A Perfect Example why America will lose the war on terror....

[guitarpreacher]

Now that's just BALONEY...Uh, sorry.

The kid that left a ham sandwich on the table of Muslim children was wrong -- but this doesn't qualify as a "hate crime." It qualifies as a stupid, childish, inconsiderate middle school prank for which the kid should get a swift kick...

"Hate crimes," however, are the PC way of policing CERTAIN thoughts -- generally those thoughts that the liberal elite deem to be unacceptable. It is, therefore, acceptable to characterize [Conservative] talk radio as "hate speech," but the liberal who makes a movie about the assasination of President Bush is "an artist" whose "personal expression" is "worthy of consideration" and is a "contribution to the discourse of a society based on 1st amendment freedom of speech." It is deplorable to question the "patriotism" of flaming liberals who desire nothing more than the defeat of the United States military in wartime for the sole reason that they believe they can gain politically from the defeat, while these same people celebrate the plethora of books and magazine articles entitled "the why I hate Republicans Handbook," or "the why I hate G. W. Bush Handbook," or "why I hate conservatives," and the list goes on...

Those Mulslim children from Somalia should be treated with respect and made to feel welcome. However, they should be aware -- or educated -- that they don't live in Somalia anymore, and that the USA WELCOMES people of different religious and political persuasion and practice. If they wish to totally avoid contact with pork, ham, political comics, Christian crosses and Jewish stars or David, or even other people telling them that theirs is NOT the "true religion," then we ought to recommend they return to Somalia -- where that kind of garbage is welcomed -- and worked SO well for them. Otherwise, well, it's the Melting Pot...

JDale

Obviously you haven't read the story, or the posts by Ladyeagle. But don't let ignorance keep you from speaking out.

It wasn't a ham sandwich that was left on a table. It was a large piece of ham that was intentionally placed in the middle of the Somali students while a large number of other students looked on, apparently to see what the reaction would be.

And many here, as amazing and un-Christlike as it appears, seem to think that is exactly the way Somali CHILDREN should expect to be treated when they are in the USA.

Again, hate to keep bringing up facts, the debate here has not been about hate crimes. No one has said this should be treated as a hate crime. The debate centers on this quote from LadyEagle, "Throwing a ham sandwich on a table in a cafeteria is not a big deal."

To which I, and a few others, say that is dead wrong.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Okay, yup...I was right. You are being a hypocrite.

JDale

Of course...the ad hominem...the surrender of the man with no argument who has nothing left but personal attacks.

Just for the record, shall we count you among those who say it is fine to bully and intimidate 12 y.o. children because of their religion, rather than show God's love and grace?

 

[saturneptune]

Maybe you should read more and post less.

Understand that I feel no compulsion whatsoever to explain myself to you, but for the record, I joined the Navy when I was 17, spent a total of 12 years serving, most of in military police (Navy calls it Master-At-Arms if you want to get technical) and volunteered for Dessert Storm. If I could, I would go back in today to do my part in the WOT, but as of right now they're not taking half deaf 47 year olds. But I've got your kumaya here anytime you want to come get it.

How do you know what their life ambition is? We're talking about 12 year olds. And please tell me how throwing pork and Somali children is defending the Christian life. I'd love for someone to explain that to me. I can't believe this is even being discussed among Christians. I was an ornery cuss before I got saved (some would say I still am) but I would have never thought this kind of behavior was okay.

And did you really mean to say that in a discussion of our attitudes and beliefs that we should leave the Lord out of it? Amazing.

Baloney, and your military resume is not impressive. So what, who didnt serve during that era? I would even say others were serving in another war while you were still in school, one much more vicious than Desert Storm, (not dessert), and the Navy, oh wow, how terrifying.

Well, Ill let you go for now. You better get on that guitar so you can pluck out another sermon. Oh and thanks, but I will send my 10 yo grandson to pick up your kumbya. He does my light work.

 

[LadyEagle]

Obviously you haven't read the story, or the posts by Ladyeagle. But don't let ignorance keep you from speaking out.

It wasn't a ham sandwich that was left on a table. It was a large piece of ham that was intentionally placed in the middle of the Somali students while a large number of other students looked on, apparently to see what the reaction would be.

Read the OP - it was a piece of ham "in a bag." Not a naked piece of ham, but a piece of ham "in a bag."

And many here, as amazing and un-Christlike as it appears, seem to think that is exactly the way Somali CHILDREN should expect to be treated when they are in the USA.

No one here has said that. You are jumping to conclusions.

I'll tell you what is "Christlike" though. Jesus Christ is the answer for all these Somali children, not some hokey allah moon god. What would Jesus do? He would tell them the truth, that He and only He is the Way, Truth, and the Life - no man comes to God except through His precious shed blood on the cross of calvary, because he is the Son of God. He would tell them so and would not be concerned with political correctness.

Again, hate to keep bringing up facts, the debate here has not been about hate crimes. No one has said this should be treated as a hate crime.

Then you have not read the OP where it is stated that this incident is being under consideration as a hate crime. The debate is supposed to be about that issue, but you have thrown in a straw man and derailed the debate towards how you believe Christians should act towards muslims taking over our country and your own perceptions of the members on this board who don't think the ham is a big deal to be considered as a hate crime.

The debate centers on this quote from LadyEagle, "Throwing a ham sandwich on a table in a cafeteria is not a big deal."

It isn't. It should not be considered as a hate crime.

 

[Rooselk]

There is no war on terror. If they find exposure to ham is a hate crime, don't come to America.

Would you feel the same way if it was someone making fun of a Christian because of his religion?

 

[Dragoon68]

There is no war on terror. If they find exposure to ham is a hate crime, don't come to America.

