A Few Controversial Scriptures Examined

[HankD]

It would seem, your forgiveness is not in God , because I have said nothing that I need forgiveness from you for. It would seem you people need forgiveness for denying essential truths and rejecting all Orthodoxy and all Catholics as heretics and/or as part of cults. It would seem , you are appearing to not hold enough truth to stand in the midst of the trial that is coming! You can not even deal with the prelude. Main event , will kill you for sure!

I will say no more but have fulfilled what is required in warning you of things to come when one human being acts as a judge of another and I quote "Your problem is , your TICKED". I am not "ticked" - you are wrong. Simply stating scripture.

Matthew 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

 

[OfLivingWaters]

• 2 Samuel 6:23: And Michal the daughter of Saul had no child to (until) the day of her death. (Does this mean she had children after she died?)

• 1 Timothy 4:13: Until I come, attend to the public reading of scripture, to preaching, to teaching. (Does this mean Timothy should stop teaching after Paul comes?)

• 1 Corinthians 15:25: For he (Christ) must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. (Does this mean Christ’s reign will end? By no means! Luke 1:33 says, “he will reign over the house of Jacob foreverand of his kingdom there shall be no end.”)

It is (to or unto death). Michal had no children that is all that simply means. mary not being affected by the curse because of her Immaculate Conception (which happened at the annunciation and not before) purified her and the enmity between her and satan was there THE HOLY SPIRIT. She therefore would not be barren .
2 Samuel 6:20-23
20 Then David returned to bless his household. And Michal the daughter of Saul came out to meet David, and said, How glorious was the king of Israel to day, who uncovered himself to day in the eyes of the handmaids of his servants, as one of the vain fellows shamelessly uncovereth himself!

21 And David said unto Michal, It was before the Lord, which chose me before thy father, and before all his house, to appoint me ruler over the people of the Lord, over Israel: therefore will I play before the Lord.

22 And I will yet be more vile than thus, and will be base in mine own sight: and of the maidservants which thou hast spoken of, of them shall I be had in honour.

23 Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death.
The slight of change in word with the adding of until instead of unto is a Catholic sin. It makes the whole of what is being conveyed make no sense. Unto or To her death is correct.
Michal produced no fruit or offspring for Israel unto her death. And actually because she had contempt for David, she would not . So not even after her death would she . And this account has nothing to do with the meaning of until concerning this:
Matthew 1:24-25
24Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: 25And knew her not till /until she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
UNTIL concerning Christ's reign we know there is no END to His reign , but must reign over the church IN heaven until, He has accomplished putting all His enemies under His feet. Then He will return and burn them in the lake of fire. So the( until ) is in reference to until His return. Until then He reigns in heaven and only in an Elect people This is proven with this:
Rev.11:14-16
The Seventh Trumpet
14The second woe has passed. Behold, the third woe is coming shortly. 15Then the seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and loud voices called out in heaven: “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He will reign forever and ever.” 16And the twenty-four elders who sit on their thrones before God fell on their faces and worshiped God,…

At the seventh trumpet is when the kingdom of the world becomes the kingdom of the Lord and His Christ. So (until )-then He shall reign from heaven over His people on earth from within them, UNTIL HIS ACTUAL RETURN. Put away the Catholic notes, they are predictable, over played and are proven weak . just deal with the fact the Catholic assembly too has mistakes.

 

[OfLivingWaters]

I will say no more but have fulfilled what is required in warning you of things to come when one human being acts as a judge of another and I quote "Your problem is , your TICKED". I am not "ticked" - you are wrong. Simply stating scripture.

Matthew 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Matthew 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. Isn't that the truth!
As for all the rest you did not prove me wrong you simply try to give condemnation without authority. My words were justified because the y are Christ's who justifies me. As to what you believe, C'est la vie!

 

[OfLivingWaters]

@OfLivingWaters,

FYI, I accept the 66 book Bible as the handed down and translated, the texts being from the inerrant God, havig been given to mankind from His prophets and Apostles, by reason that I now know God through His Son and the gospel of grace (saved by God's grace alone, though faith alone in Christ alone) by which I know with certainty of now having eternal life, and of going to Heaven to be with the Lord Jesus Christ when I should die.

