A look at the NKJV.

[Scott J]

Originally posted by KING JAMES AV 1611:
Amen JYD and Steve M!! Stick with the true word of God the KJV. There is no other!

Steve!!! Where you been?

Congratulations!! In your single, concise post above you have doubled....no, no... tripled the weight of truthful, factual, evidence provided by JYD and Steve M.

 

[AV Defender]

The NKJV is very much like the KJV except in the places where the KJV needed to be corrected to a more accurate rendering of the TR.

If it dont read like a KJV then it aint KJV.

 

[neal4christ]

The NKJV has ASV,RSV and NASV readings in it

Good try, JYD, but not so fast. We were talking about the manuscripts that the NKJV was translated from. Not the wording of the translation. You are not proving the assertion that was made, that the NKJV does not use the same MANUSCRIPTS as the KJV. Yes, you show that the wording of the TRANSLATION is not the same, but that does not mean that the MANUSCRIPTS are different. If the NKJV was translated exactly the same was as the KJV, it would not be the NKJV! Also, if you look, you will probably find that the NKJV is being truer to the TR that both it and the KJV were translated from.

Good try changing the subject, but I would like to see proof that the MANUSCRIPTS used in the NKJV New Testament are different from the ones used for the KJV.

Neal

 

[neal4christ]

If it dont read like a KJV then it aint KJV.

That is true. That is why it is called the NKJV.

Neal

 

[HankD]

Amen JYD and Steve M!! Stick with the true word of God the KJV. There is no other!

Which KJV? 1611AD or the several versions till 1769AD (all different from one another)?
Why are "printer errors" allowed, nay, sanctioned by God but "scribal errors" are from the devil?
Which KJV edition is correct, Oxford or Cambridge? (both are different from each other).

With or without Apocryphal (as in the original 1611AD printing)?
With or without marginal notes correcting the text (as in the original 1611AD printing)?
With or without the Church of England Liturgical calendar(as in the 1611AD printing)?

There is no possible way that the 1611AD and the 1769AD KJB can both be the (so-called) "pure" Word of God with the several hundred differences between them because "Things different are not the same".


HankD

 

[AV Defender]

Which KJV edition is correct, Oxford or Cambridge?

Yes.

 

[neal4christ]

Yes

Good answer, JYD.

They can't both be. Remember, using your logic, things different are not the same. So which one is it? I have both, and I would like to know which one is THE Word of God.

Neal

 

[rsr]

Some honest questions:

Didn't the KJV translators depart from the TR on many occasions?

Did the translators leave behind the Greek text they considered authoritative? Or did Scrivener have to reconstruct the text? If he did, what does this say about the KJVO concept of preservation?

 

[HankD]

Some honest questions:

Didn't the KJV translators depart from the TR on many occasions?

Did the translators leave behind the Greek text they considered authoritative? Or did Scrivener have to reconstruct the text? If he did, what does this say about the KJVO concept of preservation?

Here are my answers from what I know/suspect

Yes, The KJV translators departed here and there from the TR. It seems that the stephanus 1550 is their TR of choice. Apparently they used their own judgement against the TR in some cases.

From what I have read, in 1894/5 Scrivener used the Stephanus and then modified it where the English of the KJV supported another reading.
This does nothing to the preservation doctrine of the most radical of the KJVO, as they hold to a kind of re-inspiration/preservation theory, that God re-inspired the Scripture through the KJV translators in 1611 using 17th century Elizabethan English giving us a "pure" Word of God in the English language that one can "hold in my hand".

Apart from this theory not being detailed in the Scripture Their biggest problem (imo), is that not all the KJVs are the same (1611AD through 1873, many revisions)
Oxford and Cambridge editions are different.
These revisions would require several armfuls of Bibles rather than one which could be held in one's hand. What if I had an original 1611AD Bible should I cut out the apocrypha before I "hold it" in my hands?

Another big problem, Even the 1873 revision is not in the "koine" or "common" language of the English speaking peoples as when God first gave His Word to/though the Apostles.

