A very interesting God.

[kyredneck]

You have to admit, he sees Calvinism under every rock and behind every tree and there's no limit to the chop suey he'll make of scripture in his obsession to stamp it out.

 

[Winman]

If you could only stamp the Doctrines of Grace the world's problems would be solved, wouldn't it?

No, we would still have cockroaches.

 

[kyredneck]

That wasn't very nice. Quantumfaith, tell Winman that wasn't very nice.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

No, we would still have cockroaches.

Those thing will survive a nuclear war, so it's not like much of anything in this world is gonna get rid of 'em.

 

[pinoybaptist]

I think what they are doing is trying to prove Limited Atonement. They want to prove that God doesn't really want to save everyone, but only a few elect persons. They do this by pointing out as many people as they can that aren't hearing the gospel.

They aren't saying this directly, they are subtly implying it.

your bigotry is as thick as a concrete wall and you don't even know it. at least the others are trying to discuss this civilly, which is what I am attempting to do.
if YOU can't live up to your Christianity stay away from this forum.

 

[pinoybaptist]

So what exactly is your view on the verse? Do you believe it means we should try to tell others about the gospel, or not?

I have nothing against preaching the gospel. I have everything against making the gospel THE cause or means of ETERNAL salvation. It is not. and yet that is what we are led to understand in most seminaries. And that is what I gather from some of the discussions, comments, threads on this board. Or at least, that if the gospel is not preached, then souls are lost and condemned to hell.
That is false.
Take a look again at the verse, and ask yourself, who is the speaker ?
It is the Creator God in the Person of His Son, Jesus Christ.
What is the occasion of this conversation ?
A command is being given to spread the news, the good news, of a finished and complete salvation that has been accomplished by the Creator Himself.

This is the Creator who said His word will not return to Him void, the very Creator God who turned a proud king into a lycantrophe and gave that king reason to say that this God does what He will in the army of heaven and of earth.
If any of the above are true, and if it is His purpose to redeem men to Himself, then He MUST HAVE DONE IT ALREADY.

But what did fallen man do ?
In the course of time, the focus became the importance of preaching the gospel, doctrines were developed in the seminaries that without the preaching of the gospel nothing the God-man did would be effective.

That is the point of this whole exercise.

That is what I mean with "there are those falling between the cracks", that is why I quoted statistics on birth rates.
To see if it is reasonable to say that IF PREACHING THE GOSPEL IS WHERE ETERNAL SALVATION LIES, then all is in vain and God, for all He had done and said about Himself, failed.

And that is just not so.
God NEVER FAILS.

So, if preaching the gospel is not the cause of eternal salvation, or the means, or the vehicle, then obviously there is an importance in preaching the gospel, and the God of all wisdom made no mistake in assigning it to His apostles, disciples, and the churches.

Perhaps we could discover it, and agree, or maybe we will not, and continue to be in the dark (well, I am not in the dark).

However, certain personalities on this board seem unable to put their contemptuous bigorty in check.

 

[Iconoclast]

That wasn't very nice. Quantumfaith, tell Winman that wasn't very nice.

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[evangelist6589]

130 million babies are born every year,and out of this number 4 million die in the first 4 weeks of their lives.
source: http://www.ask.com/question/how-many-babies-are-born-each-year

In the United States alone, over 200,000 new Americans are born each year.
Now, consider: not all of these, worldwide or national, babies will actually reach maturity (as in die in the ripe old age of.....), some will die in infancy, some in adolescence, some in their teens, some as young adults, some in their middle age, and so on...the thing is they will die.
and while they are dying or growing up, EVERY YEAR, close to the same number of babies will be born.

Then, consider, not all of these babies will be born in technologically advanced countries.
some will be born rich, middle class, working class, or just dirt poor.
some will have the best education, some average, some none at all.
worldwide, babies will be born in Islamic-dominated countries, and others in non-Christian countries, while still others in nihilist societies.

