A Person, with a Weapon, Breaks into Your Home....

[Yeshua1]

Luke...

You, in post 246 of this thread, clearly accused Crabtownboy of promoting heresy, by promoting the teaching knows as "Marcionism".

Here is the the definition of Marcianism, from wikipedia....



You have publically slanderd Crabtownboy.

He never indicated in any way tha he "rejects" the the Old Testament. NONE of us on our side reject the old testament.

He was CORRECTLY saying that the new covenant scriptures are the clearest and most appropriat scriptures to heed regarding this topic.

I have 2 more things to say.

1) "Swing and a miss" for the second time.

2) You owe Crabtownboy an apology for publically acusuing him of promoting heresy.

Will he accept that God had ordained use of force in OT, and that capital punishment was amndated BEFORE the Law even was given?

 

[Alcott]

No thanks. You guys want to put God on the back burner at the time when you need Him most.

In the vast majority of cases, God does not assist in any way. Many of us have the hardware in our bones, the artificial limbs, the pacemakers, et al, to show that He is not our protector in this world. So we must be our own if you don't want to be raped, mutilated, have our eyes gouged out, have our clothes set on fire, or we're going to stand there like dimestore dummies as they do it to our kids or spouses. That's enough of this nonsense.

 

[Yeshua1]

In the vast majority of cases, God does not assist in any way. Many of us have the hardware in our bones, the artificial limbs, the pacemakers, et al, to show that He is not our protector in this world. So we must be our own if you don't want to be raped, mutilated, have our eyes gouged out, have our clothes set on fire, or we're going to stand there like dimestore dummies as they do it to our kids or spouses. That's enough of this nonsense.

I go back to this... When hitler and the Nazi marched, so we have shot bibles, not bullets at them?

 

[michael-acts17:11]

This is for those who don't understand how we can love our enemies & pray for them, yet take their lives if we had to. My brother, an ex-cop, went mental several years ago. He committed egregious acts, attacked me physically at my home, & threatened murder against many. I did not defend myself at the time because others were present to subdue him. However, I gave a public proclamation to him & the family that if he attempted to enter my property again, he would leave by cop or by coroner. I love him, but I also love my wife & children. Therefore, as a man with a God-given responsibility to protect & provide for my family, I could kill my brother in their defense. I would spend days crying & mourning his death, a lifetime wishing he had not brought our relationship to that end, but I would pull the trigger none-the-less. Life is not as simple & pristine as some like to believe. There are hard choices to be made that not everyone is capable of making.

BTW, the non-defender crowd is enjoying their freedom to hold their opinions because others defended our nation against tyranny. Therefore, their's is the greatest hypocrisy. Others have died so they can hold such a feminine pacifist position. Our liberty was wrought, not by pacifists waiting for God to send a supernatural army, but by men who believed God has given us family, freedoms, & a land that are worth fighting & dying for.

 

[Arbo]

Men who refuse to defend their families care more for the welfare of the assailant than that of their wives and children.

It is a shameful and cowardly position.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Men who refuse to defend their families care more for the welfare of the assailant than that of their wives and children.

It is a shameful and cowardly position.

This is the 2nd time that nonsense has been posted on this thread. :sleeping_2:

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Sadly, most are of the opinion that God takes a backseat to their flesh and that' it is OK.

 

[Don]

Jesus said in the New Testament, Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Sorry, but no matter how much you argue that Jesus ordained retaliation in the Old Testament, it is obvious that He ordained quite the opposite in the New Testament.

Love your enemies.
Bless them.
Do good to them.
Pray for them.

Romans 12:19 (KJV) Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

Avenge not yourselves. Don't retaliate, don't punish, don't vindicate.
Give place to wrath. Don't allow anger to rule.
Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

The child of God does not have any right whatsoever to disobey the instructions "avenge not yourselves, give place to wrath"

NNE IS ARGUING FOR RETALIATION OR VENGEANCE. Both are pre-meditated, thought-out actions that have nothing to do with on-the-spot defense of self or others.

