OldRegular
Well-Known Member
There is nothing in Scripture that indicates they did not return to the grave!
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A little "end time" confusion (Who is leaving?)
- Thread starter menageriekeeper
- Start date
There is nothing in Scripture that indicates they did not return to the grave!
plain_n_simple
Active Member
"There is nothing in Scripture that indicates they did not return to the grave!"
And there is nothing in scripture that says they did return to the grave.
And there is nothing in scripture that says they did return to the grave.
convicted1
Guest
Do you believe that these bodies went back to the grave?
convicted1
Guest
convicted1
Guest
Wrong.
Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:
21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
That great and notable day of the Lord was when He offered Himself upon the cross on our behalf. Then, those who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved after this occurance.
It absolutely is, OR, but the post was meant to deal with the issue of when the "first resurrection" takes place.
Rather than seeing first in the rigid interpretation of "first in sequence," it is, by all available knowledge concerning resurrection, best to see it as "first in rank," meaning "First deals with the quality of resurrection.
Even the wicked will be resurrected, as the same passage reveals.
This actually strengthens the point made: just as Christ is the "firstborn," even so the First Resurrection speaks of exactly what you say here:
God bless.
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The resurrection of Christ is the first resurrection in which "man" is raised from the dead in glorified bodies, the Lord being...the first.
See here for many references to The Day of the Lord.
While we the explicit statement of fulfillment in Acts, we can see that The Day of the Lord is still yet to be fulfilled in entirety, even as we see that this:
Luke 4
16And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
But not all had been fulfilled:
Isaiah 61
1The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
2To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
The book was closed, for though Christ fulfilled this prophecy by His own testimony, He did not say the day of vengeance had been fulfilled.
Nor should we look at Acts to mean that all prophecy has been fulfilled, for it has not.
The Day of the Lord is yet future. The day of vengeance is yet future.
God bless.
"20And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears."
Christ said that the Scripture, not just a portion, was fulfilled. Let's take Christ at His own words & not divide it to make it fit our personal systems of belief. The fulfillment of this passage may not fit your theological system, but it is fulfilled none the less.
For I the LORD love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them.(Isaiah 61:8)
I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels. (Isaiah 61:10)
This entire chapter is speaking of Christ bringing salvation to us. The reference to the new covenant is another key verse in understanding the context of this chapter. If you are a believer, then are you not currently covenanted with God, clothed in the spiritual garments of salvation, & clothed in the righteousness of Christ? This is another reason why I left dispensationalism. Any system that requires portions of Scripture be torn out of context & be used as "proofs" for said system is foundationally flawed & substantively hollow. I came to the place where I could not continue ignoring Christ's clearly spoken words in lieu of a man-made system. Christ's own words in grammatical, literary & historical-cultural contexts should never be discarded or ignored in order to preserve the fidelity of man-made traditions of doctrines.
21And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears."
Christ said that the Scripture, not just a portion, was fulfilled. Let's take Christ at His own words & not divide it to make it fit our personal systems of belief. The fulfillment of this passage may not fit your theological system, but it is fulfilled none the less.
For I the LORD love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them.(Isaiah 61:8)
I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels. (Isaiah 61:10)
This entire chapter is speaking of Christ bringing salvation to us. The reference to the new covenant is another key verse in understanding the context of this chapter. If you are a believer, then are you not currently covenanted with God, clothed in the spiritual garments of salvation, & clothed in the righteousness of Christ? This is another reason why I left dispensationalism. Any system that requires portions of Scripture be torn out of context & be used as "proofs" for said system is foundationally flawed & substantively hollow. I came to the place where I could not continue ignoring Christ's clearly spoken words in lieu of a man-made system. Christ's own words in grammatical, literary & historical-cultural contexts should never be discarded or ignored in order to preserve the fidelity of man-made traditions of doctrines.
In addition to Michael's comments I'd like to add my two cents.
Christ read from this very passage in Luke 4:16-21. He stopped, however, at the middle of verse two, leaving off the "day of vengeance of our God". Many have read into this omission an unwarranted gap in chronology, as if the two events (year of the Lord and day of vengeance) could be separated. But this is not borne out elsewhere in Scripture. In fact these two ideas are repeated in reverse order two chapters further on in Isaiah, 63:4
"For the day of vengeance is in My heart,
And the year of My redeemed has come."
