A Pastoral Letter to White Americans

[Bro. Curtis]

I showed this letter to Cynthia, my across the street neighbor. She's originally from gang-infested New Jersey, and is black, so she knows a thing or two about what blacks face in the city. She was laughing pretty hard. Of course, she isn't at my workplace, or church, so maybe she doesn't count ?

Blacks do all the talking, whitey does the listening ?

Baloney. Phooey. Garbage.

 

[Zaac]

I read the whole thing. Twice.

I listened.

I felt it was biased.

Why do I need to stop talking because I'm white?

That's not what he said.

Why must I stop saying that I am not a racist because I am white?

That's not what he said.

I see y'all hear quite well when you think you're being called prejudiced or racist. But you never want to listen to the why behind why people are saying that.

Because I am talking does not mean that I don't listen.

That's dumb. If you're talking you certainly aren't listening in a manner that says you care what the other person is saying.

Because I listen doesn't forbid me from talking.

Do you make it a point to talk when your boss is talking? Do you make it a point to talk when the pastor is talking on Sunday morning? I'll venture you sit back and listen so that you can clearly hear and try to understand what is being said.

Yes, everyone has a story. Everyone should be heard.

Hard to be heard when you're dead.

But those who speak must speak the truth - painful, hard to hear, or not - and it must be without sensation, bias, or with an intent to incite.

Do yall even realize how much white privilege colors what we say? If somebody wants to incite, they are within their rights to do so. When black people are seeing other unarmed black people shot and killed by the police again and again and hearing the stories again and again and seeing the police officers go uncharged again and again, they have every reason to incite. That seems to be the only thing white people seem to take notice of and not so much because of their reasons for doing it, but because then some white people get to say again there they go acting like animals and thugs again.

But you never hear white political conservatives talking about the incited riots that took place after Joe Paterno was fired. Nobody on the right mentions the incited riot of the Pumpkin Festival in New Hampshire this year. And gosh, let somebody's college football team lose, and all Hades breaks out.


When you've been marginalized, you do what you need to do to be heard. In many cases, the white privileged perspective isn't expected to understand that because those with that perspective haven't experienced that reality.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Do you make it a point to talk when your boss is talking?

Blacks are your boss, Scarlett. Shut up and listen. They're your pastor.

This just gets stupider and stupider.

 

[Zaac]

Zaac, you couldn't be more wrong. It's not "This isn't what I want to hear", it's "This guy is so biased that he won't listen to reason."

And you're saying the same thing that many Blacks are saying about Whites. But when they call out the bias of white privilege, white people get upset.

Whoever wrote that piece used wordings that were intentionally inflammatory, and painted a false picture. In fact, he outright ignored fact and lied.

Why would you expect anyone outraged at what has systematically been going on in the United States to not use inflammatory words? They're inflamed and outraged at a country who would dare speak to the acts of inhumanity around the world, to a church that would speak to the heinousness of abortion in this country, while being complicit in the systematic mistreatment and killing again and again of a segment of the population.

So yeah. I don't fault them for using inflammatory language .

What fact did he ignore and lie?

How are you supposed to reason with someone who isn't interested in a two-way discussion?

Exactly. You shut down and stopped reading the same way a lot of white people do when a black person mentions anything to do with race. You marginalized what he had to say and thus didn't read it the same way that a lot of white people marginalize what Blacks have to say and just write it off as them being racist themselves or responsible for not acting right around the police.

White privilege says that I must be the one to frame the conversation and it must be fostered in a way that I get to lead the discussion. But you weren't trying to have a discussion except for on your terms and within the parameters that you set.

That does nothing but perpetuate the same air of privilege that existed when black people were slaves and told when they could speak and how they could speak.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Many white Americans tend to see this problem as unfortunate incidents based on individual circumstances.

Black Americans see a system in which their black lives matter less than white lives.

Too much emotion going on and not enough sitting back and thinking about the statements in the quotes above.

The statements reflect the perceptions of whites and blacks. It does not matter which stance you take. Whatever it is that is your perception. It does not mean you are right or that you are wrong. It means that is what you think at the moment and that is your personal bias.

