faith either in the scriptures, the church writings, writings of the pope,etc.
Catholic teaching is that Mary was taken up bodily into heaven at her death. Nowhere is this to be found in scripture.

Belief in anything is a matter of faith. Whether personal experiance, logic of some sort, or the witness of others.

 

[37818]

Those who have faith in God and his word need no other evidence or proof.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Faith itself does not make anything true. It is irrational not to believe in God [Who is the uncaused existence].

 

[HankD]

Faith itself does not make anything true. It is irrational not to believe in God [Who is the uncaused existence].

yet the majority don't.

 

[utilyan]

So far it would seem, a lot of hay, wood and straw is being preached in here by many.That will not get you snatched out of the flames.

Psalm 141:4-6
Come Quickly to Me
…4Do not let my heart be drawn to any evil thing or take part in works of wickedness with men who do iniquity; let me not feast on their delicacies. 5Let the righteous man strike me; let his rebuke be an act of loving devotion. It is oil for my head; let me not refuse it. For my prayer is ever against the deeds of the wicked. 6When their rulers are thrown from the cliffs, the people will listen to my words, for they are pleasant.…

Proverbs 9:9-10
9Instruct a wise man, and he will be wiser still; teach a righteous man, and he will increase his learning. 10The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.…

Reminds me of another cartoon.





Brother you have God on your side. All you got to do is show them by obvious Christ like example. There is no need to depend on passive terrorism.

Hanks a Saint, you bigger fish to fry if you think he's in trouble.

The guy who has God on their side. Relaxed and Calm. He ain't worried about jack. He took a glance at God and realized he has it all covered.

 

[Protestant]

Part 32: The abomination of desolation in the professing ‘Christian’ Church of Rome.

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate (Daniel 9:27 KJV).

And one week shall establish the covenant with many: and in the midst of the week my sacrifice and drink-offering shall be taken away: and on the temple shall be the abomination of desolations; and at the end of time an end shall be put to the desolation (Daniel 9:27, Brenton Septuagint Translation).

This prophecy is not without controversy, causing division within the ranks of professing Christendom.

Let the unbiased reader answer the following questions:

Who is it that makes an eternal covenant stating, This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins?

And who is it that neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us......thereby ending the animal sacrifices which had no power to take away sins?

And who is it that was ‘cut off’ after 3 ½ years of ministry; or in prophetic terms, mid-week; the week consisting of 7 years?

And who is that introduced an abominable bloodless sacrifice into the New Testament living Temple of God, the Holy Place, the Church, denying the once-for-all, eternal, perfect sacrifice accepted by the Father?

The answer to the first three questions is Christ.

The answer to the last question is Antichrist.

NEXT: The Image of the Beast.

 

[Walter]

Put away the Catholic notes, they are predictable, over played and are proven weak . just deal with the fact the Catholic assembly too has mistakes.

The perpetual virginity of Mary was not and is not an important teaching to me. My Catholic faith does not waver one way or the other. What does concern me is what I have observed over the years on the board concerning the Blessed Mother. To those who do not hold any admiration for her role as Theotokos, consider the following:

Jesus still has a glorified human Body and an immortal human Soul--we will be able to see His nail-scarred Hands, the only man-made thing in Heaven. He sits at the Right Hand of God the Father. Jesus is fully Man as well as fully God, and He always will be. The Incarnation ("The Word became Flesh"--John 1:14) was permanent, except that His mortal Flesh has now become immortal Flesh.

Let that fact sink in for a moment....

That pertinent fact has certain interesting implications. One is that Mary is and always will be the Mother of Jesus. Our Lord is and always will be her Son. She is and always will be the Theokotos--the Mother of God (Luke 1:43). Those who think that God in Heaven will simply keep His Mother in the background, relegating her to an inferior status in His Eternal Kingdom, need to think again.

"HUMBLE yourself under God's Mighty Hand, and in DUE TIME you will be EXALTED" (1 Peter 5:5-6). This is Mary's testimony in the Magnificat (Luke 1:48-52). "The Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes!" (Psalm 118:23).

Being fully Human and fully Divine, Jesus loves His Mother with a perfect (agape) Love. He honors her perfectly in obedience to His own moral commandment: "HONOR your father and your mother" (Exodus 20:12). Those who claim there is no legitimate distinction between "honor" and "worship" need to reconsider this commandment. We honor, but we do not worship, our parents.

And, I will bow out at this point. Apparently my comments are tired and weak. Protestant (Rand Winburn) still refuses to respond to any poster on this thread other than giving a shout out to like minded Iconoclast. Why bother responding to his cut & paste?

 

[robycop3]

yet the majority don't.

I think virtually everyone in a predominantly-Christian nation believes God exists, but what almost everyone is guilty of at one time or another is FORGETTING ABOUT HIM OR IGNORING HIM.