Will there be enough missionaries, preachers, lay preachers, "soul winners", "church workers", to take the gospel to each and everyone of these babies and get them "saved" from the fires of hell and the wrath of God ?

Remember, Arminians and non-Calvinists, and even many among the Reformed and Calvinistic churches, and a lot more of different soteriological colors in between, strongly insist that God demands that the gospel is preached to EVERYONE.

Obiously, it is utterly IMPOSSIBLE for ANY MAN to be able to fulfill that command, just as it is impossible for an unregenerate to come to the true God entirely on his own volition.

This God is interesting, really.

Heaven is His throne, the Universe cannot contain Him, He created the world as we see it, He created the first man from clay, the first woman from the rib of that first man, He created an ENTIRE NATION from the loins of one man, needed only 300 dog-like warriors (they lap water with their tongues), divided a sea so people could cross over, name EVERY STAR in the constellation, describes Himself as Omnipotent, Omniscient, and Omnipresent, commands waves and winds ,and send ravens to feed a prophet, turns water into wine, rose from the dead, raised people from the dead, He does EVERYTHING IMPOSSIBLE.

Yet He expects responsibility from a sin and trespass deadened creation ?
Yet He expects men, limited in all their abilities, to be instrumental in taking His gospel to EVERY MAN, WOMAN, AND CHILD WHO WILL EVER LIVE IN THIS PLANET so they can get saved ?
yet He expects a gospel, by its very name and definition, simply, GOOD NEWS, to complete His work of redemption ?

very interesting God.

It will be equally interesting to find out how those on this board proposes to do what they say this interesting God expects them to do.
THAT IS THE QUESTION.
The rest: backgrounder.

Are you kidding me??? Are you kidding me??? Have you ever read Mark 16? Do you know what it says? Let me quote it for you.

Mark 16:14-16 (KJV)

Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Also Matthew 28:18-20 (KJV)

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Why oh why do you ignore this simple command? The Great Commission is for all believers to carry out and God seeks the salvation of everyman (2 Pet 3:9).

 

[evangelist6589]

I think what they are doing is trying to prove Limited Atonement. They want to prove that God doesn't really want to save everyone, but only a few elect persons. They do this by pointing out as many people as they can that aren't hearing the gospel.

They aren't saying this directly, they are subtly implying it.

Watch out man the OP is a Hyper Calvinist. God desires all to be saved (2 Pt 3:9) and any good calvinist or Arminian will seek that all come to salvation and preach that Christ loves them, but before that will preach LAW TO THE PROUD AND GRACE TO THE HUMBLE.

 

[evangelist6589]

Yea, a sneaky subtle conniving bunch we are.....

....be careful there's apt to be a Calvinist hiding under any rock or behind any tree at any time....and then BAM! They jump out scare you with scripture! LOL!

He's a Hyper-Calvinist BIG DIFFERENCE.

 

[evangelist6589]

your bigotry is as thick as a concrete wall and you don't even know it. at least the others are trying to discuss this civilly, which is what I am attempting to do.
if YOU can't live up to your Christianity stay away from this forum.

I am not sure who I would vote for in this boxing match of Hyper calvinist vs. Arminian.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

That wasn't very nice. Quantumfaith, tell Winman that wasn't very nice.

Pattern your life thus...:applause:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I am not sure who I would vote for in this boxing match of Hyper calvinist vs. Arminian.

Sprolll :laugh: maybe WOTM....ROFL!

 

[pinoybaptist]

Are you kidding me??? Are you kidding me??? Have you ever read Mark 16? Do you know what it says? Let me quote it for you.

Mark 16:14-16 (KJV)

Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Also Matthew 28:18-20 (KJV)

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Why oh why do you ignore this simple command? The Great Commission is for all believers to carry out and God seeks the salvation of everyman (2 Pet 3:9).

Lol.