So, try to think about it from the other fellow's point of view and try to be constructive instead of screaming and point fingers.

 

[Zaac]

Blacks are your boss, Scarlett. Shut up and listen. They're your pastor.

This just gets stupider and stupider.

Naah. You're just trying to incite.

Noticeably your reading comprehension skills have seemingly gone from bad to worse.

 

[Zaac]

Too much emotion going on and not enough sitting back and thinking about the statements in the quotes above.

The statements reflect the perceptions of whites and blacks. It does not matter which stance you take. Whatever it is that is your perception. It does not mean you are right or that you are wrong. It means that is what you think at the moment and that is your personal bias.

So, try to think about it from the other fellow's point of view and try to be constructive instead of screaming and point fingers.

:applause: And this is perhaps why he said to stop talking and all the other stuff and just listen for one minute. Take the time and listen and entertain the fact that though I may not be able to relate, and although it may not be my truth because it's not a reality that I've experienced, how can I dismiss them and say that what they experience everyday is untruthful and nonfactual?

 

[Sapper Woody]

And you're saying the same thing that many Blacks are saying about Whites. But when they call out the bias of white privilege, white people get upset.

















Why would you expect anyone outraged at what has systematically been going on in the United States to not use inflammatory words? They're inflamed and outraged at a country who would dare speak to the acts of inhumanity around the world, to a church that would speak to the heinousness of abortion in this country, while being complicit in the systematic mistreatment and killing again and again of a segment of the population.





So yeah. I don't fault them for using inflammatory language .





What fact did he ignore and lie?

















Exactly. You shut down and stopped reading the same way a lot of white people do when a black person mentions anything to do with race. You marginalized what he had to say and thus didn't read it the same way that a lot of white people marginalize what Blacks have to say and just write it off as them being racist themselves or responsible for not acting right around the police.





White privilege says that I must be the one to frame the conversation and it must be fostered in a way that I get to lead the discussion. But you weren't trying to have a discussion except for on your terms and within the parameters that you set.





That does nothing but perpetuate the same air of privilege that existed when black people were slaves and told when they could speak and how they could speak.

I challenge you to go back to when Ferguson first happened and look at my posts. I did not condemn either party. When I saw the video of the 12 year old that got shot, I said the officer should lose his badge. I didn't know about the chokehold incident until after the fact, but I looked at it objectively and said the officer should not be tried for murder, but should be for misconduct.



How is this biased? Looking at the facts and then deciding is the epitome of not being biased. I don't want to be one of those people who cry "I have black friends" in an effort to not appear racist. But I've served with black, white, Hispanic, asin,,etc.

 

[Inspector Javert]

But then we wonder why a lot of Blacks insist that there is systemic racial prejudice.

No,
We don't "wonder" why they insist that there is systemic prejudice...
We KNOW unequivocally PRECISELY why some (not all) of them believe that...
It's because people like you keep pretending there is such a thing and repeat the mantra with the likes of that criminal Eric Holder day after day after day.

It's unsupportable and false...but that's EXACTLY why they insist it exists...
it's because you insist it is so, and some are foolish enough to follow the thinking.

I think you just demonstrated perfectly why Blacks speak of white privilege and systemic racial prejudice and flat out racism.

They speak of it because people like you tell them that it is so....

If it's anything but the narrative that the majority wants to hear, it's discounted and pushed to the side as though their reality just doesn't matter

And.........
You're totally exposed as nothing more than a democrat liberal racist schill with that phrase I just bolded right there...
No Christ-honoring reasonable Conservative sane Christian thinks that there is such a thing as "THEIR REALITY"...There is ONLY reality...
The posters you rail against would never, never, not in a million years construct a sentence with that phrase.

Only in the mind of someone who distorts reality for their own purposes does such a thing as "My reality" or "Your reality" even exist....

There is something called "REALITY":
Which is that racism does and always has existed in isolated and individual personal scenarios but it is not "systemic".

And then there are people who speak in terms of:
"Their reality"
and
"Your reality"
As though 2+2=4 in "My Reality"...
but it's equally valid to claim that 2+2=5 in "Their Reality".

