A Person, with a Weapon, Breaks into Your Home....

[Crabtownboy]

Contrary to liberal theologians there is a very real difference between kill and murder. God commanded that people be killed. He also says murder is a sin.

Killing is not a sin. Murder is a sin.

You are justifying your belief on the OT. Show where Jesus said killing is not a sin. Show me where he said to kill your enemy.

 

[Luke2427]

You are justifying your belief on the OT. Show where Jesus said killing is not a sin. Show me where he said to kill your enemy.

In the Old Testament.

You do realize that Jesus wrote that part, too, don't you?

 

[Crabtownboy]

In the Old Testament.

You do realize that Jesus wrote that part, too, don't you?

That is a troll reply. The thread is about someone breaking into a person's home. Remember the title of the thread is:

A Person, with a Weapon, Breaks into Your Home...

Now, where did Jesus, in the NT, say that killing your enemy is a good thing?

Where did Jesus say it is all right to kill anyone?



If you want to discuss your topic you entered above, start a new thread. Thanks.

 

[Luke2427]

That is a troll reply. The thread is about someone breaking into a person's home.

Now, where did Jesus, in the NT, say that killing your enemy is a good thing?

Where did Jesus say it is all right to kill anyone?

If you want to discuss your topic you entered above, start a new thread. Thanks.

He doesn't HAVE to say it in the New Testament. If he said it in the Old Testament that ought to be enough for any Christian who is not a Marcionite.

 

[Crabtownboy]

He doesn't HAVE to say it in the New Testament. If he said it in the Old Testament that ought to be enough for any Christian who is not a Marcionite.

Then how do you handle the contradiction you have created with your stance?

The writings in the OT were in light of what people could understand at that time. God was slowly revealing self to them. Jesus is the fullest revelation of God that we have. So, you cannot hold writings such as you use to be as accurate as those about Jesus. With Jesus we have a fuller understanding of God and thus his words in the NT are to be adhered to, especially when they contradict the OT.

I do not believe Jesus would approve killing another. I do believe he would expect us to calmly talk to that person. Hostile actions only breed hostile actions in the carnal world. Jesus did not harm anyone in the two instances I can think of where he was in danger.

Perhaps you do not believe that God revealed himself to mankind slowly with the fullest revelation being that of the life of Christ.

 

[Luke2427]

Then how do you handle the contradiction you have created with your stance?

The writings in the OT were in light of what people could understand at that time. God was slowly revealing self to them. Jesus is the fullest revelation of God that we have. So, you cannot hold writings such as you use to be as accurate as those about Jesus. With Jesus we have a fuller understanding of God and thus his words in the NT are to be adhered to, especially when they contradict the OT.

I do not believe Jesus would approve killing another. I do believe he would expect us to calmly talk to that person. Hostile actions only breed hostile actions in the carnal world. Jesus did not harm anyone in the two instances I can think of where he was in danger.

Perhaps you do not believe that God revealed himself to mankind slowly with the fullest revelation being that of the life of Christ.

I know you don't realize it, but the implications of what you are saying here mirror one of the great early heresies the Church battled- Marcionism.

The words of the Old Testament are the Words of GOD. It is great evil to repudiate them.

The only writings of the Old Testament that you get to NOT abide by are the ones which the New Testament identifies as not applicable to us (ceremonial law, Jewish civil laws, etc...)

If you repudiate the Old Testament then you have no precedent for musical instrumentation in worship, you have no permission to fight for your country, no reason to think that Jesus IS the Messiah, no indication that God blesses and curses nations, etc...

As a matter of fact when you repudiate the Old Testament you eliminate about two thirds of the Word of God.

This is a HORRIBLE practice.

Jesus does not have to say in the New Testament that it is OK to do something he already said was OK to do in the Old Testament. The only time it is not OK to do something that he said was OK to do in the OT is when he says in the New Testament that it is now NOT ok.

 

[Don]

Then how do you handle the contradiction you have created with your stance?

The writings in the OT were in light of what people could understand at that time. God was slowly revealing self to them. Jesus is the fullest revelation of God that we have. So, you cannot hold writings such as you use to be as accurate as those about Jesus. With Jesus we have a fuller understanding of God and thus his words in the NT are to be adhered to, especially when they contradict the OT.

I do not believe Jesus would approve killing another. I do believe he would expect us to calmly talk to that person. Hostile actions only breed hostile actions in the carnal world. Jesus did not harm anyone in the two instances I can think of where he was in danger.

Perhaps you do not believe that God revealed himself to mankind slowly with the fullest revelation being that of the life of Christ.

Hostile actions DO breed hostile actions. In the case you're trying to make, the person defending his house, his family--his "flock"--did not initiate the initial hostile action. The intruder did. And that is where your argument falls apart.

I posted a message about 12 pages ago that wasn't commented on. I offer John 10, where Jesus compared our situation with the shepherd and the sheep--as Jesus did with many of His comparisons. The shepherd doesn't go looking for wolves; but he readily uses his rod and his staff to protect his flock when the wolves come looking for him. And if Jesus says He Himself lay in the gate to keep the wolves from killing and slaughtering the sheep ... well, if we're to follow His example, then people, follow His example in ALL things, including protecting the "sheep" that you've been made a steward over!

