A Few Controversial Scriptures Examined

[OfLivingWaters]

I test all APOCRYPHA to the base scriptures and then I find out if it is actually Apocrypha or Truth. Some apocrypha has been deemed a lie by certain Orthodox ,Catholics and Protestants. Yet Catholics have used the very books they call apocrypha to form doctrines??? If that apocrypha contradicts the gospels then it is rubbish, if not ,and upholds Christ's teachings then it is Canon.

As I said , I show no bias or partiality. I am a FREE THINKER for real. And I know my God points me to what most men are closed off from knowing. POINT: Not all called apocrypha is. One must be for study and not just sit in a highchair like babies and be spoon fed whatever other men, deem acceptable. We have base scriptures in which to test all, and some called apocrypha are revealed to be approved.

 

[37818]

I test all APOCRYPHA to the base scriptures and then I find out if it is actually Apocrypha or Truth. Some apocrypha has been deemed a lie by certain Orthodox ,Catholics and Protestants. Yet Catholics have used the very books they call apocrypha to form doctrines??? If that apocrypha contradicts the gospels then it is rubbish, if not ,and upholds Christ's teachings then it is Canon.

As I said , I show no bias or partiality. I am a FREE THINKER for real. And I know my God points me to what most men are closed off from knowing. POINT: Not all called apocrypha is. One must be for study and not just sit in a highchair like babies and be spoon fed whatever other men, deem acceptable. We have base scriptures in which to test all, and some called apocrypha are revealed to be approved.

Actually most of what you think you know comes from others. While you have your personal experience. And you can deduce truth from other truth which you have accepted based evidence from your personal experience and or the witness of others. This issue is true of all of us.

 

[HankD]

Actually most of what you think you know comes from others. While you have your personal experience. And you can deduce truth from other truth which you have accepted based evidence from your personal experience and or the witness of others. This issue is true of all of us.

YES!
And I have no problem with the many spokespersons of God here at the BB when they say something to the effect "God revealed it to me" as long as they allow me that same privilege.

 

[OfLivingWaters]

Actually most of what you think you know comes from others. While you have your personal experience. And you can deduce truth from other truth which you have accepted based evidence from your personal experience and or the witness of others. This issue is true of all of us.

No Kidding! It would seem your bias and partiality has caused you to confront the wrong person with that obvious truth. It would seem the opinion of your buddy contradicts your stance. It seems that what he deems as Canon , a 66 Book Canon is all there is that men can base there sums upon .For him that Canon is the only equation for truth . I clearly uphold that and the 73 with my 81, so your point?

Christ even proved his stance wrong concerning Maccabees because the feast of the Dedication that Christ attended , where He revealed Himself there as the Word of God, that is the commemoration of the events of Maccabees. Most protestants reject Maccabees. Obviously Christ did not. IT is approved by Christ , PERIOD!. Just as Jude approved Enoch's writings by quoting DIRECTLY from Enoch, and not from what you know as the OT either , which only gives mention of Enoch. Christ quotes some 40 + quotes from Enoch. The Rabbinical Jew rejects Enoch;s writings because they speak directly of the Ancient of ancients , the one seated at the right hand of God the Father. The book of Jasher upholds Enoch and he and many things he said are upheld :
Ancient Book Of Jasher: Referenced In Joshua 10:13; 2 Samuel 1:18 ...
And 2 Timothy 3:8. The Ethiopian Christians have the preserved works of his. So what men deem not approved has been approved within the very scriptures they approve of.

James 2:9
But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.

 

[HankD]

If one has the penchant to think in logical thoughts when coming to a conclusion then a worthy conclusion following that criteria would be that only those words from the Apocrypha actually used/quoted in the canon are scripture themselves.

 

[OfLivingWaters]

If one has the penchant to think in logical thoughts when coming to a conclusion then a worthy conclusion following that criteria would be that only those words from the Apocrypha actually used/quoted in the canon are scripture themselves.