HankD

 

[HankD]

The NKJV has ASV,RSV and NASV readings in it; look at 2thessalonians 2:7,James 5:16,Matt 20:20, Also, look at, 2 Tim 2:7 is a ASV reading. 1 Thessalonians 5:22 is a ASV reading, Acts 4:27,30 is a ASV reading which attacks the deity of Christ. Acts 4:13 is the NASV reading, 2Tim 2:22 & 2:26 are NASV readings, John 14:2 is a RSV & NASV reading, 2Tim 4:6 is a NASV reading, Acts 17:29 is from the NASV,1st John 3:4,7 is also a NASV reading. So you see, the New King Jimmy Version is not like the AV it claims to be from.

OK JYD, (although you didn't respond). Having compared KJV 2 Thessalonians 2:7/NKJV/TR, I found the NKJV to be a better English translation (imo) than the KJV (No variants here so its not a text issue) Lets look at the next one : James 5:16

James 5:16

KJV James 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

NKJ James 5:16 Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.

ASV James 5:16 Confess therefore your sins one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The supplication of a righteous man availeth much in its working.

NAS James 5:16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.

RSV James 5:16 Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects.


JYD, the only thing I can ask after my own comparison of the KJV/NKJV/ASV/NASV/RSV of this passage of Scripture is - Did you actually do the comparisons yourself or did you just cut and paste this list from someone else without checking it out?

The similarity between the KJV and NKJV after English word modernization is exact but for one word:

"Faults - KJV" versus "trespasses - NKJV"

Here there is a Greek text variant the TR uses:
Scrivener 1894 NT (TR)
3900 paraptoma {par-ap'-to-mah}
• 1) to fall beside or near something 2) a lapse or deviation from truth and uprightness 2a) a sin, misdeed

Wescott and Hort NT 1881
[UBS] harmatia, s f sin ( be sinful); often sin offering

Since I am TRO, I would go with paraptoma.
Although the KJV translates this word "fault" here it translates the very same word as "trespass" in all 4 Gospels and several other places (only once that I could find as "sins").

"trespass" is clearly favored by the KJV for this word and not "sin" as the ASV/NASV/RSV.

So, again, did you actually do the comparison and if so, what is your objection to this wording of this passage in the NKJV? It cannot be that it is an ASV/NASV/RSV translation because they (ASV/NASV/RSV) indeed favor the "alexandrian" Wescott and Hort Greek NT with "harmatia - sins".

The NKJV clearly supports the TR word "trespasses - paraptoma" over "sins - harmatia".

HankD

[ February 17, 2003, 11:53 AM: Message edited by: HankD ]

 

[HankD]

Dear JYD, you also indicated that the NKJV Matthew 20:20 translation was ASV/NASV ...

Here the significant difference is in the KJV work for "proskenao" or "worship".

KJV Matthew 20:20 Then came to him the mother of Zebedee's children with her sons, worshipping him , and desiring a certain thing of him.

NKJ Matthew 20:20 Then the mother of Zebedee's sons came to Him with her sons, kneeling down and asking something from Him.

ASV Matthew 20:20 Then came to him the mother of the sons of Zebedee with her sons, worshipping him , and asking a certain thing of him.

NAS Matthew 20:20 Then the mother of the sons of Zebedee came to Him with her sons, bowing down, and making a request of Him.

RSV Matthew 20:20 Then the mother of the sons of Zebedee came up to him, with her sons, and kneeling before him she asked him for something.

In this case I will presume to disagree with the NKJV translators, they should have used "worship".

However I'm not throwing my NKJV out. No translation is perfect (imo).
Just like I don't throw out my KJV because it supports paedo-baptism and/or sprinkling.

HankD

 

[Steve K.]

Many people have asked about the mysterious symbol on the NKJV.

Thomas Nelson Publishers (publishers of the NKJV) claim, on the inside-cover, the symbol, ". . .is an ancient symbol for the Trinity." But Acts 17:29, clearly FORBIDS such symbology: ". . . we ought NOT to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, GRAVEN BY ART and man's device."

And why does The Aquarian Conspiracy, a key New Age "handbook", bear a similar symbol? New Agers freely admit it represents three inter-woven "6"s or "666".

