A Tale of Two Faiths

[DHK]

Think about this statement for a minute...

Can it ever be said that Israel did anything without the influence of God? Certainly they rebel against God, but to Israel was given the very oracles of God (see Romans 3). So, there was indeed the influence of Israel by God Himself. The giving of the Law, the revealing of Himself in miracles (the parting of the Red Sea, etc.) IS influencing Israel.

But, as with all mankind, Israel didn't need a push to rebel. After all, the heart of man "desires only evil continually" (Genesis 6). And, this is precisely why, in Ezekiel 36, God tells the Prophet of the new heart that is needed. A new heart can do what the Law could never do--convert.

What is more, even in the midst of appalling rebellion, God intervenes and keeps a remnant for Himself:

[18] Yet I will leave seven thousand in Israel, all the knees that have not bowed to Baal, and every mouth that has not kissed him.” (1 Kings 19:18 ESV)​

The Archangel

12 men were sent into Canaan. 10 came back with a bad report; 2 with a good report. What caused the 2 to give a good report and not a bad report like the others. They were not "regenerated." There was no regeneration.
All of them had the same choice to make. Do good or bad; it is up to you.

Near the end of his life Joshua gave them the same choice:
Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
Evil or good?
idols or Jehovah?
Joshua had already made up his mind.

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK

Isaiah 66:2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.

Where was the poor and contrite spirit that God was looking for?
Where were those that trembled at His Word?

I am glad you noticed this verse DHK.....in light of what IT SAYS..perhaps you should say;

To Reformed; thank you for correcting my wrong ideas on the word corpse...

To Con 1; thank you for spotting I completely missed that word in james 2

To AA...thanks once again for correcting my wrong ideas about the greek text.
I try so hard sometimes that I go above my pay grade and teach false ideas...even though I am sincere.:thumbsup:

God could not find them. The chose to do evil, not because they had to

(as you say), but because they wanted to, in their rebellious attitude toward God. They chose disobedience over obedience.

The scripture says this is the case of all natural men-

3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.

It is not always that way.

5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth

In the time of the sending of 12 spies into Canaan to spy out the land. When the 12 returned, ten gave a bad report, and two gave a good report. Ten rebelled and caused the entire nation to rebel. The other two chose to submit to God. There is always a choice. Joshua and Caleb made the right choice without any influence from God. The other ten made a wrong decision without any influence from God.

here your man centered theology causes more error.....God preserved a remnant to make sure the godly line would be preserved. The text does not say what caused this choice.

Joshua and Caleb chose to do good, as did Abraham and their patriarchs. So did Jeremiah, their contemporary who warned them about this. But they rebelled anyway. They did have a choice. All men do. They did not have a yoke upon them to do evil.

Your ideas deny the effects of the fall each and every time.


I never said that. I said God is outside of time. He is eternal. He changes not.

You contradicted what I said trying to put words in my mouth that I never said. Do you purposely lie?

No...you and Steaver have that covered:laugh::laugh:

I don't need to study it in any detail. I already have perused it and I know it is in error in many things. I therefore avoid it.

You avoid the "things most certainly believed among us".....yes you do! We can tell by your false ideas as posted, youleave the wisdom of godly teachers for error.

 

[The Archangel]

12 men were sent into Canaan. 10 came back with a bad report; 2 with a good report. What caused the 2 to give a good report and not a bad report like the others. They were not "regenerated." There was no regeneration.
All of them had the same choice to make. Do good or bad; it is up to you.

Near the end of his life Joshua gave them the same choice:
Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
Evil or good?
idols or Jehovah?
Joshua had already made up his mind.

You say: "There was no regeneration."

Are you so certain?

Also, remember that Israel does not get these commands in a vacuum. The narrative of both Numbers and Joshua are emphasizing the rebellious nature of the Israelites--a microcosm of the fallen human condition.

Would the Israelites trust the God who parted the Red Sea? Over and over they proved they would not. But, of course, God kept a remnant for Himself--of which Joshua and Caleb were two.

Israel had already received the Law--the revelation of God (not a total but a sufficient revelation). They knew God by experience and by reputation, yet they rebelled. But, the Old Testament highlights that knowing God by experience and by reputation isn't enough to change the heart, for only God can do that. He outlines what He will do in Ezekiel 36.

The Archangel

 

[DHK]

You say: "There was no regeneration."

Are you so certain?

Also, remember that Israel does not get these commands in a vacuum. The narrative of both Numbers and Joshua are emphasizing the rebellious nature of the Israelites--a microcosm of the fallen human condition.