​

Would you feel the same way if it was someone making fun of a Christian because of his religion?

Lots of people make fun of Christians - some of them do it for entertainment - and, although we don't like it, we don't charge them with "hate crimes".

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

Baloney, and your military resume is not impressive. So what, who didnt serve during that era? I would even say others were serving in another war while you were still in school, one much more vicious than Desert Storm, (not dessert), and the Navy, oh wow, how terrifying.

Well, Ill let you go for now. You better get on that guitar so you can pluck out another sermon. Oh and thanks, but I will send my 10 yo grandson to pick up your kumbya. He does my light work.

What is your military resume?

 

[Dragoon68]

Everyone who has served honorably in any of the services or any of the branches or at any time can be proud of whatever they did towards meeting the needs of our nation and can also consider themselves blessed to be able to talk about it now because many others can not having given more than any of us. We should each respect the contributions of the other. If someone chooses to mention some details of their own service there's no harm in it. Likewise, if another chooses to remain silent in the matter there's no harm in that either. Let's please not get into a destructive challenge or critique of each other's military service least we're found to be boasting or are humbled or both. Let's be grateful for all and pray that the God almighty will protect those now serving and, if it be His will, bring about a complete victory for our nation so that many more can be spared from the consequences of war.

 

[saturneptune]

What is your military resume?

More than the one I that was given to me in a rebuttal post.

 

[saturneptune]

Everyone who has served honorably in any of the services or any of the branches or at any time can be proud of whatever they did towards meeting the needs of our nation and can also consider themselves blessed to be able to talk about it now because many others can not having given more than any of us. We should each respect the contributions of the other. If someone chooses to mention some details of their own service there's no harm in it. Likewise, if another chooses to remain silent in the matter there's no harm in that either. Let's please not get into a destructive challenge or critique of each other's military service least we're found to be boasting or are humbled or both. Let's be grateful for all and pray that the God almighty will protect those now serving and, if it be His will, bring about a complete victory for our nation so that many more can be spared from the consequences of war.

You are right, and I choose to keep mine quiet. Its not something I dwell on, believe me, I am reminded of it every time I go to the VA. At the same time, I dont care to hear anyone else's either, especially when a list of duties are suppose to prove a point.

 

[KenH]

"A Perfect Example why America will lose the war on terror...."

America will never win the "war on terror" because no one can win a "war" against a tactic. And terror is a tactic.

 

[saturneptune]

"A Perfect Example why America will lose the war on terror...."

America will never win the "war on terror" because no one can win a "war" against a tactic. And terror is a tactic.

Good to see you back Ken. Really missed your posts. It is kind of like a war on poverty from the 60's, when the Bible says we will always have the poor. Maybe a war against extreme Islam is a better way to put it.

 

[KenH]

I think we have to be more specific than that for our words to mean anything. We need to understand and state that we are at war with al Qaeda, the Taliban, and their allies. And the Congress should pass a declaration of war stating so instead of passing a resolution that merely passes its constitutional authority to the president to declare war or not.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

I think we have to be more specific than that for our words to mean anything. We need to understand and state that we are at war with al Qaeda, the Taliban, and their allies. And the Congress should pass a declaration of war stating so instead of passing a resolution that merely passes its constitutional authority to the president to declare war or not.

Very sensible and level headed thoughts there, Ken. I agree with you.

 

[Dragoon68]

The enemy have already been clearly defined:

"... take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations or persons who planned, authorized, committed or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001 or harbored such persons or organizations ..."

"... take action in order to deter and prevent acts of international terrorism against the United States ..."

It's not that complicated by definition. It is a bit messy, by our enemy's choice, since they don't constitute a specific and legitimate nation and not even a unified organization.

We don't need to limit them by a specific clan or location. We may choose to limit them by threat - one by one - to fit the our needs and capabilities. One group will come up and other go down.

We just need to find them, fix them, and kill them until they stop or are no more even if it's to the end of time. We may also combine that with efforts to help establish local governments that are more favorable to peaceful co-existence.

Most likely, it will be a long and costly struggle.

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

I think we have to be more specific than that for our words to mean anything. We need to understand and state that we are at war with al Qaeda, the Taliban, and their allies. And the Congress should pass a declaration of war stating so instead of passing a resolution that merely passes its constitutional authority to the president to declare war or not.

I am researching it but I believe an actual delcaration of war creates other unintended issues that congress and the President are willing to avoid. For instance insurance companies have different responsibilities(I believe) during war. This would create hardships for the insured. It effects our economy. Declaring war cannot be done and expect business as usual. But I could be wrong.

 

[KenH]

"... take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations or persons who planned, authorized, committed or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001 or harbored such persons or organizations ..."

"... take action in order to deter and prevent acts of international terrorism against the United States ..."

It's real simple. We should officially declare war against al Qaeda, the Taliban, which includes anyone aiding them. Just as in World War II we declared war against Japan, Germany, and Italy, which included anyone aiding them.

 

[KenH]

I am researching it but I believe an actual delcaration of war creates other unintended issues that congress and the President are willing to avoid.

Yes, the major one being following the law embodied in the U.S. constitution.

 

[Dragoon68]

It's real simple. We should officially declare war against al Qaeda, the Taliban, which includes anyone aiding them. Just as in World War II we declared war against Japan, Germany, and Italy, which included anyone aiding them.

We did officially declare war against the terrorists and they include the ones you defined. They're likely to be others. They're not a nation like Japan, Germany, or Italy. It would certainly be easier if they were.

 

[Dragoon68]

Yes, the major one being following the law embodied in the U.S. constitution.

Constitutional law has been followed.