A POSITIVE Emerging Illustration

[booklady]

Although I don't agree with all of their methods, I do agree with what they believe (click on "What We Believe" on their site) and admire their willingness to get off their backsides and do something for the cause of Christ. It sounds like some of you are mad at them for helping people. Kind of makes us look bad, doesn't it? It's so easy to sit here and type on our computers about how everyone else is doing it wrong. Frankly, I'm sick of it. Goodnight.

 

[saturneptune]

I sent some letters out against them for their ugly yards. :laugh: :laugh:

That is one of the blessings of no rain in west KY. Everyone's yard looks ugly, and no mowing required.

 

[christianyouth]

Brother, if you don't repent and believe the Gospel you are going to hell. :laugh:

But I believe you have. When I preach the Gospel, whether its street preaching (I may share a testimony publically, but typically I share one-on-one with those who are willing to stop and talk) I seek to preach the whole counsel of God. If indeed America is "post-Christian" then to tell someone Jesus loves them and died for them is doomed to failure. They don't even know they are sinners!

I preach repentance and faith in Christ. I preach sin and judgment to come. My primary purpose as a witness of Christ IS NOT to win the lost. It is NOT to be effective. Hear me on this. It is not my primary purpose. My primary purpose is to glorify God and faithfully preach the Gospel. When the Gospel is preached people WILL repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. The purpose and Redemption of Christ secured that. Of course, this doesn't mean go out there an act like a moron.

As for street preaching, I see it as "a" mode in which to preach the Gospel, not the only one. And, while I respect your belief, it has been fruitful. I have seen many over the years have their hearts opened and turn to the Lord through street preaching. As for it being effective in a post-Christian society i.e. popular, well-received, et. I don't think it was any more well-excepted when the Apostles did it.

I am always open to hearing what others are doing, where they are going, et. To preach the Gospel. Let me share one of the things I did to take the Gospel to the lost. I learned of a coffee house having an open mic night for bands. After a few satantic death metal bands finsished their thrashing I too the stage with my guitar and sang praise to our Lord Jesus Christ. You could hear a pin drop in the place. Afterwords, there were many fruitful conversations and not a few who despised, mocked, and threatend to kill me. (indeed, one person did)

Another is going with a group to a popular hangour (starbucks, universites, et) and begining a discussion on religion. O how discussions, if they are slightly loud enough, will bring others into the convo.

I'd love to hear what you guys are doing to bring the Gospel to lost.

Amen. This post made my day. Nice to see someone who doesn't have a pragmatic approach to evangelism and missions.

 

[saturneptune]

Oh. Yeah, that Phelps fellow has "issues" lol

We were just acting normal, dressed in white robes, wore fake beards to look "ancient" and ran around yelling "Repent! Repent!"

Kind of like dead theologean avatars to look ancient.

 

[tinytim]

I just read the article, and thought of something...

We shouldn't be showing people we care about them... that would be unChrist like....
We must scream at them that they are going to Hell...
After all, we all know that Jesus Christ stood in the streets and screamed at the prostitutes and drunks,

OH... Wait...
HE went to where they were to help them see the love of God...

Just like the church is doing in the OP.

I guess people must see how much we know before they see how much we care.... right... is that how your theology works?

No wonder your neighbor is going to Hell, while you are going to church praising God that you are not like them.

(The word "you" in this post is not addressing anyone in particular.. but all the lazy christians that are not willing to show the love of God to their neighbors)

 

[TCGreek]

I just read the article, and thought of something...

We shouldn't be showing people we care about them... that would be unChrist like....
We must scream at them that they are going to Hell...
After all, we all know that Jesus Christ stood in the streets and screamed at the prostitutes and drunks,

OH... Wait...
HE went to where they were to help them see the love of God...

Just like the church is doing in the OP.

I guess people must see how much we know before they see how much we care.... right... is that how your theology works?

No wonder your neighbor is going to Hell, while you are going to church praising God that you are not like them.