True, revelation is progressive. In the OT, we are told that Abraham was justified by faith. As the OT saints looked to God in faith they were made righteous or justified. Romans chapter four explains that in detail, and Romans 5:1 concludes it saying:
"Therefore, being justified by faith, we have peace with God."
In that sense salvation is the same for all of us.

Would the Israelites trust the God who parted the Red Sea? Over and over they proved they would not. But, of course, God kept a remnant for Himself--of which Joshua and Caleb were two.

Israel had already received the Law--the revelation of God (not a total but a sufficient revelation). They knew God by experience and by reputation, yet they rebelled. But, the Old Testament highlights that knowing God by experience and by reputation isn't enough to change the heart, for only God can do that. He outlines what He will do in Ezekiel 36.

The Archangel

Again, what prompted Joshua and Caleb to do good rather than evil?

When Joshua challenged the entire nation: "Choose ye this day whom ye will serve." What was the outcome?

Their answer:
Joshua 24:16 And the people answered and said, God forbid that we should forsake the LORD, to serve other gods;

The result:
Joshua 24:31 And Israel served the LORD all the days of Joshua, and all the days of the elders that overlived Joshua, and which had known all the works of the LORD, that he had done for Israel.
--Not only in Joshua's generation, but also in his elders' generation that outlived Joshua did Israel obey God. They did so out of their own choice to obey God. They weren't indwelt by the Spirit of God. Pentecost had not yet taken place. Then entire nation had been influenced by the testimony of one man and had made the choice to live as he lived. It was a voluntary choice.

 

[The Archangel]

True, revelation is progressive. In the OT, we are told that Abraham was justified by faith. As the OT saints looked to God in faith they were made righteous or justified. Romans chapter four explains that in detail, and Romans 5:1 concludes it saying:
"Therefore, being justified by faith, we have peace with God."
In that sense salvation is the same for all of us.

Again, what prompted Joshua and Caleb to do good rather than evil?

When Joshua challenged the entire nation: "Choose ye this day whom ye will serve." What was the outcome?

Their answer:
Joshua 24:16 And the people answered and said, God forbid that we should forsake the LORD, to serve other gods;

The result:
Joshua 24:31 And Israel served the LORD all the days of Joshua, and all the days of the elders that overlived Joshua, and which had known all the works of the LORD, that he had done for Israel.
--Not only in Joshua's generation, but also in his elders' generation that outlived Joshua did Israel obey God. They did so out of their own choice to obey God. They weren't indwelt by the Spirit of God. Pentecost had not yet taken place. Then entire nation had been influenced by the testimony of one man and had made the choice to live as he lived. It was a voluntary choice.

You are clearly ignoring this:

[18] Yet I will leave seven thousand in Israel, all the knees that have not bowed to Baal, and every mouth that has not kissed him.” (1 Kings 19:18 ESV)
​

The Archangel

 

[DHK]

You are clearly ignoring this:

[18] Yet I will leave seven thousand in Israel, all the knees that have not bowed to Baal, and every mouth that has not kissed him.” (1 Kings 19:18 ESV)
​

The Archangel

Rather I think you are ignoring the questions I have asked of you.
You are answering a question with a question which is digressing from the topic. God promised a remnant. This was an encouragement to Elijah after he had run from Jezebel. He was not alone. There were other Israelites also that had not bowed their knee to Israel. It is not a prophecy but an encouragement. You are taking it out of its context.

 

[Iconoclast]

Again, what prompted Joshua and Caleb to do good rather than evil?

When Joshua challenged the entire nation: "Choose ye this day whom ye will serve." What was the outcome?

They were supposed to obey.They were already typically redeemed.

Their answer:
Joshua 24:16 And the people answered and said, God forbid that we should forsake the LORD, to serve other gods;
.
--Not only in Joshua's generation, but also in his elders' generation that outlived Joshua did Israel obey God.

They did so out of their own choice to obey God. They weren't indwelt by the Spirit of God.

So you suggest they were saved in the flesh, by what they did? Is that your position? Men are saved by what they do? The Spirit did not save OT saints?

Pentecost had not yet taken place. Then entire nation had been influenced by the testimony of one man and had made the choice to live as he lived. It was a voluntary choice.

No one was saved until Pentecost?

 

[DHK]

This was the nation of Israel. They were a theocracy. The entire nation was under the rule of God at this time. They rebelled against God as a whole. Why did the ten men lead the nation in rebellion against God by their own free will? They had a choice. Who said they were not redeemed? They were just as redeemed as the rest. The whole nation was a nation called out of God.