Matthew 5:16-18
The Fulfillment of the Law
16In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven. 17Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. 18For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.…
As Christ said:until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.…
That means all and not one jot , not A STROKE OF A PEN will disappear. Enoch and Jasher's works will stand until heaven and earth pass away. God has preserved their works whether a certain of men like it or not because the WORD SAID SO, and I take Him at His word, do you?

 

[OfLivingWaters]

Solomon himself gave Sheba ALL the copies of the OC books and all the prophets were included. The books I mention were of study for certain of men in Jesus time . The Jewish Qumran community study from them and obviously when quoted from, does not mean because they were not included in what men collectively used. It is most accurate to say that certain of Jewish communities did not study from the books I mentioned and not because they were false, but because just as today men think they deem what God approves and disapproves of. God obviously approved Enoch and Jasher they are prophets who contributed more than just quotes . And not a single jot or stroke of their pen was lost, and will stand until the end of time. With that said, that is when ALL
prophecies will cease! At the end of time.

 

[HankD]

Matthew 5:16-18
The Fulfillment of the Law
16In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven. 17Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. 18For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.…
As Christ said:until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.…
That means all and not one jot , not A STROKE OF A PEN will disappear. Enoch and Jasher's works will stand until heaven and earth pass away. God has preserved their works whether a certain of men like it or not because the WORD SAID SO, and I take Him at His word, do you?

Having both formally/informally studied "religion" and writings claimed internally and externally to be "the 'word of God'" I agree so long as these writings claimed to be His word are indeed His word.

As I indicated previously - to me - just because certain clauses, words, phrases are extracted from apocryphal books does not IMO put God's stamp of approval on the rest of the writing of a book if we indeed even have a complete copy.

Of course this is also influenced by one's decision as to the collection of books constituting the canon of scripture.

 

[OfLivingWaters]

Having both formally/informally studied "religion" and writings claimed internally and externally to be "the 'word of God'" I agree so long as these writings claimed to be His word are indeed His word.

As I indicated previously - to me - just because certain clauses, words, phrases are extracted from apocryphal books does not IMO put God's stamp of approval on the rest of the writing of a book if we indeed even have a complete copy.

Of course this is also influenced by one's decision as to the collection of books constituting the canon of scripture.

I get what you are saying but Christ clearly said not one jot or stroke of the pen will be lost. I know there are a bunch of phony copies floating around out there. I am not talking about them. Not only did Sheba receive books, the Ethiopian Jews received the Christian approved writings . A certain Eunuch in the court of Candice brought them back, and many grew to their fullness and received Christ. So my point is, they have a complete bible. The Ethiopian Bible is the oldest and complete bible on earth : Ancient Origine. Written in Ge'ez an ancient dead language of Ethiopia it's nearly 800 years older than the King James Version and contains 81-88 books compared to 66.

They have that gift from God.
Christ said not one jot or stroke of a pen will be lost. What He says is BOND.
Isaiah 55:10-12
…10For just as rain and snow fall from heaven and do not return without watering the earth, making it bud and sprout, and providing seed to sow and food to eat, 11so My word that proceeds from My mouth will not return to Me empty, but it will accomplish what I please, and it will prosper where I send it. 12You will indeed go out with joy and be led forth in peace; the mountains and hills will burst into song before you, and all the trees of the field will clap their hands.…

WHERE HE SENDS IT. CASE CLOSED! Unless you want to call God a liar?

 

[HankD]

I get what you are saying but Christ clearly said not one jot or stroke of the pen will be lost....

WHERE HE SENDS IT. CASE CLOSED! Unless you want to call God a liar?

No but neither would i want (even inadvertently) to ADD TO HIS WORD which also carries a severe penalty.

Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Deuteronomy 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

 

[OfLivingWaters]

I think the moral of the story is:
Living Sacrifices Romans 12:1-21

1Therefore I urge you, brothers, on account of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. 2Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what is the good, pleasing, and perfect will of God.

3For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but think of yourself with sober judgment, (according to the measure of faith God has given you). 4Just as each of us has one body with many members, and not all members have the same function, 5so in Christ we who are many are one body, and each member belongs to one another.