That's you.

That's why people like Rev. Mitchell know they have you pegged...

He's right.

 

[Sapper Woody]

My phone quit during that last post. My point is, find one quote where I condemned either black or white before the facts came out.



"All I see is green" I used to tell my soldiers. I hold to that similar philosophy in the civilian world. All I see are people. No one is better, no one is worse.



This is not a racial issue. If there is an issue, it is police vs citizens, not white vs black.

 

[Inspector Javert]

and although it may not be my truth because it's not a reality that I've experienced,

And there you go again...

"My truth" (as though we can pick and choose)
and
"reality I've experienced"...
As though personal experience defines reality.

how can I dismiss them and say that what they experience everyday is untruthful and nonfactual?

You can when they repeatedly lie and change their testimonies (or contradict statements made to police) under oath when questioned by a sworn grand jury, and under threat of perjury...............
That's how.

But that would be a "fact-finding" scenario:
I doubt you are a fan of that.

 

[Zaac]

I challenge you to go back to when Ferguson first happened and look at my posts. I did not condemn either party.

Why would I do that? What does what you said about Ferguson have to do with what we're talking about right now? I didn't say that you condemned anyone.

When I saw the video of the 12 year old that got shot, I said the officer should lose his badge. I didn't know about the chokehold incident until after the fact, but I looked at it objectively and said the officer should not be tried for murder, but should be for misconduct.

I just said he should be tried. It didn't matter if it was misconduct, manslaughter or murder. But there should have at least been a trial. The prosecutors twice bypassed due process because they did not want to prosecute.

How is this biased? Looking at the facts and then deciding is the epitome of not being biased. I don't want to be one of those people who cry "I have black friends" in an effort to not appear racist. But I've served with black, white, Hispanic, asin,,etc.

It's biased because you're looking at a version of the facts. You're not necessarily looking at the truth. There's a difference. And there's enough of a difference that you hold a trial and let a jury decide.

 

[Zaac]

And there you go again...

"My truth" (as though we can pick and choose)
and
"reality I've experienced"...
As though personal experience defines reality.

Yes here I go again. Personal experience does define reality. You may not think that police officers are systematically killing black men, but their reality may say otherwise to them.

You can when they repeatedly lie and change their testimonies (or contradict statements made to police) under oath when questioned by a sworn grand jury, and under threat of perjury...............
That's how.

And that has nothing to do with the systematic killing of unarmed black men by police officers. Is the same thing happening to white men?

As I mentioned in anther thread

As a general rule, nothing that white people do seems to get them shot by law enforcement.
Not walking around in a big box store with semi-automatic weapons (though standing in one with an air rifle gets you killed if you’re black); not assaulting two officers, even in the St. Louis area, a mere five days after Mike Brown was killed; not pointing a loaded weapon at three officers and demanding that they—the police—”drop their f****** guns;” not committing mass murder in a movie theatre before finally being taken alive; not proceeding in the wake of that event to walk around the same town in which it happened carrying a shotgun; and not killing a cop so as to spark a “revolution,” and then leading others on a two month chase through the woods before being arrested with only a few scratches.

I doubt you are a fan of that truth.

 

[Sapper Woody]

Why would I do that? What does what you said about Ferguson have to do with what we're talking about right now? I didn't say that you condemned anyone.

It shows that I don't automatically side with the white guy. It shows that I let reason prevail, instead of emotion.

I just said he should be tried. It didn't matter if it was misconduct, manslaughter or murder. But there should have at least been a trial. The prosecutors twice bypassed due process because they did not want to prosecute.

















It's biased because you're looking at a version of the facts. You're not necessarily looking at the truth. There's a difference. And there's enough of a difference that you hold a trial and let a jury decide.

Facts are facts. There's no 'version' of facts. Fact = truth.



Now, iI'll grant that there are some facts we don't know, and those unknown facts can skew our opinion. But it's the ignoring of facts that irks me. If the black community wants to show a "systemic execution", then they need actual wrongdoings as their banner. Ferguson is a prime example. People jumped all over it with "hands up, don't shoot" then it turns out he didn't have his hands up, and in fact assaulted the officer.