Enjoy that. Christ still has approved what you reject even in your 66 Book Canon regardless. And of course your 66 Book Canon is from God, it is scripture. But I will add so are the 73 and 81, that too are upheld by Christ's word in your 66 Books. Enoch and Jasher upheld in your Canon ,Carry on!

 

[HankD]

Matthew 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. Isn't that the truth!
As for all the rest you did not prove me wrong you simply try to give condemnation without authority. My words were justified because the y are Christ's who justifies me. As to what you believe, C'est la vie!

Agreed.

 

[37818]

Enjoy that. Christ still has approved what you reject even in your 66 Book Canon regardless. And of course your 66 Book Canon is from God, it is scripture. But I will add so are the 73 and 81, that too are upheld by Christ's word in your 66 Books. Enoch and Jasher upheld in your Canon ,Carry on!

Ok. It is not just my Canon. You seem to accept those 66 books too. There are many Christian sects, virtually all of them accept at the very least those 66 books. Now you cite there are to be 73 and an 81. Which is it? 73 or 81? Remember when Jesus was tempted of the Devil, Jesus cited Deuteronomy 8:3, quoting from Matthew 4:4, "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." Not just some of God's words, but all of them. Now as I claimed, just from those 66 book that I know are God's inerrant word, I know God and that I am certain of Heaven upon my death. How much more certain are you? There are things spoke by God, which we may be ignorant of. We still must live by those words too. Acts of the Apostles 2:4, things said not written down. Also John 21:25 acts of which would include other things Jesus taught.

 

[OfLivingWaters]

Ok. It is not just my Canon. You seem to accept those 66 books too. There are many Christian sects, virtually all of them accept at the very least those 66 books. Now you cite there are to be 73 and an 81. Which is it? 73 or 81? Remember when Jesus was tempted of the Devil, Jesus cited Deuteronomy 8:3, quoting from Matthew 4:4, "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." Not just some of God's words, but all of them. Now as I claimed, just from those 66 book that I know are God's inerrant word, I know God and that I am certain of Heaven upon my death. How much more certain are you? There are things spoke by God, which we may be ignorant of. We still must live by those words too. Acts of the Apostles 2:4, things said not written down. Also John 21:25 acts of which would include other things Jesus taught.

I am confident in Christ . And I know that even your 66 Book Canon , even when truths are pointed out using that, you still reject its support by, even what you hold. Your Canon is not in question , as far as what it can support. I question no scripture. I question only men and their lack of understanding of them and then condemning other denominations as complete cults. The point is, though Christ supports....... say, the Maccabees (proof is in the fact of the Feast of the DEDICATION , that He attended in scripture),though you have that point in your Canon , you reject the Maccabees because you do not believe in prayer for the dead. Now, any person with commonsense knows that those prayers are prayers of hope that God be merciful on a departed soul. You also do not believe in Purgatory. The concept of Purgatory, was adopted from a Jewish understanding , fostered by Enoch, THAT ALL SOULS PASS THROUGH THE HOLY FIRE OF GOD. The Catholic and orthodox assemblies believe in a Purging by fire. It is first a JEWISH concept taught by the prophet Enoch called (A Passing Through the Holy Fire) not the fire of Moloch , but the Fire of the Holy Spirit, that all pass through. Depending upon your QUALITY, will determine the effect the Holy Fire has upon the soul. All silver , gold and precious gem , wood hay and straw are touched by it. All go to heaven , that is (silver gold and precious gems), but depending on the dross concerning silver or gold, will determine the duration of travel to heaven.

Some silver or gold status souls may have dross when they die= unintentional sin (Venial sin). They are baptized souls in Christ but may have clung to some falsehoods in their lives. They did not die in mortal sin (willful sin). Then there are precious gems, they are of the highest positions in heaven and pass through the fire like passing through warm milk, no dross. Then there is wood, hay and straw , they are simply consumed and burnt up. Nothing to save and are cast outside the kingdom of heaven, to hell.