How come I can't get any of y'all to address the passage where Jesus said He would lay in the gate to protect His flock?

Further, why do you justify your comments with an emphasis on the New Testament, when the New Testament clearly states "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever" (Heb 13:8) and "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" (2 Tim 3:16; and don't forget, this was BEFORE they had the New Testament themselves)?

And you continue to use "turn the other cheek" knowing full well that Jesus was speaking of pharisaical corrupted teachings about seeking revenge and vengeance, *not* defense.

Jesus did *not* tell Peter to lay down his sword and never pick it up again; He told Peter that He had to drink the cup that His Father had given Him.

And finally, I draw your attention to Ephesians 5 and circle back to John 10. We are to love our wives as Christ loved the church. He said He would lay in the gate, thus protecting His sheep. How can we love our wives like Christ loves the church, if we refuse to follow His words and His example?

 

[padredurand]

Sadly, most are of the opinion that God takes a backseat to their flesh and that' it is OK.

Most are of the opinion there is a difference between defending your flock and vengeance. You do not make the distinction. You have lumped all physical actions against another into one pile.

When I saw their fear, I rose and spoke to the nobles, the officials, and the rest of the people: "Do not be afraid of them; remember the Lord who is great and awesome, and fight for your brothers, your sons, your daughters, your wives, and your houses."
Nehemiah 4:14 NAS77

No anger or malice here. Just folk being responsible for their own and defending them against those that would do them harm. This is no contradictory to having faith in God. The people were told to remember God as being great and awesome and then FIGHT to protect their loved ones.

You choose not to. That is fine. I don't have that conviction. That doesn't make me faithless. :flower:

 

[Robert Snow]

Romans 12:18 (KJV)
18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

This implies that there is a condition where we can no longer live at peace with someone. If they break into my house, assault me or my wife, they have crossed that line.

 

[Arbo]

This is the 2nd time that nonsense has been posted on this thread. :sleeping_2:

Mock if it makes you feel like your position is more legitimate, but I will tell you that Mrs. Arbo sleeps better at night knowing that her husband considers part of providing (I Tim 5:8) to mean providing for her physical security. She does not expect me to stand by if she is threatened with rape by someone who breaks in in the middle of the night and do nothing but pray and hope for the best.

A man will protect that which is precious to him.

As pertains to this thread, it should be his family.

 

[IANMO(IAMNTMYOWN)]

This is for those who don't understand how we can love our enemies & pray for them, yet take their lives if we had to. My brother, an ex-cop, went mental several years ago. He committed egregious acts, attacked me physically at my home, & threatened murder against many. I did not defend myself at the time because others were present to subdue him. However, I gave a public proclamation to him & the family that if he attempted to enter my property again, he would leave by cop or by coroner. I love him, but I also love my wife & children. Therefore, as a man with a God-given responsibility to protect & provide for my family, I could kill my brother in their defense. I would spend days crying & mourning his death, a lifetime wishing he had not brought our relationship to that end, but I would pull the trigger none-the-less. Life is not as simple & pristine as some like to believe. There are hard choices to be made that not everyone is capable of making.

BTW, the non-defender crowd is enjoying their freedom to hold their opinions because others defended our nation against tyranny. Therefore, their's is the greatest hypocrisy. Others have died so they can hold such a feminine pacifist position. Our liberty was wrought, not by pacifists waiting for God to send a supernatural army, but by men who believed God has given us family, freedoms, & a land that are worth fighting & dying for.

Good point, Acts :thumbs:

 

[Steadfast Fred]

NNE IS ARGUING FOR RETALIATION OR VENGEANCE. Both are pre-meditated, thought-out actions that have nothing to do with on-the-spot defense of self or others.

How come I can't get any of y'all to address the passage where Jesus said He would lay in the gate to protect His flock?

Further, why do you justify your comments with an emphasis on the New Testament, when the New Testament clearly states "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever" (Heb 13:8) and "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" (2 Tim 3:16; and don't forget, this was BEFORE they had the New Testament themselves)?

