A video of my girls dancing in church...

[tinytim]

Besides, the NT says we are the temple now...

So anything we do to glorify God is done in the temple...
If I would dance on the streets of town to glorify God.. It would be proper worship... (well worship.. If I did it, it wouldn't be proper... lol)

Since my body is the temple, It is worship, even using your limitation to worship in the temple...

The Bible says our Bodies are the temple.... It doesn't say the church building is the temple.

 

[DHK]

No, but he did dance before God...
2 Samuel 6:14
(14) Then David danced before the Lord with all his might; and David was wearing a linen ephod.

That is worship...

But it wasn't in the Temple, the only permissable place of worship for the Jew.
Thus if you want proper application from the OT (if indeed there is any), let such find another venue (like your own home) to dance. The local church (our regular place of worship) is not the place for such activities.

Secondly, you are not taking into context why David was dancing. What was the purpose of dance in the OT. There was only one context for dance. Find that out. Once you find that out, you will see that there will never be any occasion for NT believers to dance.

Thirdly, OT examples really don't apply anyway, do they? Where do you have any NT precedent? You don't. Dance is not mentioned in the NT at all. Dance is carnal, and is always associated with carnal and worldly activities. If that is true (and I believe it is), how can it be done to the glory of God?

 

[gb93433]

The temple wasn't the place of worship throughout all the OT...

Where else did they worship God.

Did Abraham ever worship God?

what about Moses?
Joseph?

Adam?

Noah?

What about Daniel in Babylon?

Why do you limit worship to the temple in the OT.

Many, many people worshiped God without the temple.

When I took a class in seminary of about 60 students the professor asked us to describe the setting of the most worshipful time in our lives. All but about three described somewhere other than a church building.

 

[DHK]

The temple wasn't the place of worship throughout all the OT...

Where else did they worship God.

Did Abraham ever worship God?

what about Moses?
Joseph?

Adam?

Noah?

What about Daniel in Babylon?

Why do you limit worship to the temple in the OT.

Many, many people worshipped God without the temple.

Your post is illogical.
Where did David dance? He didn't dance in the Temple, the OT place of worship at the time of David, the person that we are speaking of.
David didn't live at the time of Abraham, etc., so your objections are moot.

 

[DHK]

When I took a class in seminary of about 60 students the professor asked us to describe the setting of the most worshipful time in our lives. All but about three described somewhere other than a church building.

That is not the point. Every epistle in the NT is either written to a local church or a pastor of a local church. There are also seven letters written to seven pastors of seven local churches in the Book of Revelation. God puts a high premium on the local church. There is no precedent for dancing in the local church.

I couldn't care less if you go out and dance in the middle of the woods and be in tune with nature; or do it in the middle of your home in the privacy of your own household.
The emphasis of the NT is on the local church. The Book of Acts describes three missionary journeys of Paul, on which he started over 100 churches. But he never mentions dance. Not there, not in doctrinal epistles, not in pastoral epistles, not even in the Book of Revelation, where we get a peek into Heaven itself.

 

[tinytim]

oops.. my bad

 

[tinytim]

Your post is illogical.
Where did David dance? He didn't dance in the Temple, the OT place of worship at the time of David, the person that we are speaking of.
David didn't live at the time of Abraham, etc., so your objections are moot.

Neither do we...

Paul says that WE are the temple.. Our bodies..

If you are limiting worship to the temple, then we can worship anytime, anywhere.. which is what Jesus was telling the woman a the well in John 4 when SHE limited worship to one place.

If you are limiting actions done in our churches to only the NT..
WE are right back to piano playing.
The Piano wasn't even invented then.

You can't have it both ways...

Are you regulative or normative? Do you limit stuff done in church to the NT? Or do you give room for other possibilities?

You are being very inconsistent here..

Just so you know, I do not limit God to practices only in the NT.
I love Saturday night sings with quartets...
I love revival services...
I love piano, drums, guitars.. any type of instruments...
I love the dance the way annsnis daughters did... (BTW what a blessing it gave me)
I love Sunday School

If you limit one thing to the NT, you must limit everything you do..
Altar calls? Where in the NT does anyone say "Come to the Altar?"

Where is an altar in a church in the NT...

That is part of our worship service today.

I hope you don't have one in your service if you are limiting all activities done in a worship service to the NT.

Announcements?
And you do have prophets right? for in 1Corinthians, Paul says to have prophecies... and then people to judge whether those prophets are from God.

See, When you limit one activity on the grounds that it can't be found in the NT, it leaves the door open for others like me to ask for NT proof for other activities done in the 21st century...

 

[gb93433]

That is not the point. Every epistle in the NT is either written to a local church or a pastor of a local church. There are also seven letters written to seven pastors of seven local churches in the Book of Revelation. God puts a high premium on the local church. There is no precedent for dancing in the local church.

The emphasis of the NT is not on the church but on Christ. Christ and the gospel was prior to the local church.

The gospels preceded the letters too.

God puts such a high premium on the local church that he will destroy some. However he puts a higher premium on obedient believers who are at least a remnant.

