Just like the move "The Apostle" :laugh:
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A very interesting God.
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Just like the move "The Apostle" :laugh:
no, I would not.
anybody's eternal salvation is out of anybody's hands, since, and then.
as well-meaning as we all may be, this is a FACT.
if there is a time to talk to anyone about eternal salvation it is to a congregation who cherishes the same hope as the one behind the pulpit does.
and the talk should be of Jesus crucified, died, was buried, and risen again, and the lively hope this means to all who name His Name as his own here in time.
I am convinced that is what Paul meant when he said he preached Christ crucified.
Christ is spoken of to those who seek Him which could mean a quickened soul.
To those who don't, I am being untruthful if I speak to them and promise them eternal life IF they will call on the Name of the Lord, and I don't care if it's in the scene of a terrible accident such as the one you describe, or if the dying one is my very brother in the flesh.
I will pray FOR him, yes, that God in His boundless mercy may perhaps had made provision for his eternity.
:laugh: you saw that movie, too, eh ?
evenifigoalone
Well-Known Member
I don't agree, but don't see any point in arguing. God bless.
besides, that topic is better off talked about in another thread. it could derail this thread.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
God will bring all his elect to Salvation in Jesus Christ!
In the ETERNAL salvation of His people, the matter is already done. It is not being done.
In the "gospel" salvation of His people, not all will experience it.
IMO, IME, MOST of His people, including those professing it, the church goers, don't experience it. I'm convinced that few there are that have ever known or have barely tasted the 'joy unspeakable' available to them through the salvation that comes from the gospel.
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RIGHT:thumbs:
Are you referencing a potential 2nd birth?
no.
he isn't.
key phrases/words: most, salvation that comes from the gospel.
A king once commissioned a search for the painter that could paint the most vivid picture of peace.
after selection from hundreds his ministers finally settled on three, out of which they will pick the best.
one was a picture of a calm sea, with views of mountains in the background, foregrounded by branches of trees whose leaves were still.
the second was that of a woman, nursing her baby, while above and behind her were floating white clouds, a brook silently rippling by, and birds chirping in the air.
the third was of a waterfall cascading from a high mountain, with the trees in the jungle, and the higher vegetations obviously being disturbed by strong winds, a dark sky with lightning flashes, and the water at the bottom of the fall churning white from added water to the fall obviously coming from some flooding in the mountains.
the king was made to pick, and the ministers bet among themselves, he would pick the woman nursing her baby.
indeed, the king seemed to tarry at that painting.
but he moved back to the falls, peered very closely, contemplated, and chose that one.
the ministers were flabbergasted.
how could their king find peace in that seemingly tumultuous rendiition of, of all things, peace ?
because the ministers missed what the king saw, behind the cascading waterfalls ending in churning waters fed by torrential rains from a gray sky, the painter included a nest of jungle birds of some sort, full of just hatched chicks (is that what you call little birds?), with the nest precariously built near the edge of a protruding rock but a little farther from the fall, and the little birds being fed by their parent.
do you see the king's logic ?
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salzer mtn
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Correct me if I'm wrong but PB believe in a eternal salvation and a gospel salvation. The eternal salvation is already accomplished for the elect, in Christ Jesus. This eternal salvation is being born again by the Holy Spirit of God which man has nothing in any way to do with. Gospel salvation or time salvation is a on going salvation that the elect is taught by the Spirit through the word of God of the blessed promises, and comfort of the scripture.
re the colored texts: eternal salvation is not regeneration.
today there are those being born, whose names are in the book of life of the Lamb of God, which have been covered by the blood shed at Calvary. They will be born redeemed, they will be born saved.
But because they will be born OF THE SEED OF ADAM, they will be, as yet, unregenerate.
Redemption is Christ's, regeneration is the Spirit's.
In His own time, the Holy Spirit will regenerate (quicken) these elect, independent of any human means.
Not all, however, will hear the gospel, or come under gospel instruction, and therefore, gospel salvation.
Those who do come under the hearing of the gospel, will be drawn by the Father to Christ.
If we read Romans 10 we see that Paul was never saying every Jew is lost, in fact he was saying the opposite, they are zealous for God, but not according to knowledge because what they lack is a confession of Christ as the end of the law, as the promised Messiah, but they are ignorant of these because they have not heard, and how will they hear when no one preaches to them, that faith in Christ might come.
In essence, Paul is saying God has His people among the Jewry.
Quickened, as others are, waiting for the gospel.
salzer mtn
Well-Known Member
So IMO the summary of your post is there is no faith involved at all by the recipient regardless of the way the cals believe faith or the Arminian believe it. Faith is left completely out. Also according to you some will come under gospel salvation and some won't but they are saved anyway so what does it matter.
Eternal salvation requires nothing from the child of God.
Were any of us party to the covenant between the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit in any way, shape, or form ?
Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Have you ever considered this verse in context ? the who, what, where, when, why and how?
Did Christ come to save and redeem to Heaven only those who have faith, will have faith, and had faith in Him ?
if so, then, now, who puts God in a box, we who espouse the doctrine of Grace, not as understood by Calvinists, or the other side who demand that Heaven requires faith of a DEAD sinner BEFORE the blood covers him ??
But, OTOH, it is quite clear that when the quickened sinner comes under the hearing and instruction of the gospel, faith is acquired, and faith is a requisite of GOSPEL or TIMELY salvation (Ephesians 2:1) under which the redeemed or gospelly saved (by grace thru faith are ye saved) for approaches his redeemer and serves his God, for, as the Scripture says, without faith it is impossible to please God.
Everything the redeemed sinner does in time has faith as an active ingredient for him to receive the earthly benefits of eternal life in Christ Jesus.
'.
agreed. but I neither preach nor espouse universalism.
at first, I thought Pine was some heretic theologian, until I realized you were referring to me.
which reveals your abject ignorance of what I believe, and your knee-jerkiness at condemning something you know zero about.
please be a little more knowledgeable before you do your drive-by.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Then how do you explain the following:
Ephesians 2:1-5
1. And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2. Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3. Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
If one is spiritually dead they are spiritually dead!
Can you support that by Scripture?
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Larry, have you been formenting stuff at home again. Ha ha ha ha ha:thumbs:
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