 

[OfLivingWaters]

The perpetual virginity of Mary was not and is not an important teaching to me. My Catholic faith does not waver one way or the other. What does concern me is what I have observed over the years on the board concerning the Blessed Mother. To those who do not hold any admiration for her role as Theotokos, consider the following:

Jesus still has a glorified human Body and an immortal human Soul--we will be able to see His nail-scarred Hands, the only man-made thing in Heaven. He sits at the Right Hand of God the Father. Jesus is fully Man as well as fully God, and He always will be. The Incarnation ("The Word became Flesh"--John 1:14) was permanent, except that His mortal Flesh has now become immortal Flesh.

Let that fact sink in for a moment....

That pertinent fact has certain interesting implications. One is that Mary is and always will be the Mother of Jesus. Our Lord is and always will be her Son. She is and always will be the Theokotos--the Mother of God (Luke 1:43). Those who think that God in Heaven will simply keep His Mother in the background, relegating her to an inferior status in His Eternal Kingdom, need to think again.

"HUMBLE yourself under God's Mighty Hand, and in DUE TIME you will be EXALTED" (1 Peter 5:5-6). This is Mary's testimony in the Magnificat (Luke 1:48-52). "The Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes!" (Psalm 118:23).

Being fully Human and fully Divine, Jesus loves His Mother with a perfect (agape) Love. He honors her perfectly in obedience to His own moral commandment: "HONOR your father and your mother" (Exodus 20:12). Those who claim there is no legitimate distinction between "honor" and "worship" need to reconsider this commandment. We honor, but we do not worship, our parents.

And, I will bow out at this point. Apparently my comments are tired and weak. Protestant (Rand Winburn) still refuses to respond to any poster on this thread other than giving a shout out to like minded Iconoclast. Why bother responding to his cut & paste?

Well spoken ,and I said put away the old Catholic play book , not -stop speaking from your heart. It matters not to me either way (her perpetual virginity), it seems to matter to many throughout history. And is the only thing the protestants can even bring to the table to be relevant in conversation. I appreciate your candid words. I feel the same way . I have a calling, and my doctrine must be perfect, according to that call. As I have said , the little ones do not care either way, in other post. They love her as Christ loves her and that according to the command of God as you so eloquently put it. "You are not far from the kingdom of heaven", Walter.

However, I, as I said ,must speak only pure virginal doctrine akin to the Symbol of the Church ,the Virgin Mary. Peace in Christ!

 

[OfLivingWaters]

Also Walter, the Israelites did not worship the Ark of the OC, but God. The ark was however, the OC sign that God was present. Just as Mother Mary is the sign of Immanuel in Isaiah.

Isaiah 7:13-15 The Sign of Immanuel
…13Then Isaiah said, “Hear now, O house of David! Is it not enough to try the patience of men? Will you try the patience of my God as well? 14Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and she will call Him Immanuel. 15By the time He knows enough to reject evil and choose good, He will be eating curds and honey.…

The ark was what it was, not because of the work put into it by human hands but that God used it as a symbol of the presents of Him with His people. As Long as they obeyed the laws within the Ark, God would stay with them. The Ark of the New and Better Covenant is not by human hands but , though taken from the same clump of clay she isexalted by the Power of the Most High Himself. The Confessing of the Incarnation is what 1John 4 is about. No matter what, or how anyone want's to spin that ,she is included in it, because it is her flesh that Christ chose to sanctify unto Himself and then take from. No earthly father seed, but a Holy seed (Immaculate Conception) was place in her Holy womb=egg, from her flesh He chose to be woven.

If men are ashamed of that, then they are ashamed of the WHOLE gospel of Christ. It is upon THE INCARNATION that all the faith is built. I challenge anyone to Prove that wrong. If men refuse the Confessing of the Incarnation , then it is because the spirit of God is not in them. Elisabeth was not ashamed, for it is when filled with the Holy Spirit that she said it.

Luke 1:40-42
Mary Visits Elizabeth
…40where she entered the home of Zechariah and greeted Elizabeth. 41When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42In a loud voice she exclaimed, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!…

No matter what scathing post any "Protestant " wants to post as long as men can Confess this, he is not lost.42(In a loud voice she exclaimed), “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb , JESUS! The angel Gabriel said the Confessing. So not sure what people are thinking when they are being disrespectful to those who do this Confessing everyday in the Rosary???

 

[OfLivingWaters]

As for all the rest of the noise posted in response to what I said, it is all just noise, no substance. I do not curse men, men curse themselves. I did not coin Deuteronomy, nor did I design the blessing or the curse. To post those verses is God's Word, not mine, I simply uphold the Covenant and am part of the Covenant of God, not part of the curse.