I am still waiting for an answer on how you justify wearing pants from the NT.

I am also waiting for an answer from the NT on how you know what Jesus did and did not do.

Paul was caught up to the third heaven. Have you?

 

[gb93433]

But it wasn't in the Temple, the only permissable place of worship for the Jew.

The Temple did not always exist. Think about what preceded the Temple.

 

[DHK]

The emphasis of the NT is not on the church but on Christ. Christ and the gospel was prior to the local church.

Acts 20:17 And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church.
Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
--Note the importance of the local church. Paul gathered together the elders or pastors of the church at Ephesus. He tells them to feed their church, the church at Ephesus, which God (Christ) purchased with his own blood. Christ puts so great an importance on the local church that he paid for it with his own blood. There is no teaching here of some nebulous universal church. This is local church teaching. The emphasis of the epistles is the local church. And the purpose of the local church is to lift up Christ. You need to get your priorities straight. What happened in the Book of Acts?
1. They that heard the word were saved, and then baptized.
2. Then they were added to the church. In Acts to it was the local church in Jerusalem. It was that specific church.
3. Then they continued in doctrine, fellowship, prayer, and in breaking of bread. They certainly didn't continue in dance.

The gospels preceded the letters too.

The gospels are historical books, as is the Book of Acts. One gives the history of the life of Christ, the other gives the history of acts of the Apostles. But the epistles are doctrinal books from where we get the majority of our doctrine.

God puts such a high premium on the local church that he will destroy some. However he puts a higher premium on obedient believers who are at least a remnant.

All believers who are not a member of a local church are disobedient to Him.
In this day and age of grace God's vehicle of blessing is the local church. It is a God-ordained institution.

Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
It was the church that Christ gave his life for. And the Ephesians, understanding the letter written them would only understand the word ekklesia "assembly" as meaning their assembly. It had no other meaning at that time. Christ died for their church, as he died for every church. Thus the importance of being a member of a church.

I am still waiting for an answer on how you justify wearing pants from the NT.

Since when do I have to justify that, and why. FYI, my wife does not wear pants, and never has. I don't justify women wearing pants, and I am not sure what you are getting at.

I am also waiting for an answer from the NT on how you know what Jesus did and did not do.

What Jesus did and did not do is recorded in the gospels from which we glean some principles. Even more importantly, we gain much teaching about how to live the Christian life in the Epistles--doctrinal books written to local churches or pastors of local churches. We can't confine ourselves just to the gospels.

Paul was caught up to the third heaven. Have you?

Has God ever spoken to you through a burning bush?

 

[DHK]

The Temple did not always exist. Think about what preceded the Temple.

Why don't you do your own homework. Before the Temple was the tabernacle.
As far back as Adam and Eve God had a specific place for worship. Study it out for yourself.

 

[tinytim]

And Paul now says we are the temple.. our bodies.. God is in us.. that is why we worship anywhere...

Why are you ignoring this.. or am I not giving you enough time?

 

[DHK]

And Paul now says we are the temple.. our bodies.. God is in us.. that is why we worship anywhere...

Why are you ignoring this.. or am I not giving you enough time?

Because it is irrelevant.
If you wish to worship God in the temple of your heart, do as Jesus told you to do--go into your closet (bedroom), and when you pray to your Father in secret, then He will reward you openly. I suggest you take that advice. Go into your private bedroom, and dance to the Lord in secret. And your Father will see you in secret, and you will have your answer.

But just don't do it in the local church. There is no precedent for doing such an activity in the local church. The Bible says much about the local church, its order, its purpose, how it is to function, etc. And dance is not a part of it.

 

[Aaron]

That's right it is an opinion...

Hold on. Earlier you said, ". . . anyone that has ever really worshipped God, knows our worship is to done toward HIM."

So in other words, it's only your opinion that your worship is done toward HIM ? (whatever that means).

I'm not interested in opinions, only what can be verified with learned expositions of the Scriptures. You either know dancing to be acceptable, or you don't.

If you know it, then be obedient to the admonition that tells you to prove it. If you don't know it, then you're only blowing hot air.

 

[tinytim]

An opinion that it is to be done in church aaron... not an opinion that it is to be directed to God.. That is a fact.. look what i posted concerning David dancing BEFORE THE LORD... it is clear he danced for God...

YOu intentionally took my words out of context...


You don't have Bible to back up that dancing should not be done in church... therefore yours is just an opinion as well...

IF you have scripture that says we shouldn't dance to God, from the Bible, then post it. And unlike some, I will even accept OT.

 

[annsni]

Worship is a condition of the heart and soul - it is not always just an action. Sing a hymn when you're angry at someone sometime and pre-occupied and see if you are truly worshipping.

I don't care if DHK or Aaron say that dance is not an acceptable form of worship. I've studied it and read the Scriptures and it is. My girls dance before the Lord. What they do is not only acceptable to Him but pleasing in His sight.