So you suggest they were saved in the flesh, by what they did? Is that your position? Men are saved by what they do? The Spirit did not save OT saints?

Start a thread on "regeneration" in the OT, and the indwelling of the Spirit of believers in the OT, and see how far you get. You will get as many different opinions as you will posters. The Bible is not definitive on this subject unless you equate salvation with regeneration. And if that be the case, it shoots down most of your Calvinistic theology.
Romans chapter four, as well as many other passages in the Bible, teach that Abraham was justified by faith.
The just shall live by faith. A man is justified by faith. That is true in the OT as it is in the NT.

No one was saved until Pentecost?

I never said that. Is that what you believe?

 

[The Archangel]

Rather I think you are ignoring the questions I have asked of you.
You are answering a question with a question which is digressing from the topic. God promised a remnant. This was an encouragement to Elijah after he had run from Jezebel. He was not alone. There were other Israelites also that had not bowed their knee to Israel. It is not a prophecy but an encouragement. You are taking it out of its context.

I am doing nothing of the sort...

This verse--within the surrounding context--speaks to what God Himself does to keep a remnant.

God's work, His intervention in the hearts of some Israelites is in view and that directly contradicts your presuppositions of what does and doesn't happen in the Old Testament. That is why I asked you to deal with the verse (which I posted and you ignored long before you asked me any questions on this matter).

The Archangel

 

[DHK]

I am doing nothing of the sort...

This verse--within the surrounding context--speaks to what God Himself does to keep a remnant.

God's work, His intervention in the hearts of some Israelites is in view and that directly contradicts your presuppositions of what does and doesn't happen in the Old Testament. That is why I asked you to deal with the verse (which I posted and you ignored long before you asked me any questions on this matter).

The Archangel

No, it doesn't. The Lord was encouraging Elijah as he sat discouraged. He told Elijah that he wasn't the only one standing for the Lord, but that he had 7,000 others "that had not bowed the knee to Baal." That is the context here. Elijah had just had 450 prophets of Baal killed.

Now what happens in chapter 20?
1Ki 20:13 And, behold, there came a prophet unto Ahab king of Israel, saying, Thus saith the LORD, Hast thou seen all this great multitude? behold, I will deliver it into thine hand this day; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD.
1Ki 20:14 And Ahab said, By whom? And he said, Thus saith the LORD, Even by the young men of the princes of the provinces. Then he said, Who shall order the battle? And he answered, Thou.
1Ki 20:15 Then he numbered the young men of the princes of the provinces, and they were two hundred and thirty two: and after them he numbered all the people, even all the children of Israel, being seven thousand.

Here are the 7,000 that had not bowed the knee to Baal, ready to do battle against Benhadad. And they are victorious.
Elijah need not feel like he is the only one. He is to anoint Elisha to take his place, Jehu would become king over Israel to execute judgment. Besides this, there was the army of 7,000. The lesson: Elijah could not consider himself as indispensable. No man can. God can always raise up someone else.

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK

No, it doesn't. The Lord was encouraging Elijah as he sat discouraged. He told Elijah that he wasn't the only one standing for the Lord, but that he had 7,000 others "that had not bowed the knee to Baal." That is the context here. Elijah had just had 450 prophets of Baal killed.

Wrong once again:laugh:

God always keeps an elect remnant;

While you avoid and miss the truth ...it is everywhere...The Spirit has Paul tell us the truth that eludes you still.

rom11
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

rom9
27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha

from Isa1;
9 Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah

We all believe and rejoice in the truths you deny left and right.
You fight against the truth day after day....the Things most surely believed among us.:thumbs:

 

[DHK]

DHK



Wrong once again:laugh:

God always keeps an elect remnant;

While you avoid and miss the truth ...it is everywhere...The Spirit has Paul tell us the truth that eludes you still.

rom11
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

rom9
27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha

from Isa1;
9 Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah

We all believe and rejoice in the truths you deny left and right.
You fight against the truth day after day....the Things most surely believed among us.:thumbs:

1Kings 19 has nothing to do with Romans 11.
Nice try though.

 

[Iconoclast]

1Kings 19 has nothing to do with Romans 11.
Nice try though.