(The word "you" in this post is not addressing anyone in particular.. but all the lazy christians that are not willing to show the love of God to their neighbors)

1. Tim, I'm essentially in agreement with your post. I believe our theology always influences our conduct.

2. Our worldview, no matter how we choose to slice it, inevitably affects our walk in life, including evangelism.

 

[tinytim]

I really don't see how a church helping a neighborhood is considered "emergent'
That is what old fashioned churches used to do a long time ago...
If there was a need in the community, the church tried to help.

Christians help neighbors..
We don't wait until they come through our doors, and join our church before we help them...

Or am I missing something here..?

 

[TCGreek]

1. You're right. I see nothing wrong with this approach and why it should be termed Emergent.

2. The Emergent Communities are more about their postmodern stance, not their outreach effort. Their outreach efforts come from their postmodern stance, doing church as they say, in a postmodern world.

 

[saturneptune]

I really don't see how a church helping a neighborhood is considered "emergent'
That is what old fashioned churches used to do a long time ago...
If there was a need in the community, the church tried to help.

Christians help neighbors..
We don't wait until they come through our doors, and join our church before we help them...

Or am I missing something here..?

Tim,
Your post is right on target. There are those who either because of their higher degrees (which dont come with common sense) or superior knowledge of theology that they feel above this part of the Gospel and brand it as unBiblical. The second great command given by the Lord is love your neighbor as yourself. Seminary and doctorates do not take away that requirement.

 

[booklady]

I really don't see how a church helping a neighborhood is considered "emergent'
That is what old fashioned churches used to do a long time ago...
If there was a need in the community, the church tried to help.

Christians help neighbors..
We don't wait until they come through our doors, and join our church before we help them...

Or am I missing something here..?

It seems to me that is what they are doing - helping people. I guess I don't see the problem with it, either. I don't think anyone is saying that we should do everything exactly as this church is doing things but they are doing some things right. I think many Baptist churches are afraid it somehow takes away from evangelism if we spend some time helping our neighbors. I don't think anyone is saying that we can win the lost simply by painting their house; we must give them the gospel message; but we can show them that we love them and that we care by helping them. Of course this is my opinion but I don't like the way some people on here want to immediately assume that others motives are wrong. I really, really dislike that and it sometimes makes me feel very sad.

 

[saturneptune]

I really, really dislike that and it sometimes makes me feel very sad.

Not only does it make you feel sad, it is sad, the whole mindset.

 

[dan e.]

I really don't see how a church helping a neighborhood is considered "emergent'
That is what old fashioned churches used to do a long time ago...
If there was a need in the community, the church tried to help.

Christians help neighbors..
We don't wait until they come through our doors, and join our church before we help them...

Or am I missing something here..?

Sorry I haven't kept up with my own thread....had a busy weekend.

Tim, I used this church as an example because many would classify it as an emerging church, or missional, based on its characteristics. Not identified with Emergent though. I just thought I'd throw out an example of a church making a huge impact. I didn't realize it would get so much criticism for actually making themselves known in the community through service.

 

[christianyouth]

One of the problems of the church of the past century was that our obligation for evangelism was just to tell people and that was it. I don't believe that is the case. Throughout the Gospels we see Jesus teaching and exampling relating to people as part of being effective witnesses. We don't need jerks for Jesus, someone standing on a corner telling people they are going to hell. We need people who are willing to back up the conviction of that with meaningful lives of sacrifice and service to others to be able to present a credible Gospel to a lost and dying world.






As has already been mentioned, that is exactly what the apostles did. They condemned everybody. Throughout the book of Acts we read of them approaching cities and not setting up time to build relationships with the lost, but rather going and presenting the Gospel. When Paul went to Athens, we don't have record of him building friendships with the Athenians. We have record of him simply preaching God's Gospel to the inhabitants.

The thing is, lifestyle evangelism is just a trend of a pragmatic and theologically confused modern church. I don't need to build a relationship with someone to have the Gospel be effective! To suggest that is to show no understanding of conversion. God saves through the Word, he saves through preaching. Is your idea of God so small? Your God so impotent that he needs you to somehow entice people to listen to the Gospel?















We must live the Gospel and live a Gospel centered life as we are telling people the Gospel. Notice Christ's words in Matthew 5:13-16

13"You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.
14"You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. 15Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.



These verses are not referring to Evangelism.

Sorry for not responding for so long. It is hard to debate with someone when the foundations are gone. From your posts I see that most of the foundations to the Christian faith, especially conversion, are missing in your doctrine. So for me to even communicate the folly of lifestyle evangelism is a huge task.

 

[dan e.]

Sorry for not responding for so long. It is hard to debate with someone when the foundations are gone. From your posts I see that most of the foundations to the Christian faith, especially conversion, are missing in your doctrine. So for me to even communicate the folly of lifestyle evangelism is a huge task.

Jee whiz....where did you come from?? You sound a lot like a kid straight out of high school who thinks he's got it all figured out. Are you in Bible school? I'd suggest leaving it so it won't make you even more confident that you have it figured out.

Holy cow!

 

[ShotGunWillie]

As an 18 year old student, do you really think it is wise to go around throwing out criticisms of people who are serving the Lord based on just a few posts on a message board?

I am a little late with joining in on the discussion, but would someone like to explain to me what the age of a person has to do with how boldly they speak if lead by the spirit to call right, right and wrong, wrong.

Are there not examples in the Bible of great leaders, who, at a young age were used to lead God's people and drive them in the right direction.

What does his age have to do with the statements he makes. If he would not have mentioned his age, you would have never known it was not wisdom coming from someone much older.

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

It appears that this "lifestyle evangelism" is set up as diobolically opposed to preaching the truth, which is man is a sinner and on his way to hell and in need of the blood of Jesus Christ and without it they will spend eternmity in hell in separation from God.


I believe we should reach out to people through service Christ most certainly did. How about that single mother who cannot seem to make ends meet and is in need of a new washing machine. Let's get her one.

How about that elderly couple who cannot maintain the maintenance on their home any more. Let's fix their roof and mow their lawn.

But in the midst of all this do not forget the gospel. People need to hear they are sinners going to hell. But there is a solution as provided by God. It is the blood of Jesus Christ. Preaching this godly message doesn't make one a jerk The jerk is the one who witholds this message. You cannot be saved unless you recognize you are a sinner in need of redemption through the blood of the lamb. Anything less is another gospel.

 

[dan e.]

It appears that this "lifestyle evangelism" is set up as diobolically opposed to preaching the truth, which is man is a sinner and on his way to hell and in need of the blood of Jesus Christ and without it they will spend eternmity in hell in separation from God.


I believe we should reach out to people through service Christ most certainly did. How about that single mother who cannot seem to make ends meet and is in need of a new washing machine. Let's get her one.

How about that elderly couple who cannot maintain the maintenance on their home any more. Let's fix their roof and mow their lawn.

But in the midst of all this do not forget the gospel. People need to hear they are sinners going to hell. But there is a solution as provided by God. It is the blood of Jesus Christ. Preaching this godly message doesn't make one a jerk The jerk is the one who witholds this message. You cannot be saved unless you recognize you are a sinner in need of redemption through the blood of the lamb. Anything less is another gospel.

excellent post, I couldn't agree more (except for the weird "diabolical" observation). The problem is when you look at someone else, or another church (as in the OP), and you assume that they are not gospel driven. The attacks and criticisms fly without any knowledge of the group.

Many have already criticised me saying that it was the only article provided...blah blah blah...how are they to know...does that really excuse some of the way people criticise??

 

[ShotGunWillie]

The problem is when you look at someone else, or another church (as in the OP), and you assume that they are not gospel driven.

The problem still remains, that when you offer up one article for discussion and provide no further information to state that their focus is "gospel driven", then people make state the opinions based on the facts you originally provided.

How else are they to approach the subject? What responses were you hoping to gain by posting a PD Church article?

 

[dan e.]

PD Church?....are you meaning Purpose Driven?

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

...how are they to know...

And that is the hundred dollar question. There are so many false movements out there one has no way to know unless the specifics are mentioned. When you then attach the word emerging to it it will discredit it from the start to many folks.