6We have different gifts according to the grace given us. If one’s gift is prophecy, let him use it in proportion to his faith; 7if it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach; 8if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is giving, let him give generously; if it is leading, let him lead with diligence; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully.

Love, Zeal, Hope, Hospitality

9Love must be sincere. Detest what is evil; cling to what is good. 10Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Outdo yourselves in honoring one another.

11Do not let your zeal subside; keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord.

12Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, persistent in prayer.

13Share with the saints who are in need. Practice hospitality.

Forgiveness
(Matthew 18:21-35)

14Bless those who persecute you. Bless and do not curse. 15Rejoice with those who rejoice; weep with those who weep. 16Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but enjoy the company of the lowly. Do not be conceited.

17Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Carefully consider what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18If it is possible on your part, live at peace with everyone.

19Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but leave room for God’s wrath. For it is written: “Vengeance is Mine; I will repay, says the Lord.”

20On the contrary,

“If your enemy is hungry, feed him;

if he is thirsty, give him a drink.

For in so doing,

you will heap burning coals on his head.”

21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

God approves men of denominations. It would seem unless everyone has been late to class, that what you think is the Truth God is revealing what you're missing. Clearly everything I have spoken, My Heavenly Father is affirming . with each step with each of my post God is showing you that you all think way to highly of yourselves.

 

[OfLivingWaters]

No but neither would i want (even inadvertently) to ADD TO HIS WORD which also carries a severe penalty.

Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Deuteronomy 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

Seems as though God has hit a nerve with you. scripture against scripture, typical . As Christ said not one Jot not One stroke of the pen will be lost. I added nothing more than what was removed , not by me, but primarily by the Protestants, a little from the Catholics and some , from certain Orthodoxy. So those scriptures apply to you not me. Christ said it , not me. Your problem is , your TICKED , that a different group holds more truth than you. Even the Catholics hold more truth than your group. Humble pie is a difficult thing to eat, but MY GOD HAS SERVED IT UP. Be humble , repent and learn to love the whole body of Christ.

 

[robycop3]

A lot of things AINT scripture according to the shearing locust. Makes no difference to the fact that Jasher's account clearly rings true for today. A TRUTH that has transcended time and fits dead center with what Christ said would be the case for these days. Both Enoch and Jasher written thousands and thousands of years ago, and relevant today? I'll go with those prophets, acceptable or not to you or what any man deems as Canon. Considering you pretty much line up with this half backed thread of the "Protestant's" it is clear not only is grammar not your forte, nor is commonsense, or obvious truth.

It is in my Canon of choice . And since those two prophets spoke something waaaaaay before your hokey pokey crew and is proven true , simply based on the instant replay of jacked men of this world, I 'll take my chances and go with them.
Ethiopia and their gifts:
A Message to Cush
…6They will all be left to the mountain birds of prey, and to the beasts of the land. The birds will feed on them in summer, and all the wild animals in winter. 7At that time gifts will be brought to the LORD of Hosts— from a people tall and smooth-skinned, from a people widely feared, from a powerful nation of strange speech, whose land is divided by rivers— to Mount Zion, the place of the Name of the LORD of Hosts.

This has not happened yet. Verse 6 are the events immediately following the 6th seal which will leave many, many people dead and the birds will have to clean up their carcasses . But notice , the faithful of Ethiopia make it. WHY? because they too hold the Dogma of the faith and too venerate mother Mary. They shall bring gifts to Israel, to Mount Zion were Christ will dwell within and over His Elect . This is the Marriage Feast of the Lamb. It will be a spiritual renewal, in which the Elect gathered from the four wins will be part of. They will bring their gifts to the Holy Anointed of Zion who have the interior "Marker" of Christ with in, and have the Father's name written on their minds. Some , like myself already have study in what Ethiopia possesses .

I can easily prove the Book of Enoch was written long after Good took Enoch

The proof?

While I can't remember exactly where in that book it is, (Haven't read it in over 30 years) it mentions the year as being 365 1/4 days long , as it is now. However, "back in the day", it was only 360 days long, & each month was almost-exactly 30 days long. This is proven by records from all over the world. It's the year's length in Scripture.