Is that the best you can do ?
I have a big letter Thompson Bible right now in the room.
Another big red letter Bible in the car, which I read during breaks.
With the click of a mouse I can go to crosswalk or blue letter bible online and investigate all commentaries as well as view Scriptures.
So I know what those Scriptures say.
And all you guys can throw at me is an accusation of being hyper-Calvinist and/or of ignoring the Scripture.
You all like to go on and on about how this or that idol author of yours so do an excellent exposition of this or that verse.
And, YOU, Evan, like to go on and on about your scholarly search for more knowledge and wisdom, BUT, you do not see the reason for my statements and questions.
So, here I will put it in bold print, and give you all a clue, and speaking of clues, they're scattered all over the place even an atheist might see them.

HOW COULD THE CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE ISSUE A COMMAND TO HIS DISCIPLES AND APOSTLES WHICH HE KNOWS IS HUMANLY IMPOSSIBLE TO DO SUCH AS PREACH THE GOSPEL TO EVERY CREATURE ?

Clue: the verse you quoted, specifically, verse 16.

Clue to the clue: obviously, to be "saved" in the context of which the Lord speaks is not the same as to be "saved" by the act which He JUST DID FOR SINNERS ALREADY! (like I said, even an atheist will see this).

Unless He is saying that the very act from which He just rose from the dead, was incomplete and cannot be done unless the gospel is preached. Now, is this what you and yours on here are saying ?

So, take off your bigotry glasses and give an intelligent, well-thought of answer instead of looking at the color of my extra-dark HYPER-CALVINIST SKIN, and, "..said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth?" (do you know who said this in which Scripture ?).:laugh:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Lol.

Is that the best you can do ?
I have a big letter Thompson Bible right now in the room.
Another big red letter Bible in the car, which I read during breaks.
With the click of a mouse I can go to crosswalk or blue letter bible online and investigate all commentaries as well as view Scriptures.
So I know what those Scriptures say.
And all you guys can throw at me is an accusation of being hyper-Calvinist and/or of ignoring the Scripture.
You all like to go on and on about how this or that idol author of yours so do an excellent exposition of this or that verse.
And, YOU, Evan, like to go on and on about your scholarly search for more knowledge and wisdom, BUT, you do not see the reason for my statements and questions.
So, here I will put it in bold print, and give you all a clue, and speaking of clues, they're scattered all over the place even an atheist might see them.

HOW COULD THE CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE ISSUE A COMMAND TO HIS DISCIPLES AND APOSTLES WHICH HE KNOWS IS HUMANLY IMPOSSIBLE TO DO SUCH AS PREACH THE GOSPEL TO EVERY CREATURE ?

Clue: the verse you quoted, specifically, verse 16.

Clue to the clue: obviously, to be "saved" in the context of which the Lord speaks is not the same as to be "saved" by the act which He JUST DID FOR SINNERS ALREADY! (like I said, even an atheist will see this).

Unless He is saying that the very act from which He just rose from the dead, was incomplete and cannot be done unless the gospel is preached. Now, is this what you and yours on here are saying ?

So, take off your bigotry glasses and give an intelligent, well-thought of answer instead of looking at the color of my extra-dark HYPER-CALVINIST SKIN, and, "..said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth?" (do you know who said this in which Scripture ?).:laugh:

Ah come on Tim....my Italian family called me the"Po......ish" because of skin color and hair color. My grandfather told me that I would end up a vodka drunk like all the other polskies (forgetting that I'm his daughters son) :laugh: Tim, that should tell ya something about people who cant get out of their own way mentally:smilewinkgrin:

 

[pinoybaptist]