And you continue to use "turn the other cheek" knowing full well that Jesus was speaking of pharisaical corrupted teachings about seeking revenge and vengeance, *not* defense.

Jesus did *not* tell Peter to lay down his sword and never pick it up again; He told Peter that He had to drink the cup that His Father had given Him.

And finally, I draw your attention to Ephesians 5 and circle back to John 10. We are to love our wives as Christ loved the church. He said He would lay in the gate, thus protecting His sheep. How can we love our wives like Christ loves the church, if we refuse to follow His words and His example?

I have looked through John 10, and find no statement of Jesus saying He would lay in front of a gate.

Jesus said He would lay down His life for His sheep, speaking of the crucifixion He knew was to happen. He did not say we are to shoot the enemy.

You read into the Word of God what just is not there at all.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Romans 12:18 (KJV)
18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

This implies that there is a condition where we can no longer live at peace with someone. If they break into my house, assault me or my wife, they have crossed that line.

Sounds like they have crossed the line before it has happened. You are already planning their murder before such an event takes place.

 

[michael-acts17:11]

Sounds like they have crossed the line before it has happened. You are already planning their murder before such an event takes place.

That's an asinine statement. You have clearly revealed your liberal proclivity. The home invader is responsible for his own actions. Once he has made the choice to enter the home & acts upon that decision, he has become fully responsible for whatever the consequences. It is not a preconceived murder, but a preconceived preparedness to stop a murder, rape, torture, etc. I'll never understand the liberal mind which feels "compassion" for the criminal while condemning the victims or heroes who protect potential victims.

 

[Don]

I have looked through John 10, and find no statement of Jesus saying He would lay in front of a gate.

Jesus said He would lay down His life for His sheep, speaking of the crucifixion He knew was to happen. He did not say we are to shoot the enemy.

You read into the Word of God what just is not there at all.

You read without understanding. By that I mean, you need to understand better the analogies of the shepherd.

John 10:2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

John 10:12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

So what was Jesus telling us about the wolf in verse 12? That we should just let it catch the sheep, and scatter them? And the principle there in relation to our families would be...?

 

[saturneptune]

Some trust in chariots, and some in horses. But we will remember the name of the Lord our God.

Baloney, no, you are trusting in the good will of the guy that just broke into your house. It has nothing to do with trusting the Lord. It has to do with having a backbone and love of family.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

You read without understanding. By that I mean, you need to understand better the analogies of the shepherd.

John 10:2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

John 10:12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

So what was Jesus telling us about the wolf in verse 12? That we should just let it catch the sheep, and scatter them? And the principle there in relation to our families would be...?

The "sheep" in John 10 are not families... they are the children of God.

And John 10 still says nothing of shooting someone who breaks into your home. Show me in the New Testament where Jesus shot someone for threatening Him or anyone else?

Bet you can't find that verse.

 

[freeatlast]

That's an asinine statement. You have clearly revealed your liberal proclivity. The home invader is responsible for his own actions. Once he has made the choice to enter the home & acts upon that decision, he has become fully responsible for whatever the consequences. It is not a preconceived murder, but a preconceived preparedness to stop a murder, rape, torture, etc. I'll never understand the liberal mind which feels "compassion" for the criminal while condemning the victims or heroes who protect potential victims.

Have you ever read about Jim Elliot, and his friends who were murdered in 1956 and knew it could happen and refused to shoot those who murdered them? If not you can learn about them here;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Duqi9T6JOh0

Each person has to decide how to handle this kind of thing. The only people who are "asinine" are those who mock, and ridicule them for it. There is no scripture that suggest that we are to take life. While it is permitted it is not mandated and each persons faith must be the guide, not someone else's evil remarks.

 

[Robert Snow]

Sounds like they have crossed the line before it has happened. You are already planning their murder before such an event takes place.

I thought you were at least somewhat reasonable. Looks like I was wrong.

How about commenting on the Scripture?