This was changed in the 700s BC, in Hezekiah's time. A defining event was the retrograde movement of the earth for a few hours, which caused the shadow on the sundial of Ahaz to retreat 10 degrees. (2 Kings 20:11) The Roman nation was in its "childhood" then, & it scrambled for 15 years to make a correct calendar.That's when they had a year of only 10 months. The cosmic events that caused the earth's retrograde movement was repeated at the end of those 15 years, which set the order of the current calendar. But only 10 months were numbered then, with September, October, November, & December retaining their old Roman number designations.

And, in Enoch's time, the year was no longer than 360 days, maybe even less. (It mighta been changed by the cosmic cataclysm that brought on the events of the Exodus, C. 1500 BC)

 

[HankD]

Seems as though God has hit a nerve with you. scripture against scripture, typical . As Christ said not one Jot not One stroke of the pen will be lost. I added nothing more than what was removed , not by me, but primarily by the Protestants, a little from the Catholics and some , from certain Orthodoxy. So those scriptures apply to you not me. Christ said it , not me. Your problem is , your TICKED , that a different group holds more truth than you. Even the Catholics hold more truth than your group. Humble pie is a difficult thing to eat, but MY GOD HAS SERVED IT UP. Be humble , repent and learn to love the whole body of Christ.

And by your own philosophy you need to be careful that you yourself are not breaking the commandments in the pride of life and bearing false witness against others OLW. You will answer for it if you are. I for one however will forgive you.

Matthew 7
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

James 4:11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.

 

[OfLivingWaters]

I removed NOTHING from the Book of Revelation. Nor added anything to the scriptures, I simply know what Christ said is true.If you don't believe ,that is your choice and simply opinion . It changes not a single thing Christ said, unless you are saying that Enoch and Jasher are not prophets? That would simply disprove you when you said this:
Hank D said: Having both formally/informally studied "religion" and writings claimed internally and externally to be "the 'word of God'" I agree so long as these writings claimed to be His word are indeed His word.

Now as one who claims an informal and formal study , then you can not argue against ,that these two men are prophets right? And you can not call Christ a liar right?
Matthew 5:16-18
The Fulfillment of the Law
16In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven. 17Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. 18For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.…
As Christ said:until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.…
That means all and not one jot , not A STROKE OF A PEN will disappear. Enoch and Jasher's works will stand until heaven and earth pass away. God has preserved their works whether a certain of men like it or not because the WORD SAID SO, and I take Him at His word, do you?

So, based on what is clear, you can not say with confidence anything against their writings, in particular Jasher , which you seem to take issue with. Is Jasher a real biblical person? Did he write things? Obviously he did because he is quoted even in your Canon. Did Christ say not one jot or stroke of the pen will be lost? Of course! You simply do not believe Him. Therefore your battle is with Him. I in Him always win!

 

[OfLivingWaters]

And by your own philosophy you need to be careful that you yourself are not breaking the commandments in the pride of life and bearing false witness against others OLW. You will answer for it if you are. I for one however will forgive you.

Matthew 7
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

James 4:11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.

What evil was spoken? as for your forgiveness:
1Corinthians 2:14-16
Spiritual Wisdom
…14The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15The spiritual man judges all things, but he himself is not subject to anyone’s judgment. 16“For who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.…

 

[OfLivingWaters]

It would seem, your forgiveness is not in God , because I have said nothing that I need forgiveness from you for. It would seem you people need forgiveness for denying essential truths and rejecting all Orthodoxy and all Catholics as heretics and/or as part of cults. It would seem , you are appearing to not hold enough truth to stand in the midst of the trial that is coming! You can not even deal with the prelude. Main event , will kill you for sure!

 

[OfLivingWaters]

I can easily prove the Book of Enoch was written long after Good took Enoch

The proof?

While I can't remember exactly where in that book it is, (Haven't read it in over 30 years) it mentions the year as being 365 1/4 days long , as it is now. However, "back in the day", it was only 360 days long, & each month was almost-exactly 30 days long. This is proven by records from all over the world. It's the year's length in Scripture.