If one is going to try and show more than mere coincidence, they need a LOT more of these coincidental occurrences. And they need more than raw data about how many blacks are killed by police each year. A more meaningful stat would be how many are wrongfully killed each year.



I tell you what, Zaac, you show me numbers that say more black deaths are wrongful in direct proportion to the percentage of crimes they commit, and I will openly issue an apology and admit there's a problem.

 

[Inspector Javert]

Yes here I go again. Personal experience does define reality.

It does NOT never has, never will, not in any Universe is that true.
Never.

You may not think that police officers are systematically killing black men

They are not.
They absolutely are not.
To suggest so is either mistaken or a lie.

but their reality may say otherwise to them

.
No one can help themselves to their own version of reality....
Reality is that which is TRUE.
Propositionally true.

Jesus Christ, for instance is "The way, the truth, the life"......
he goes on to say:
"NO man cometh unto the father but by me."

That's called a reality check Zaac...

Would you affirm that a committed Buddhist's "reality" is valid...
it's "his reality"????

Do you deny the need for acceptance of Christ alone?

If you do, you are an infidel...
If you don't...than you can speak no more of "his reality" and "your reality"...

That's either simply wrong-headed or demonically influenced thinking.

No such thing exists.
Q.E.D.

And that has nothing to do with the systematic killing of unarmed black men by police officers.

No systematic killing of unarmed black men by police officers in the U.S. exists.

Is the same thing happening to white men?

It is not happening to either group...

There is the systematic killing of men of any race who, when challenged by police assault them, threaten them, attempt to take their guns, and charge them with violent intent.

There is a systematic use of deadly force upon any man who threatens the lives and health of any law enforcement officer.

As a general rule, nothing that white people do seems to get them shot by law enforcement.

Are you white?
If so...
Prove your point...

The next time you are pulled over....jump out of your car, attempt to steal the officer's weapon, charge him, and also strong-arm rob an innocent sales clerk at a gas station for some cigarillos only hours before...

See if that officer doesn't blow you away the moment you grab at his gun.

Do it Zaac.

Please, do it.
I beg you to try it.


If you are white...
Please prove to us by "your reality"...

Threaten the lives of others around you and then fight with police, and attempt to steal their firearm from them, charge them with violent intent and then tell us all of your experience...

I will personally pay all your attorney's fees if he doesn't blow your butt away.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Experience will never back down to argument.

Perception will not back down to insults ... indeed it will only strengthen perception.

 

[Inspector Javert]

It's biased because you're looking at a version of the facts. You're not necessarily looking at the truth. There's a difference.

That is the definition of a stupid and self-defeating statement...

It's evil.

There are numerous "versions of the facts"?????

There's a difference between a "version of the facts"? What is that? and "truth"?????

What insane Universe are you born in?

My personal "reality"... is that I can shoot upon sight any and all persons I want to condemn as a threat to me including all democrats, all socialists, and anyone who voted for Barack Obama...

That's "My reality"....
It's my "version of the facts"....
That they are a deadly threat to me.

I have no choice but to respond in accord with my personal "truth", my own "version of the facts", my "own reality" which is that I must gun-down all democrats upon sight.


Whatever drug you smoke.....

I want some.

 

[Inspector Javert]

Experience will never back down to argument.

It does when irrefutable argument is better...
It absolutely does...

I was a Pentecostal for years...
Until irrefutable truth of Scriptural argument made me aware of my heresy.

Perception will not back down to insults ... indeed it will only strengthen perception.

Only amongst the stiff-necked.
The Godly are sensitive to correction.

The stiff-necked and the proud will always resist truth.

 

[Crabtownboy]

It does when irrefutable argument is better...
It absolutely does...[/qupote]

I said experience will not back down to argument. I did not say that beliefs will not back down to argument. Experience and belief, there is quite a difference.

 

[Revmitchell]

The idea that there is a systematic killing of black by police officers is nothing but delusional.