:laugh: Nothing at all......EXCEPT THE HOLY SPIRIT HAD PAUL QUOTE IT.....and explain it for us ...in case false teachers would come along and try to deny these truths. A direct quote...the Holy Spirit gives the meaning and you still deny it:laugh:

This takes the cake:thumbs:

between you , Van, and Steaver it is a wonder what we can discover:wavey:

 

[The Archangel]

No, it doesn't. The Lord was encouraging Elijah as he sat discouraged. He told Elijah that he wasn't the only one standing for the Lord, but that he had 7,000 others "that had not bowed the knee to Baal." That is the context here. Elijah had just had 450 prophets of Baal killed.

Now what happens in chapter 20?
1Ki 20:13 And, behold, there came a prophet unto Ahab king of Israel, saying, Thus saith the LORD, Hast thou seen all this great multitude? behold, I will deliver it into thine hand this day; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD.
1Ki 20:14 And Ahab said, By whom? And he said, Thus saith the LORD, Even by the young men of the princes of the provinces. Then he said, Who shall order the battle? And he answered, Thou.
1Ki 20:15 Then he numbered the young men of the princes of the provinces, and they were two hundred and thirty two: and after them he numbered all the people, even all the children of Israel, being seven thousand.

Here are the 7,000 that had not bowed the knee to Baal, ready to do battle against Benhadad. And they are victorious.
Elijah need not feel like he is the only one. He is to anoint Elisha to take his place, Jehu would become king over Israel to execute judgment. Besides this, there was the army of 7,000. The lesson: Elijah could not consider himself as indispensable. No man can. God can always raise up someone else.

Again, you're completely missing the point...

The point is that God kept believers for Himself. It isn't that there were 7,000 who hadn't worshiped Baal. It was (and is) that God kept this remnant for Himself.

The reason they hadn't worshiped Baal is because of God's intervention, not their own free will.

The Archangel

 

[DHK]

Again, you're completely missing the point...

The point is that God kept believers for Himself. It isn't that there were 7,000 who hadn't worshiped Baal. It was (and is) that God kept this remnant for Himself.

The reason they hadn't worshiped Baal is because of God's intervention, not their own free will.

The Archangel

No, you are. You are taking this completely out of its context. Elijah was confronting the most wicked king and queen in the history of Israel. God used this to comfort Elijah who sank into a period of discouragement after a great and glorious victory over the prophets of Baal. I don't know how you can miss this or take it out of context.
There is no remnant. You are butchering the scriptures. He is speaking of the Ten Northern Tribes here. They are the ones that are going astray.

At the time of Ahab, Jehoshaphat came to the throne of Judah.
2 Chronicles 17:3 And the LORD was with Jehoshaphat, because he walked in the first ways of his father David, and sought not unto Baalim;
--If there was any so-called "remnant" it is with the house of David, not with the ten northern tribes who quickly went into apostasy especially under Ahab and Jezebel. Continue to read chapters 20 and following.

 

[The Archangel]

No, you are. You are taking this completely out of its context. Elijah was confronting the most wicked king and queen in the history of Israel. God used this to comfort Elijah who sank into a period of discouragement after a great and glorious victory over the prophets of Baal. I don't know how you can miss this or take it out of context.
There is no remnant. You are butchering the scriptures. He is speaking of the Ten Northern Tribes here. They are the ones that are going astray.

At the time of Ahab, Jehoshaphat came to the throne of Judah.
2 Chronicles 17:3 And the LORD was with Jehoshaphat, because he walked in the first ways of his father David, and sought not unto Baalim;
--If there was any so-called "remnant" it is with the house of David, not with the ten northern tribes who quickly went into apostasy especially under Ahab and Jezebel. Continue to read chapters 20 and following.

Again, you are referencing facts-not-in-evidence.

I agree that Elijah was discouraged, thinking himself to be the only Yahweh worshiper left. I agree that God encourages Elijah. But, the difference is how God encourages Him.

The text clearly shows God telling Elijah that He (God) has kept 7,000 worshipers for Himself. The context is that God is telling Elijah that he is--indeed and most-decidedly--NOT the last Yahweh worshiper remaining.

God encourages Elijah, certainly. But He encourages him with His electing sovereignty. This is, by the way, exactly the point the Apostle Paul makes in Romans when he cites this passage.

You may not want to deal with the phrase "I have kept for myself" but it is the elephant in the room for you and your "theology." God is doing the keeping. Come to grips with that.

The Archangel

 

[RLBosley]

1Kings 19 has nothing to do with Romans 11.
Nice try though.