This was changed in the 700s BC, in Hezekiah's time. A defining event was the retrograde movement of the earth for a few hours, which caused the shadow on the sundial of Ahaz to retreat 10 degrees. (2 Kings 20:11) The Roman nation was in its "childhood" then, & it scrambled for 15 years to make a correct calendar.That's when they had a year of only 10 months. The cosmic events that caused the earth's retrograde movement was repeated at the end of those 15 years, which set the order of the current calendar. But only 10 months were numbered then, with September, October, November, & December retaining their old Roman number designations.

And, in Enoch's time, the year was no longer than 360 days, maybe even less. (It mighta been changed by the cosmic cataclysm that brought on the events of the Exodus, C. 1500 BC)

NOT ONE JOT ,NOT ONE STROKE OF THE PEN WILL BE LOST. Christ did not come to abolish but uphold the Law and the Prophets. The Qumran scrolls have a complete book of Enoch , a little worse for wear but the works of Enoch were found. AND ETHIOPIA HAS THE COMPLETE BOOK, you did not read that, unless you can speak Aramaic-Hebrew and Ge'ez?The Ethiopian Bible is the oldest and complete bible on earth : Ancient Origine. Written in Ge'ez an ancient dead language of Ethiopia it's nearly 800 years older than the King James Version and contains 81-88 books compared to 66.

Better pray for the gift of tongues. They were gifted with the works, you no noting about that, PERIOD. If you know nothing about them , then you are not qualified to commentate on them. And still , I have to be correct simply based on what Christ said.
Matthew 5:16-18
The Fulfillment of the Law
16In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven. 17Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. 18For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.…
That means all and not one jot , not A STROKE OF A PEN will disappear. Enoch and Jasher's works will stand until heaven and earth pass away. God has preserved their works whether a certain of men like it or not because the WORD SAID SO, and I take Him at His word, do you?
AND THIS:
Isaiah 55:10-12
…10For just as rain and snow fall from heaven and do not return without watering the earth, making it bud and sprout, and providing seed to sow and food to eat, 11so My word that proceeds from My mouth will not return to Me empty, but it will accomplish what I please, and it will prosper where I send it. 12You will indeed go out with joy and be led forth in peace; the
mountains and hills will burst into song before you, and all the trees of the field will clap their hands.…

So at BEST all you can say is you do not know for sure, what their scriptures say. But instead you resort to the worst, and condemn. And I owe an apology according to Hank. Self righteous indeed!

 

[37818]

@OfLivingWaters,

FYI, I accept the 66 book Bible as the handed down and translated, the texts being from the inerrant God, havig been given to mankind from His prophets and Apostles, by reason that I now know God through His Son and the gospel of grace (saved by God's grace alone, though faith alone in Christ alone) by which I know with certainty of now having eternal life, and of going to Heaven to be with the Lord Jesus Christ when I should die.

 

[Walter]

Over the years, I've seen many goofy excuses from RCs trying to justify having a pope, but THIS whopper's a CLASSIC ! This shows real desperation to come up with something THIS silly !

There's nothing anywhere saying Joseph had another wife. And James, etc. were called the BROTHERS of Jesus.




YOU weren't there, either, but we have SCRIPTURE. And Scripture says Joseph had no "relations" with Mary til after Jesus was born. It does NOT say he NEVER had "relations" with her!

And we know Calvin, Luther, etc. had several other incorrect beliefs as well.

• 2 Samuel 6:23: And Michal the daughter of Saul had no child to (until) the day of her death. (Does this mean she had children after she died?)

• 1 Timothy 4:13: Until I come, attend to the public reading of scripture, to preaching, to teaching. (Does this mean Timothy should stop teaching after Paul comes?)

• 1 Corinthians 15:25: For he (Christ) must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. (Does this mean Christ’s reign will end? By no means! Luke 1:33 says, “he will reign over the house of Jacob foreverand of his kingdom there shall be no end.”)