That is supported by saint Paul, in the Canon you have , but you do not fully understand what he says because you do not have those books which first introduce the faithful to what Purgatory is, Or what( Passing through the Holy Fire ,is) Therefore you condemn, those who believe in the Passing Through the Holy fire.

1 Corinthians 3
Christ Our Foundation
10By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one must be careful how he builds. 11For no one can lay a foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, 13his workmanship will be evident, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will prove the quality of each man’s work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive a reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss. He himself will be saved, but only as if through the flames.

The Day in this case is the Day you die, not the Final Judgment . For it is clear we are put where we belong according to our life's works. Paul is using tangible things to explain the effect of the holy Fire that all faithful Jews knew about. He is reiterating this concept in Christianity. 14(If what he has built survives, he will receive a reward). 15(If it is burned up, he will suffer loss. He himself will be saved, but only as if through the flames). (OBVIOUSLY ONLY SILVER GOLD AND PRECIOUS GEMS can survive because who preserves burned up wood , hay and straw?) The Holy Spirit proves each man's work after he dies . Some souls achieve perfection on earth, and are precious gems. some people become pure gold on earth or pure silver before they die. That is a ranking system, which is according to call. Obviously some have higher quality rankings then others.

I have to laugh honestly when I hear Protestants say we do not pray for the dead. Obviously Christians do not pray for DEAD SOULS, souls who go to hell.

You condemn Catholics for believing in this Fire and the Orthodox , all while , you have no problem with memorial services for military men and women......GO FIGURE.

 

[OfLivingWaters]

So far it would seem, a lot of hay, wood and straw is being preached in here by many.That will not get you snatched out of the flames.

Psalm 141:4-6
Come Quickly to Me
…4Do not let my heart be drawn to any evil thing or take part in works of wickedness with men who do iniquity; let me not feast on their delicacies. 5Let the righteous man strike me; let his rebuke be an act of loving devotion. It is oil for my head; let me not refuse it. For my prayer is ever against the deeds of the wicked. 6When their rulers are thrown from the cliffs, the people will listen to my words, for they are pleasant.…

Proverbs 9:9-10
9Instruct a wise man, and he will be wiser still; teach a righteous man, and he will increase his learning. 10The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.…

 

[37818]

I am confident in Christ .

Good. Do you then know for sure?

. I question no scripture. I question only men and their lack of understanding . . .

Same here. ". . . Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. . . ." -- Romans 8:34.

14(If what he has built survives, he will receive a reward). 15(If it is burned up, he will suffer loss. He himself will be saved, but only as if through the flames)

-- 1 Corinthians 3:11-15. What is built is what that is tried by fire. If what is built on one's foundation, that is Christ, v.11, is burned up, it will be a loss, but the foundation being Christ, will be saved. It is just what it says.

Either one has eternal life or one does not. 1 John 5:12; Romans 8:9; 2 Corinthians 13:5. I am not your judge. Christ is or He is your Savior. If your Savior, you better be sure. 1 John 5:9-13. I am sure for myself. Are you sure for yourself?

 

[OfLivingWaters]

Good. Do you then know for sure?

Same here. ". . . Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. . . ." -- Romans 8:34.


-- 1 Corinthians 3:11-15. What is built is what that is tried by fire. If what is built on one's foundation, that is Christ, v.11, is burned up, it will be a loss, but the foundation being Christ, will be saved. It is just what it says.

Either one has eternal life or one does not. 1 John 5:12; Romans 8:9; 2 Corinthians 13:5. I am not your judge. Christ is or He is your Savior. If so you better be sure. 1 John 5:9-13. I am for my self. You?