 

[Protestant]

A Tale of Two Faiths – Chapter 3

Christian: Hey there, Preacher Man. I know how busy you are, what with preparing sermons, visiting the sick and elderly, feeding the hungry, etc., etc. But if I contribute a few shekels to your ministry may I ask you a few questions?

Preacher Man: Alright. But please respect the position of authority to which I have been given in the care of souls.

Christian: No worries. I will only speak according to the Scriptures.

Romans 5:1 declares we are justified by faith.

Romans 3:24 declares we are justified by grace.

Therefore, justifying faith must be of grace since justification is by grace.

That being said, our faith must be God’s gift to us since grace is His gift, not our gift.

What say you, Preacher Man?

Preacher Man: How much did you say you’re donating?

Christian: I didn’t. Furthermore, Romans 4: 16 corroborates the truth that our faith is the gracious gift of God:

Therefore it [salvation] is of faith, that it [salvation] might be by grace;

Please note that Scripture did not say:

Therefore it [salvation] is of faith, that it [salvation] might be by the power of your free will to choose or not to choose.

Preacher Man: I care not how many Scriptures you cite. I will not convert to heretical Calvinism.

Christian: Citing biblical texts is heretical? Your argument is not with Calvin or Calvinists. Your argument is with God Almighty!

 

[convicted1]

DHK

 

[DHK]

Again, you're completely missing the point...

The point is that God kept believers for Himself. It isn't that there were 7,000 who hadn't worshiped Baal. It was (and is) that God kept this remnant for Himself.

The reason they hadn't worshiped Baal is because of God's intervention, not their own free will.

The Archangel

Must you read election and predestination into every passage?
Did God take blind-folds and blind these men that they could not see any altars of Baal?
Did he tie their feet that they could not go to any of their altars?
Did he take away their comprehension that they could not think of these false gods?

Or perhaps, just perhaps, it is of their own free will that they chose not to serve Baal, and chose to serve Jehovah instead--as did Elijah. No one compelled or forced them.

Consider once again the historical setting.
Elijah had won a stunning victory in defeating 450 prophets of Baal and convincing Israel who is the real God:
1 Kings 18:39 And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces: and they said, The LORD, he is the God; the LORD, he is the God.

But when Jezebel heard of it, she threatened Elijah's life and Elijah ran in fear and became discouraged. God comforted him, speaking to him:
1 Kings 19:12 And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.

1 Kings 19:16 And Jehu the son of Nimshi shalt thou anoint to be king over Israel: and Elisha the son of Shaphat of Abelmeholah shalt thou anoint to be prophet in thy room.
1 Kings 19:18 Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him.

In the above verse--the KJV--the word "me" is not in the Greek.
Look at a couple of other translations:
(MKJV) Yet I have left seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed to Baal, and every mouth which has not kissed him.

(YLT) and I have left in Israel seven thousand, all the knees that have not bowed to Baal, and every mouth that hath not kissed him.'

He is simply saying: "I have left 7,000 in Israel..." They were men, who of their own free will, did not bow their knee to Baal. God is reassuring Elijah that he is not the only one standing there and serving God. There are others doing the same work.
There also will be Jehu and Elisha to add to the leadership.

Now look at some biblical principles:
1 Corinthians 10:6 Now these things were our examples,...
1 Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
--Paul uses a number of OT historical examples as illustration to teach NT truth.
He does the same thing in Romans chapter 11.

Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
--Paul first identifies with the nation of Israel himself.
Has God cast them away, replaced them, or do they still exist?
In no uncertain words Paul, identifying with Elijah, and says that Israel still exists. He identifies them as "his kinsmen" in Romans 9:1-4 and 10:1-4.
If anything this passage strongly refutes those who believe in replacement theology or any similar doctrine. Israel still exists. Paul was acknowledging its existence then, and a remnant would continue to exist in the future. The would always exist. God would make sure of that.
Paul was an Israelite, and he would not be the only one.

Romans 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
--He refers back to the story of Elijah.

Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
--Even now, now during the time of Paul does Israel exist. Israel has not been replaced by the church or by Christianity. Christianity or "the Church" is not a continuation of Israel. Israel as an entity in and of itself still exists. Again, it is a blow to the "Replacement Theology" idealists. There is a remnant now, and there will be a remnant in the future whether or not they have now received the Messiah is not relevant at this present time.
But in the future they will receive the Messiah (verse 26).
--Elijah should not have been discouraged; neither should we. Israel still exists and she still will be here when Christ comes again. This is all of God's grace, not of any work on Israel's part as is so emphasized in verse 6.