Ah come on Tim....my Italian family called me the"Po......ish" because of skin color and hair color. My grandfather told me that I would end up a vodka drunk like all the other polskies (forgetting that I'm his daughters son) :laugh: Tim, that should tell ya something about people who cant get out of their own way mentally:smilewinkgrin:

gosh, man.
I really can't believe this.
These guys make me think of Roman Catholic priests who spend more than 10 years in seminary reading every philosophy and logic book their library and curriculum offers PLUS the Bible and still couldn't get over their works-based quid por quo theology.
you know, there was an open board I used to go to where even atheists contribute to the discussion.
they were talking once about the call to repentance, and I was at that point in time torn between my old soteriology and the doctrine of grace and one atheist mocked us believers by calling us all stupid like the God we propose to worship.
Reason ?
How can we find the gall to go and tell him, an atheist, to repent, when the very Bible we hold forward say that non-believers are DEAD in sin and trespasses and then he pointed to Ephesians 2.
Like I said, If there were an atheist on this board right now reading this thread he probably would've spotted the clues all over.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Prospective

gosh, man.
I really can't believe this.
These guys make me think of Roman Catholic priests who spend more than 10 years in seminary reading every philosophy and logic book their library and curriculum offers PLUS the Bible and still couldn't get over their works-based quid por quo theology.
you know, there was an open board I used to go to where even atheists contribute to the discussion.
they were talking once about the call to repentance, and I was at that point in time torn between my old soteriology and the doctrine of grace and one atheist mocked us believers by calling us all stupid like the God we propose to worship.
Reason ?
How can we find the gall to go and tell him, an atheist, to repent, when the very Bible we hold forward say that non-believers are DEAD in sin and trespasses and then he pointed to Ephesians 2.
Like I said, If there were an atheist on this board right now reading this thread he probably would've spotted the clues all over.

Maybe because both you and I were raised as Roman Catholics, we recognize the implications of 'QUID PRO QUO' / Something for Something doctrine and we stay up nights reevaluating everything we are taught to believe. The first great eye opener when we discover true doctrine that has its origins in the teaching of Jesus. There is your basics. From this vantage point, you start to throwof cultural trends like humanism, secularism, materialism etc. From our "Old School " prospective, the church....particularly the American churches, have become worldly.....so here we are, either accepting of it (which I will never do) or trying to understand where everything fits into place....AND NOTHING FALLS THROUGH THE CRACKS. And that's where you (and I) are at brother. So if you wish to publically embellish on this, please proceed knowing full well that you will get pushback. Or if you perfer, we can discuss these subjects privately....you decide.

Gods blessings to you brother.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Maybe because both you and I were raised as Roman Catholics, we recognize the implications of 'QUID PRO QUO' / Something for Something doctrine and we stay up nights reevaluating everything we are taught to believe. The first great eye opener when we discover true doctrine that has its origins in the teaching of Jesus. There is your basics. From this vantage point, you start to throwof cultural trends like humanism, secularism, materialism etc. From our "Old School " prospective, the church....particularly the American churches, have become worldly.....so here we are, either accepting of it (which I will never do) or trying to understand where everything fits into place....AND NOTHING FALLS THROUGH THE CRACKS. And that's where you (and I) are at brother. So if you wish to publically embellish on this, please proceed knowing full well that you will get pushback. Or if you perfer, we can discuss these subjects privately....you decide.

Gods blessings to you brother.

Thank you, brother.
I will proceed with this publically, and if there are things you'd rather discuss by pm, don't hesitate to do so.
I would welcome those who could contribute AS CHRISTIANS.
Otherwise, if they can't they can stay away and I don't care if it's just you and I.
But right now, the wife and I gotta go somewhere.
Catch you later.

 

[Jacob_Elliott]

Watch out man the OP is a Hyper Calvinist. God desires all to be saved (2 Pt 3:9) and any good calvinist or Arminian will seek that all come to salvation and preach that Christ loves them, but before that will preach LAW TO THE PROUD AND GRACE TO THE HUMBLE.

http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/are-there-two-wills-in-god

 

[salzer mtn]

pinoybaptist, I have a question, If you came upon a very bad automobile wreck and let's say a very dear friend or unsaved relative was pinned under the car and there was no help of any kind any where, just you two and this person was slowly dying, but was conscience, would you talk to them about their eternal salvation ? if so, what would you say ?