YUP! Ones end is either HEAVEN or HELL. , Eternal death- Hell ,or eternal life -HEAVEN. Both are the end that waits for all, The Holy Fire will determine your casting into hell or entering into the joy of your Father. If you think I said passing through the Holy Fire is an eternal process then you need to learn comprehension in reading. Paul is clear the DAY will reveal ones work. The FIRE WILL TEST EACH MAN'S WORKS I agree with all the scriptures you posted .

 

[37818]

YUP! Ones end is either HEAVEN or HELL. , Eternal death- Hell ,or eternal life -HEAVEN. Both are the end that waits for all, The Holy Fire will determine your casting into hell or entering into the joy of your Father. If you think I said passing through the Holy Fire is an eternal process then you need to learn comprehension in reading. Paul is clear the DAY will reveal ones work. The FIRE WILL TEST EACH MAN'S WORKS I agree with all the scriptures you posted .

The ones who perish, their names will be missing from the book of life, Revelation 20:15. Revelation 3:5; 1 John 5:4-5.

Those who perish trust their works, Matthew 7:22.

 

[OfLivingWaters]

Good. Do you then know for sure?

Same here. ". . . Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. . . ." -- Romans 8:34.


-- 1 Corinthians 3:11-15. What is built is what that is tried by fire. If what is built on one's foundation, that is Christ, v.11, is burned up, it will be a loss, but the foundation being Christ, will be saved. It is just what it says.

Either one has eternal life or one does not. 1 John 5:12; Romans 8:9; 2 Corinthians 13:5. I am not your judge. Christ is or He is your Savior. If your Savior, you better be sure. 1 John 5:9-13. I am sure for myself. You for yourself?

The foundation is Christ the WORD OF GOD from whom all creation is built. He spoke all things into existence . Clearly Paul is talking about what is built upon Christ the foundation. Obviously,he is not talking about the foundation as possibly being lost or being burned, but rather that foundation will test all things. What we build concerning Christ, will be tested and proved by the holy Fire. All things are compared to the TRUTH Christ. We must be careful what we build. I never said anything about the foundation.
He also laid the foundations of the earth. Even the earth will disclose the blood of men.
Psalm 102:25
The Prayer of the Afflicted
25In the beginning You laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands.

Clearly any hay wood or straw will not survive at all. A lot of men try to past off to other men hay , wood and straw as being a good thing built upon the foundation . NOPE! It does not cut the mustard. We must be grateful to God when by His Mercy He extends a chance in life for men to KNOW THE HOLY TRUTH, and not just what men think is truth. You nor I laid the foundation , Paul and the other Jewish apostles did . Be careful how you build, we all must. I strive to be a precious gem because that is what Christ laid hold of me for.
revelation 21:13
The New Jerusalem
…13There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south, and three on the west. 14The wall of the city had twelve foundations bearing the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. 15The angel who spoke with me had a golden measuring rod to measure the city and its gates and its walls.…
I uphold what Paul taught.
God Bless!

 

[OfLivingWaters]

The ones who perish, their names will be missing from the book of life, Revelation 20:15. Revelation 3:5; 1 John 5:4-5.

Those who perish trust their works, Matthew 7:22.

Deflection , I am not questioning any of this. I get it all. But thank you, it is always a pleasure to read the Word. I never tire of that. Feel free to post all you want. If you are seeking dialogue concerning all you are posting then perhaps you should engage and say that. If there is something you want to teach me concerning the scriptures you post, please by all means you have my undivided attention. God Bless!

 

[37818]

Deflection , I am not questioning any of this. I get it all. But thank you, it is always a pleasure to read the Word. I never tire of that. Feel free to post all you want. If you are seeking dialogue concerning all you are posting then perhaps you should engage and say that. If there is something you want to teach me concerning the scriptures you post, please by all means you have my undivided attention. God Bless!

Please, let us try this question:
Do you or do you not believe anyone can now have eternal life? Romans 6:23.

 

[OfLivingWaters]

Romans 6:22-23
The Wages of Sin
…22But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the fruit you reap leads to holiness, and the outcome is eternal life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Verse 22 answers 23, I believe all the scriptures. Do you? If the answer is yes, then why do you condemn all the other denominations Orthodox and Catholic? Are you being set free now? And are you truly ready to be a slave to God as I am?