My husband is a worship leader - his heart is to worship the Lord God and to lead others to do the same. He spends much time in prayer to be certain that the worship we bring to the Lord is not irreverent, meaningless or man-centered but that it reveals God's glory, His power and His majesty. If some decide that worship should be only A and B, then I will be sure to not come to their church and do otherwise. But because they feel that worship should only be A and B doesn't mean that is what God says.

Psalm 150 says:

Praise the LORD! Praise God in his sanctuary;
praise him in his mighty heavens!
Praise him for his mighty deeds;
praise him according to his excellent greatness!

Praise him with trumpet sound;
praise him with lute and harp!
Praise him with tambourine and dance;
praise him with strings and pipe!
Praise him with sounding cymbals;
praise him with loud clashing cymbals!
Let everything that has breath praise the LORD! Praise the LORD!


Aaron feels that what my daughters are being taught is wrong - they are being taught to praise the Lord God as Psalm 150 says. They have also been taught to kneel before the Lord and they are not afraid in worship to do so. They are not afraid to raise their hands to the mighty God. They do not look for the praises of people but for the glory of God. How many teens have that heart? Not many, I can safely say. I am proud of my girls. Their relationship with their Father brings me absolute great joy. God is pleased, that's what matters. Not that an angry, bitter man is pleased.

 

[Alive in Christ]

"Praise the LORD! Praise God in his sanctuary;
praise him in his mighty heavens!
Praise him for his mighty deeds;
praise him according to his excellent greatness!

Praise him with trumpet sound;
praise him with lute and harp!
Praise him with tambourine and dance;
praise him with strings and pipe!
Praise him with sounding cymbals;
praise him with loud clashing cymbals!
Let everything that has breath praise the LORD! Praise the LORD!"

It is just incredible that christians are capable of rejecting something so clearly allowed in scripture.

Some erroneously reject the "dancing" part. Some erroneously reject the "instruments" part. Some reject both.

Simply amazing. Amazing and so very sad. I feel so sorry for them.


:godisgood:

 

[DHK]

It is just incredible that christians are capable of rejecting something so clearly allowed in scripture.

Some erroneously reject the "dancing" part. Some erroneously reject the "instruments" part. Some reject both.

Simply amazing. Amazing and so very sad. I feel so sorry for them.

Truly it is the other way around. I feel sorry for those who don't take the time to study their Bibles and find out the truth.
The only time David danced before the Lord was in a military context. Psalm 149 and 150 were what we call "military psalms," written in times of victory, after conquests. David danced in the streets when the ark of the covenant was being brought back. Though this was a time of peace it looked back to a time of war, when the ark was lost. It was lost in war, and now was being returned to its proper place--finally!
The song of Miriam.
The song of Deborah.
The accompanying dancing were all in times of war.

The local church of the NT has no such situation today to relate to. These are OT specific situations. If you are going to justify that dancing is relevant today from the psalms then be consistent. Will you also justify the imprecatory psalms written, and pray them for today also?

Psalms 109:6-19 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.
7 When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin.
8 Let his days be few; and let another take his office.
9 Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.
10 Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg: let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places.
11 Let the extortioner catch all that he hath; and let the strangers spoil his labour.
12 Let there be none to extend mercy unto him: neither let there be any to favour his fatherless children.
13 Let his posterity be cut off; and in the generation following let their name be blotted out.
14 Let the iniquity of his fathers be remembered with the LORD; and let not the sin of his mother be blotted out.
15 Let them be before the LORD continually, that he may cut off the memory of them from the earth.
16 Because that he remembered not to shew mercy, but persecuted the poor and needy man, that he might even slay the broken in heart.
17 As he loved cursing, so let it come unto him: as he delighted not in blessing, so let it be far from him.
18 As he clothed himself with cursing like as with his garment, so let it come into his bowels like water, and like oil into his bones.
19 Let it be unto him as the garment which covereth him, and for a girdle wherewith he is girded continually.

Is this the way that you would pray for your neighbor? Why not?
If dance is acceptable because it is in the OT Psalms, then why not prayers as this one that is written in the OT Psalms.
Is it pick and choose time? Why accept the one and reject the other?
Why not be consistent and worship the Lord in both ways? Pray in the same manner also.

 

[gb93433]

Since when do I have to justify that, and why.

Is your hermeneutic like a greased pig or is it consistent? I do not find pants in the NT and yet you continue to suggest that one cannot do something because it is not found in the NT. Appply your hermeneutical principle to wearing pants for men and dresses for women.

What Jesus did and did not do is recorded in the gospels from which we glean some principles.

According to Jn 21:25 what did Jesus do?

Jn 21:25, "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that would be written.

 

[gb93433]

Truly it is the other way around. I feel sorry for those who don't take the time to study their Bibles and find out the truth.
The only time David danced before the Lord was in a military context. Psalm 149 and 150 were what we call "military psalms," written in times of victory, after conquests. David danced in the streets when the ark of the covenant was being brought back. Though this was a time of peace it looked back to a time of war, when the ark was lost. It was lost in war, and now was being returned to its proper place--finally!
The song of Miriam.
The song of Deborah.
The accompanying dancing were all in times of war.

You gave a great example of praising God by dancing.