37818
Well-Known Member
Truth > Changed mind [Repentance] > Belief.
Mark 1:15. ". . . repent ye and believe the gospel. . . ."
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Mark 1:15. ". . . repent ye and believe the gospel. . . ."
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Who can do anything without first believing there is a basis for repenting?
37818
Well-Known Member
As the saying goes, putting the cart before the horse. That is what you think I am doing. There is not a single Bible verse to support the notion that faith precedes repentance.
Mark 1:15, Acts of the Apostles 20:21, Hebrews 6:1, etc.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
I said earlier I thought I understood what you are saying. please correct me if I'm wrong.
In order to repent you must understand that God exists, that you are a sinner, and that God will punish sinners. Am I right? Such belief is not possible unless God regenerates you from your sinful flesh so that you can understand those spiritual truths. Am I right?
Peace to you.
We can get cancer, doesn't mean we are cancer.
All men know who is born again.
John 13
35“By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”
1 John 3
10By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
1 john 4
19We love, because He first loved us. 20If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.
But those who are not born again can't even see the brothers either let alone love them so they don't love God but love the tyrant they mistake for God.
1 John 4
8The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
I agree with all you say, but remember Paul says Faith works by love. “For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.” (Galatians 5:6)
So we must have the Spirit before we can have faith, which agrees with Galatians 5:22
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1 Corinthians 2:14)
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Repent and believe the gospel = turn away from Judaism and believe the gospel instead.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
= turn away from Judaism and believe the gospel instead.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
I always appreciate scripture, but you didn't really say yes or no to whether I was understanding what you are saying.
Peace to you
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
If I understand you, Paul confirms what you say.
37818
Well-Known Member
That is changing one's mind or view on a matter to believe something different. Repentance, a change in mind or view precedes one'a new belief in a truth. ". . . if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; . . ." -- 2 Timothy 2:25.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
These were born again Jews who needed to convert to the New Covenant.
Translation: "They were born again because they believed (no one believes unless they are born again) but they needed to be born again again.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
You cannot see the kingdom of God (the gospel Jesus preached) unless born again .“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” (John 3:3)
One of the big problems with the reformed doctrine is its presupposition hides the context from its adherents. Your use of this passage is a prime example. It gets trotted out as a proof text for an errant doctrine quite often. The trouble is when that is done it is done in isolation of everything that came before it. Paul was making a comparison between worldly wisdom and Godly wisdom. The context in which Paul discusses this is the division in the church which we see in chapter 1. v.14 must be understood in the context of vs. 1:10 thru 1:16. everything after v.16 up to and beyond 2:14.
Paul, in order to admonish the Corinthians, was comparing their worldly thinking with spiritual thinking. That passage nor that verse is not in the context of salvation. In fact he was talking to believers who was obviously using worldly thinking. Another way to put it they were walking in the flesh. Not every thought a Christian thinks is spiritual and when we walk in the flesh even as born again Christians we will have trouble understanding spiritual things.
Be careful how you use that verse.
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Tick tock John Wick
The deep battle you are fighting David is something that theologians call synergism... in short, the belief that we work together with God to accomplish and apply our salvation. But fear not if you studied Martin Luther in any detail you will find out he agreed with you vs the synergist.
Luther would argue with his protege, Philip Melanchthon on this subtlety constantly, with PM siting that even if a sinner cannot contribute anything positive toward his salvation, at least he doesn’t resist Gods Grace when it comes. That “non-resistance” May seem trivial , certainly to small to make much difference, however Luther warned that this “very little” was actually dangerous... and what made it dangerous was it’s subtlety. After all, what is the harm in adding just a bit of human work to the work of God? But Luther recognized that was tantamount to the error of the RCC, which has insisted to this day that the will of man is the decisive factor in salvation.
So I conclude from this that if man contributes any essential part in his salvation, He effectively becomes his own savior and that’s what makes me a monergist
The deep battle you are fighting David is something that theologians call synergism... in short, the belief that we work together with God to accomplish and apply our salvation. But fear not if you studied Martin Luther in any detail you will find out he agreed with you vs the synergist.
Luther would argue with his protege, Philip Melanchthon on this subtlety constantly, with PM siting that even if a sinner cannot contribute anything positive toward his salvation, at least he doesn’t resist Gods Grace when it comes. That “non-resistance” May seem trivial , certainly to small to make much difference, however Luther warned that this “very little” was actually dangerous... and what made it dangerous was it’s subtlety. After all, what is the harm in adding just a bit of human work to the work of God? But Luther recognized that was tantamount to the error of the RCC, which has insisted to this day that the will of man is the decisive factor in salvation.
So I conclude from this that if man contributes any essential part in his salvation, He effectively becomes his own savior and that’s what makes me a monergist
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There is Book with much greater reason for one to draw his conclusion of faith than the words in the book:
(The Doctrines of Grace: Rediscovering the Evangelical Gospel, By James Montgomery Boice, Philip Graham Ryken) which you claim to use to have formed your conclusions of volitional inability thereby rendering the light of the Gospel as powerless due to your acceptance of these men's false doctrines of Predestination.
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