 

[OfLivingWaters]

I have come in here with Sola scriptura , I have shown NO partiality. I have with scripture supported truths of Catholicism , and orthodoxy, and have also pointed out their flaws. I have not called anyone of you a cultist as I have been called. I have brought historical facts which reveals you as no different in history than the Harlot hierarchy of the RCC, with your own sorted history. I accept any truth you bring to the table. You all however, are not honest, you deny your own sins, you condemn those not of you as cultist, yet, I clearly have supported with scripture the truth they hold. Which seems to anyone who is truly seeking truth that you hold less.Just saying. I am not completely loyal to any one denomination because I am to be presented to ONE Lord as a pure virgin. I follow the Lamb wherever He goes.I will defend the truth at all times regardless of denomination. Men need to be loyal to truth alone. Simply apply all truth and be simply a CHRISTIAN just as the first to know.

 

[37818]

Romans 6:22-23
The Wages of Sin
…22But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the fruit you reap leads to holiness, and the outcome is eternal life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Verse 22 answers 23, I believe all the scriptures. Do you? If the answer is yes, then why do you condemn all the other denominations Orthodox and Catholic? Are you being set free now? And are you truly ready to be a slave to God as I am?

The denial of the simplicity in Christ. What is simple is made complicated. People are kept lost.

I believe all the scriptures. Do you?

Yes. And I believe you think you do too.

Now you did not answer my question.

Do you or do you not believe anyone can now have eternal life?

 

[OfLivingWaters]

The denial of the simplicity in Christ. What is simple is made complicated. People are kept lost.

Yes. And I believe you think you do too.

Now you did not answer my question.

You have not addressed anything I said . You have not disproved what I said. You can not, you will not, because it is Christ who justifies me. The scriptures are upheld by ME.You are the complication no one else . I not only believe what I say is true, I know what I say is ABSOLUTELY TRUE! That is the problem , NOT ONE PERSON can dispute it, because then they would be at war with Christ, who strengthens me. That is why you post these deflections which have nothing to do with what I post. First address what I posted and prove that wrong (YOU WON"T) but knock yourself out. And NEWS FLASH, I complicated nothing God is complicated , this has nothing to do with a simple faith in Christ but all of you condemning everyone , for their simple faith in Christ, plus their understanding of the God head. If you want to claim "simple faith" then shut your mouths with all you condemnations toward the TWO and start acting in simple love. If your gift is milk , stop trying to debate meat. If your doctrine is simple water , stop trying to debate the POTENT WINE. You go beyond your reach of expertise. Stick with being a surface skimmer and let those who go deep do as according to design. God does not have surface only but also depth. You are all ONE HUNDRED PERCENT WRONG in most of what you say, concerning others. Now prove my doctrines wrong........

 

[HankD]

Now prove my doctrines wrong........

Please pardon my intrusion OLW but a faith doctrine cannot be proven, i.e. one which you believe because it makes spiritual sense to you such as the dogma and doctrines concerning the Blessed Virgin Mary e.g. The Bodily Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary which has no scriptural evidence apart from the ex cathedra Tradition of the Church Magisterium for those who accept such as having the weight of Holy Scripture.

You accept it and believe it by faith which cannot be proven but only a witness given by your faith testimony.
Folks cannot prove you are wrong but can accept or reject your testimony as to true or not.

Neither is it helpful when you have your tantrums blasting us shouting insults at us because we can't or won't prove your teachings wrong.

Whatever your cause is, these behaviors are very counterproductive.

 

[37818]

You have not addressed anything I said . You have not disproved what I said.

You actually argued a lot of things. Can we deal with one point at a time? Or do you prefer arguing in circles. The points of disagreement are multiple.

1 Corinthians 3:10-15. For example, you think what is burned is the person. As I read it, only what is built is burned, not the person. And as I read it, said person is saved in either case. We do not agree on the meaning of that text.