-----
Luke, help us out. I may have had disagreements with the way you presented things in the past, but I readily acknowledge your authoritative knowledge of the scripture over these continued misapplications--especially since most of the "don't kill" crowd are using scripture that applies to initiating vengeance and retribution, rather than on-the-spot defense against evil.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

The mindset of people today is I am the judge, jury and executioner. God is not in the forefront, the flesh is.

God may allow that person to enter your house to test you. He may allow that person to enter your house so that that person could hear about Christ and have the opportunity to be saved and start a new life in Christ.

But the mindset is "I must protect my house, my property, my family." Forget God, I am dealing justice in the form of a swift bullet.

The flesh rules.

Romans 6:16 (KJV) Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

You may say "It's not a sin to kill an intruder in my home"

If God allowed that man to enter your house so that he might hear Christ preached, then it is a sin to kill that man. If you never share Christ with him, you are yielding yourself to the flesh and not to God.

 

[12strings]

Romans 13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For (B)there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer.

Not the same exactly as breaking into a home, I realize...but I seen nothing in these verses that would bar a Christian from being employed as the agent by which a government carries out its "Sword" duties. (Policemen, Lethal injectors, Soldiers, etc.)

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Here's the thing...

I don't love my life so much that I fear death. I am a child of God. I don't fear the one that can kill the body but can't kill the soul. If I am killed, I know where I am going. I know where my family is going.

 

[padredurand]

Here's the thing...

I don't love my life so much that I fear death. I am a child of God. I don't fear the one that can kill the body but can't kill the soul. If I am killed, I know where I am going. I know where my family is going.

So, if your child was in the road and a car was bearing down on her/him, you, knowing their spiritual condition, would not shout even a warning? Would you conclude that the driver of the car ran over your child to give you the opportunity to witness to them?

 

[Steadfast Fred]

So, if your child was in the road and a car was bearing down on her/him, you, knowing their spiritual condition, would not shout even a warning? Would you conclude that the driver of the car ran over your child to give you the opportunity to witness to them?

I don't have to worry about that. My children are all grown up and my grandchildren do not play in the street.

Maybe if I had little children who were playing in the street and a driver came bearing down on them with intent to hit them, I should follow the belief's of you guys, pull out a Colt and cap the driver?

No thanks. You guys want to put God on the back burner at the time when you need Him most.

 

[Yeshua1]

I don't have to worry about that. My children are all grown up and my grandchildren do not play in the street.

Maybe if I had little children who were playing in the street and a driver came bearing down on them with intent to hit them, I should follow the belief's of you guys, pull out a Colt and cap the driver?

No thanks. You guys want to put God on the back burner at the time when you need Him most.

What if God had ordained that the way to save the child was to shoot the attempted killer?

 

[Steadfast Fred]

What if God had ordained that the way to save the child was to shoot the attempted killer?

What if God ordained that you and your family be killed by someone who broke into your house?

 

[Yeshua1]

What if God ordained that you and your family be killed by someone who broke into your house?

Think that it is better to err on side of defending those the lord gave to me to protect!

 

[Fred's Wife]

So, if your child was in the road and a car was bearing down on her/him, you, knowing their spiritual condition, would not shout even a warning? Would you conclude that the driver of the car ran over your child to give you the opportunity to witness to them?

What kind of irresponsible parent would allow his child to play in the road?

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Think that it is better to err on side of defending those the lord gave to me to protect!

Where is that verse that says the New Testament Believer is to kill his enemy?

 

[Yeshua1]

Where is that verse that says the New Testament Believer is to kill his enemy?

jesus ordained it in the Old testament, and he will be executive people on earth when he comes back!

 

[Steadfast Fred]

jesus ordained it in the Old testament, and he will be executive people on earth when he comes back!

Jesus said in the New Testament, Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Sorry, but no matter how much you argue that Jesus ordained retaliation in the Old Testament, it is obvious that He ordained quite the opposite in the New Testament.

Love your enemies.
Bless them.
Do good to them.
Pray for them.

Romans 12:19 (KJV) Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

Avenge not yourselves. Don't retaliate, don't punish, don't vindicate.
Give place to wrath. Don't allow anger to rule.
Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

The child of God does not have any right whatsoever to disobey the instructions "avenge not yourselves, give place to wrath"

 

[Alive in Christ]

Luke...

You, in post 246 of this thread, clearly accused Crabtownboy of promoting heresy, by promoting the teaching knows as "Marcionism".

Here is the the definition of Marcianism, from wikipedia....

Marcionism was an Early Christian dualist belief system that originated in the teachings of Marcion of Sinope at Rome around the year 144[1] (see also Christianity in the 2nd century).

Marcion believed Jesus Christ was the savior sent by God, and Paul of Tarsus was his chief apostle, but he rejected the Hebrew Bible and the God of Israel.

You have publically slanderd Crabtownboy.

He never indicated in any way tha he "rejects" the the Old Testament. NONE of us on our side reject the old testament.

He was CORRECTLY saying that the new covenant scriptures are the clearest and most appropriat scriptures to heed regarding this topic.

I have 2 more things to say.

1) "Swing and a miss" for the second time.

2) You owe Crabtownboy an apology for publically acusuing him of promoting heresy.