The vengeance and redemption happen together. Although there is much comfort in Isaiah that was directed toward the prophet's contemporaries (for instance, the assurances he gave to Hezekiah when Jerusalem was besieged) and also toward the Israel of the Babylonian exile there are, as well, many references to the "last days" generation of Israel, those of the 1st century. That this passage is especially directed to that very time is proven by the fact that Christ quotes this section in the inauguration of His ministry, saying (Luke 4:21) “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”
This, coupled with Jesus' other teachings in the Gospels ("all these things shall come upon this generation", Matt. 23:36), points to the time around AD 70 as the only possible fulfillment of all these events.
beameup
Member
RE: Isa 61:1-2a
Absolutely! A Non-Spiritual Christian would completely miss that kind of subtlety in the text,
whereas a Spiritual Christian would be alerted by the Holy Spirit to the significance and specificity.
It is amazing to observe how Jesus responded to questions in the Gospels. Being "specific" is not the same as being deceitful.
Jesus was profound in the way he answered questions and quoted scripture. Note that throughout the N.T.
that the "habit" was to quote "sound bites" and NOT entire passages. The Holy Spirit plucks those little
gems out of passages of scripture. That is why it is so important to be spiritual as the Scripture is spiritual in nature
and the "Natural Man" or "Carnal Christian" is unaware of those subtleties put there by the Holy Spirit.
For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: - Is 28:10 :thumbsup:
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. - 1 Cor 2:13
Absolutely! A Non-Spiritual Christian would completely miss that kind of subtlety in the text,
whereas a Spiritual Christian would be alerted by the Holy Spirit to the significance and specificity.
It is amazing to observe how Jesus responded to questions in the Gospels. Being "specific" is not the same as being deceitful.
Jesus was profound in the way he answered questions and quoted scripture. Note that throughout the N.T.
that the "habit" was to quote "sound bites" and NOT entire passages. The Holy Spirit plucks those little
gems out of passages of scripture. That is why it is so important to be spiritual as the Scripture is spiritual in nature
and the "Natural Man" or "Carnal Christian" is unaware of those subtleties put there by the Holy Spirit.
For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: - Is 28:10 :thumbsup:
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. - 1 Cor 2:13
There are several things about this post which are just plain wrong, but for now I'll just zero on this one oft-misused passage in Isaiah 28. The "precept upon precept" idea was not meant in a good, but a mocking sense. These are the complaining words of the hardened Israelites against their would-be teachers. Their teaching is, to their dull, unreceptive ears, merely "the same old thing, over and over again". It is like our modern complaint of "I've heard it all before!"
Moreover, the words "must be" are in italics, being unhelpful insertions by the translators. The verse describes a condition then existing. It is not hortatory.
It is not a matter of subtlety or of spirituality, but the opposite.
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beameup
Member
So in your false diagram......satan is a carnal christian::laugh::laugh:
What in your false doctrine leads you to believe that Satan is a man?
The charts accurately reflect the spiritual architecture of man:
S= self/ego
the Cross = Christ
Christ is either on the outside (unsaved)
or on the inside (carnal or spiritual)
Christ is "on the throne" = spiritual Christian
Christ "off the throne" = carnal Christian
either the EGO/SELF is "on the throne"
or the HOLY SPIRIT/Christ is "on the throne".
Our God is a humble God, those who please Him are also humble.
Satan was NOT humble, Satan was "full of Pride" - EGO directed.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
You are correct there! However, that they were returned to the grave can be inferred from the following:
1 Corinthians 15:23
But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Yes I do! See the above post!
beameup
Member
I'm not surprised that you don't understand that this passage clearly shows that the Bible is "spiritually understood".
Those who are not spiritual (as in this case genetic Israelites) cannot understand the scriptures.
Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, [even] as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk
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Every cult & false church leader believes that they alone possess the spirituality necessary to divine supersecret meaning hidden behind the actual text of Scripture. Splicing & dicing the text to make it say what you want is not spiritual discernment; it is a self-serving attempt to preserve man-made doctrine.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Darrel C.
What did John see? He saw souls, not resurrected bodies!
Revelation 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
What did John see? He saw souls, not resurrected bodies!
Revelation 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
There is no such being as a carnal christian...except in your little circles...so satan is equal to your so called carnal christian......Christ is always on the throne my friend:thumbs:
convicted1
Guest
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: