A question of headship and leadership

[agedman]

Prophesy is not just story telling.

I agree.

Prophecy requires a revelation of a future event (yet to be known by anyone other than the prophet until it is told) and must agree with all that has been revealed by God in the past.

Then all that is spoken by the prophet must come to pass.

 

[annsni]

I agree.

Prophecy requires a revelation of a future event (yet to be known by anyone other than the prophet until it is told) and must agree with all that has been revealed by God in the past.

Then all that is spoken by the prophet must come to pass.

Where do you get that prophecy requires a revelation of a future event?

 

[agedman]

Definition from an online dictionary

proph·e·cy (prf-s)
n. pl. proph·e·cies (-sz)
1.
a. An inspired utterance of a prophet, viewed as a revelation of divine will.
b. A prediction of the future, made under divine inspiration.
c. Such an inspired message or prediction transmitted orally or in writing.
2. The vocation or condition of a prophet.
3. A prediction.


Was this not what you considered a prophet?

 

[Winman]

Ever read Proverbs 31:10-31?

Prov 31:16 She considereth a field, and buyeth it: with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard.

This verse implies this woman made a decision to buy a field without her husband's consent, she is allowed to make decisions.

Prov 31:24 She maketh fine linen and selleth it; and delivereth girdles unto the merchant.

This describes a woman operating her own business.

As someone said, Paul's statements were made in the Corinthian church where there was much confusion and chaos. Multiple people were speaking in unknown tongues at once, women were interrupting the service asking questions.

Women are allowed to speak in church. There is no prohibition of women teaching children and even teens, only adult men. You get rid of women teachers and you won't have anyone to teach the children in most churches. Thank God for women in our churches!

 

[annsni]

proph·e·cy (prf-s)
n. pl. proph·e·cies (-sz)
1.
a. An inspired utterance of a prophet, viewed as a revelation of divine will.
b. A prediction of the future, made under divine inspiration.
c. Such an inspired message or prediction transmitted orally or in writing.
2. The vocation or condition of a prophet.
3. A prediction.


Was this not what you considered a prophet?

Not all of those definitions are of future events, are they? Did every prophet only predict the future? Or did they communicate God's very word?

 

[annsni]

I checked the Webster 1828 dictionary and it also has:

"An interpreter; one that explains or communicates sentiments. Ex.7."

Exodus 7 is an interesting read in this regard and shows more fully what a prophet is.

 

[agedman]

buy and selling

Being part of the economy of the home is certainly not part of being "silent in church."

The Proverbs woman is highly skillful, and brings her abilities to benefit the family and home and her husband and children praise her.

She does not do so without the approval of the husband nor does this violate what Paul stated.

Neither does it violate the united front of the husband speaking (alone) for the family in the public in matters of policy (politics).

 

[annsni]

Being part of the economy of the home is certainly not part of being "silent in church."

The Proverbs woman is highly skillful, and brings her abilities to benefit the family and home and her husband and children praise her.

She does not do so without the approval of the husband nor does this violate what Paul stated.

Neither does it violate the united front of the husband speaking (alone) for the family in the public in matters of policy (politics).

Do you feel a woman should vote?

 

[Jim1999]

Prophets in scripture were servants of God to foretell and forthtell God's word to the people. We are so used to a mystical application we forget to think about a "preacher" telling the word of God as a prophet.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[agedman]

I checked the Webster 1828 dictionary and it also has:

"An interpreter; one that explains or communicates sentiments. Ex.7."

Exodus 7 is an interesting read in this regard and shows more fully what a prophet is.

Webster online:

"Definition of PROPHECY
1: an inspired utterance of a prophet
2: the function or vocation of a prophet; specifically : the inspired declaration of divine will and purpose
3: a prediction of something to come

Variants of PROPHECY
proph·e·cy also proph·e·sy
Examples of PROPHECY

The prophecies of the author have all come true.
She has the gift of prophecy.

Origin of PROPHECY
Middle English prophecie, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin prophetia, from Greek prophēteia, from prophētēs prophet
First Known Use: 13th century"

I don't see anything about 1828 in what Webster showed.

Your exodus 7 reference doesn't present anything new to the argument that I could discern.

 

[Winman]

Being part of the economy of the home is certainly not part of being "silent in church."

The Proverbs woman is highly skillful, and brings her abilities to benefit the family and home and her husband and children praise her.

She does not do so without the approval of the husband nor does this violate what Paul stated.

Neither does it violate the united front of the husband speaking (alone) for the family in the public in matters of policy (politics).

What this passage teaches is that a man can safely trust a good wife to make decisions on her own, he does not rule over her every action.

I would bet your wife buys the groceries each week, that is true in almost any home. I would bet you don't tell her what to buy.

Do you make a list and tell her exactly what to buy? I sincerely doubt that. You better be glad for it, she might make you do the shopping. It is a lot of work, I doubt you really want this responsibility.

Who buys the clothes for the kids? Who takes them to the doctor or their music lessons?

Be thankful if you have a good wife and don't boss her around, you have forgotten how much she does for you.

 

[agedman]

Do you feel a woman should vote?

Certainly!!!!

I think that a woman should tell her husband what to do, say, think, wear, eat, and whatever else he allows. :smilewinkgrin:

But, in public, the family should speak with one voice.

 

[agedman]

What this passage teaches is that a man can safely trust a good wife to make decisions on her own, he does not rule over her every action.

I would bet your wife buys the groceries each week, that is true in almost any home. I would bet you don't tell her what to buy.

Do you make a list and tell her exactly what to buy? I sincerely doubt that. You better be glad for it, she might make you do the shopping. It is a lot of work, I doubt you really want this responsibility.

Who buys the clothes for the kids? Who takes them to the doctor or their music lessons?.

Actually, because I am retired and my sweet bride has severe arthritis, I am the chief cook and bottle washer. I do the shopping for groceries, and we are empty nest-es.

Years ago (when I held down multiple responsibilities) my wife and I did those things you listed, together.

The proverbs wife is not just a trusted wife as you put it. That demeans all that she does for the family. Because her husband is "known in the gates," that is perhaps a ruler or judge in the city, her reputation, skill, and cunning brought more to the family than her merely being trusted.

It is reasonable to also consider that because the husband's position in the community is indicated, that the family was not divided, but the husband spoke for the home in the political realm and that the wife left such discussion out of her public sphere of interaction.

This is especially important for a wise and honored wife of a pastor, deacon, elder, or any man in church who has "control over his own house."

 

[Winman]

Actually, because I am retired and my sweet bride has severe arthritis, I am the chief cook and bottle washer. I do the shopping for groceries, and we are empty nest-es.

Years ago (when I held down multiple responsibilities) my wife and I did those things you listed, together.

The proverbs wife is not just a trusted wife as you put it. That demeans all that she does for the family. Because her husband is "known in the gates," that is perhaps a ruler or judge in the city, her reputation, skill, and cunning brought more to the family than her merely being trusted.

It is reasonable to also consider that because the husband's position in the community is indicated, that the family was not divided, but the husband spoke for the home in the political realm and that the wife left such discussion out of her public sphere of interaction.

This is especially important for a wise and honored wife of a pastor, deacon, elder, or any man in church who has "control over his own house."

If the man was a ruler and successful in public life, it is only because his wife was taking care of everything else. He wasn't telling her what to do, he trusted her to make wise decisions of her own.

I am glad you take care of your wife in her ill health, that is proper.

 

[agedman]

"If the man was a ruler and successful in public life, it is only because his wife was taking care of everything else."

I disagree.

Just because he was successful in public doesn't translate that his wife was not vocal, as it states "She openeth her mouth with wisdom; and in her tongue is the law of kindness."

She did everything to bring honor and substance to the home and family. The house was not divided by a woman who usurped the husband's roll as the authority in the home and in public.

 

[Aaron]

Yet the very same author said that a woman may prophesy and pray.

Perhaps 1 Tim. 2:12 modifies the meaning of 1 Cor. 11:5 instead of the other way around.

 

[Tom Butler]

What this passage teaches is that a man can safely trust a good wife to make decisions on her own, he does not rule over her every action.

I would bet your wife buys the groceries each week, that is true in almost any home. I would bet you don't tell her what to buy.

Do you make a list and tell her exactly what to buy? I sincerely doubt that. You better be glad for it, she might make you do the shopping. It is a lot of work, I doubt you really want this responsibility.

Who buys the clothes for the kids? Who takes them to the doctor or their music lessons?

Be thankful if you have a good wife and don't boss her around, you have forgotten how much she does for you.

This is good. Any husband who will not discuss family and financial decisions with his wife is dumb as a rock. Any husband who will not seek his wife's input on any subject is dumber than a rock. Any husband who will ignore his wife's views in the name of being the "boss" of the family deserves the title El Stupido.

That said, somebody has to make the final decision, and the scriptures say it is the husband. But remember this, the husband must be willing to die for his wife, just as Christ gave himself for his church. If your highest desire is the best for your wife; if you treat her like a princess; if you demonstrate your love for her constantly; if both of you are committed to the you'll find your bride more amenable to your role.

 

[annsni]

Certainly!!!!

I think that a woman should tell her husband what to do, say, think, wear, eat, and whatever else he allows. :smilewinkgrin:

But, in public, the family should speak with one voice.

Hmmm - You just contradicted yourself.

 

[annsni]

Webster online:

"Definition of PROPHECY
1: an inspired utterance of a prophet
2: the function or vocation of a prophet; specifically : the inspired declaration of divine will and purpose
3: a prediction of something to come

Variants of PROPHECY
proph·e·cy also proph·e·sy
Examples of PROPHECY

The prophecies of the author have all come true.
She has the gift of prophecy.

Origin of PROPHECY
Middle English prophecie, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin prophetia, from Greek prophēteia, from prophētēs prophet
First Known Use: 13th century"

I don't see anything about 1828 in what Webster showed.

Your exodus 7 reference doesn't present anything new to the argument that I could discern.

Look up the 1828 Webster dictionary. I find the definitions to be much more Biblical AND you can find the richer definitions as well. Modern dictionaries have taken out the Biblical bent of the definitions of words so I tend to go to the 1828 to check words for Scripture.

 

[annsni]

"If the man was a ruler and successful in public life, it is only because his wife was taking care of everything else."

I disagree.

Just because he was successful in public doesn't translate that his wife was not vocal, as it states "She openeth her mouth with wisdom; and in her tongue is the law of kindness."

She did everything to bring honor and substance to the home and family. The house was not divided by a woman who usurped the husband's roll as the authority in the home and in public.

When we were first struggling financially after we had children, I asked my husband if he wanted me to get a job - maybe overnight when he is home with the kids - so that we could make ends meet. He told me that he would rather I stay home and he work an extra job because he always knew that when he came home, it was a haven. Food was on the table, the children were cared for and he knew that it was a place to go that was safe but if I worked, things would begin to fall apart at home and he didn't want that.

In public it is easy to show a united front because we ARE united. On those few things we disagree on, we don't usually air it outside the home unless we seek counsel from a few close, godly friends.