Constance Cumbey, author of The Hidden Dangers of the Rainbow and a notable authority on the New Age Movement, said, "On the cover of the Aquarian Conspiracy is a Mobius, it is really used by them as triple six (666). The emblem on the cover of the New King James Bible is said to be an ancient symbol of the Trinity. The old symbol had gnostic origins. It was more gnostic than Christian. I was rather alarmed when I noticed the emblem..." (The New Age Movement, Southwest Radio Church, 1982 p.11)

 

[Steve K.]

Dr. Cathy Burns writes in her book, Masonic and Occult Symbols Illustrated, concerning the "NKJV symbol":

"Marilyn Ferguson, a New Ager, used the symbol of the triquetra (another name for the triskele) on her book The Aquarian Conspiracy. This is a variation for the number 666. Other books and material have a similar design printed on them, such as books from David Spangler, the person who lauds Lucifer, and The Witch's Grimoire. As most people know, the number 666 is the number of the beast (see Revelation 13:18) and is evil, yet the occultists and New Agers love this number and consider it to be sacred.
As stated earlier, many organizations, such as the World Future Society and the Trilateral Commission, incorporate this symbol into their logo. I think it is quite interesting to see that this same symbol appears on the cover of the New King James Bible as well!"(Dr. Cathy Burns, Masonic and Occult Symbols Illustrated, pp. 242-243)

 

[Steve K.]

Ain't God good!
Frankly, I do not believe that in choosing this symbol for its bible version the publisher of the NKJV bible had any idea of the true meaning of its esoteric significance. But because this bible version, like so many others, is permeated with errors and omissions, I believe it possible that God saw to it that there would be a signal for true Christians - one glaringly printed on this false bible - warning us to reject the NKJV. God is faithful. He always gives His people the light of truth so that darkness can be avoided and rejected.

I believe, then, we are witnessing the hand of God, cautioning us to have nothing to do with the corrupt, new bible versions. As we have repeatedly stated, the authorized King James Version (KJV) remains the one, true, untarnished Bible. It is accurate and without mixture of error. No wonder, then, that so many deceivers today seek to cast doubt on the powerful, eternal Word of God contained in the King James Bible.

My friends, the real war in these last days is not in the field of economics. Our major enemy is not political. The greatest battle is not over the conspirators' scheme for the New World Order. What we are engaged in now is the epic contest of the ages. This is a struggle for the spiritual heart of mankind. I thank God that he has provided us with all the ammunition and answers we need to fight in this Holy War and prevail. The mighty weapons we require are found in ample supply in His Book, the majestic and incomparable King James Bible.

 

[Steve K.]

Food for thought;
In order to "harmonize" with the satanic New Age Movement (and of course the NIV, NASV, RSV, NRSV!), the NKJV changes "end of the WORLD" to "end of the AGE"! And in it's no longer the "WORLD to come" but "AGE to come". The New Age Movement teaches a series of ages (hence the name: New AGE). See Matthew 12:32, 13:39, 13:40, 13:49, 24:3, 28:20, Mark 10:30, Luke 13:30, 20:34,35, 1 Cor 1:21.

The New Age Movement and the occult are longing for one called the Maitreya. The Bible calls him the Anti-Christ. New Ager's refer to him as the "the Coming One" - AND SO DOES THE NKJV! In Luke 7:19, 20 (see also Matt 11:3) John told his disciples to ask Jesus: "Are You THE COMING ONE. . ." In the "The Great Invocation", a "prayer" highly reverenced among New Agers and chanted to "invoke" the Maitreya, says, "Let Light and Love and Power and Death, Fulfil the purpose of the Coming One."

And to REALLY show their sympathy with the satanic New Age Movement - BELIEVE IT OR NOT - in Acts 17:29 the New Age NKJV changes "Godhead" to "Divine Nature"! ( ditto NIV, NASV)

 

[BrianT]

The NKJV's symbol is OBVIOUSLY an intertwining of the number 777:

 

[Steve K.]

Ah yes once again an Mv promoter displaying his arrogance and ignorance. Pity Brian you cannot refute truth so you play the clown.

 

[BrianT]

Only because it's *really hard* to take anything you say seriously.

 

[Steve K.]

Kind of like how you treat what God says huh Brian?

 

[HankD]

Thomas Nelson Publishers (publishers of the NKJV) claim, on the inside-cover, the symbol...

Nelson also publishes the KJV.

HankD