All Israel Will be Saved. Romans 11:26

[tyndale1946]

Greetings SG,
Although this line of thought does not directly answer the original post made by asterisk Tom it has a connection IMO.

Not only that it is of great importance because a new "movement" is afoot called "Hebraic Roots" which is infiltrating churches and taking quite a few into their fold.

They claim that ALL of the law should be written in our hearts and this Law is called The Torah or Ha-Torah which is the Law which Jesus kept, the hundreds of rules (mitzvouth) in the OT (Sabbath keeping, dietary laws, keeping Hebrew "feasts", etc...)

Their mantra being "If we believe in Him we should walk as He walked".

Followed by questions such as "did Yeshua (they won't call Him Jesus) eat pork, was Yeshua a Sabbath keeper or a Sunday keeper, etc, etc...).

Actually there are more than a few of these groups. I have discovered that they are offshoots of the now defunct Garner Ted Armstrong The World Tomorrow assembly.

So, I would say technically - no God did not put this Law into my heart when I personally was saved because there are 613 of these "mitzouth" in the OT and approximately 1/3 of them cannot be kept because there is no temple in Israel and no viable levitical priesthood both of which are required to keep the whole Torah.

In this age we have the indwelling Holy Spirit to guide us in our walk (Romans 8:1, 8:4; actually all of Romans 8 - Galatians 5:6, 25 - actually all of Galatians 5).

Of course we are accused of antinomianism by these hebraists the answer to which is that the Holy Spirit has never led me on a walk into sin.

If and when I sin as a Christian it is because I have ignored His leading and walked after the flesh of which I have been corrected (sometimes the hard way).

Now had I been born again under the Law of Moses then yes my desire would be to keep the multitude of mitzvouth.

My/our desire should be to do His will and keep the commandments of Jesus Christ, not the Law of Moses.

HankD

That's interesting information Hank and I will add these scriptures also from Galatians 3... Brother Glen

Galatians 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[HankD]

Thanks Brother Glen,

My point of course that there being no external Law for us then what is the guiding light - The Spirit of Christ of course.

It is amazing to me that the legalists such as those behind the "Hebraic roots" movement are still with us even after the apostles themselves openly condemned them in Acts Chapter 15.

They answer that they keep the commandments (although none of them do or can) because they are saved and don't keep them in order to be saved but on the other hand they thoroughly condemn us as having the mark of the beast for keeping the Lord's Day rather than the Sabbath.

When I showed them some of the regulations (mitzvouth) which they don't or cannot keep I was maligned and shut out of their face book account.

I was able to show them this passage before I was banished:

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Hopefully this will show them that there is no hope in the law but that it can only condemn. Only Jesus can save.

HankD

 

[percho]

Is this law written in the hearts of the believers?

Love one another.

Can we read the threads of these forums and truly believe that?

 

[HankD]

Is this law written in the hearts of the believers?

Love one another.

Can we read the threads of these forums and truly believe that?

We can, but sometimes we need to do a better job of expressing it that is why Jesus repeated it so many times.

HankD

 

[tyndale1946]

We can, but sometimes we need to do a better job of expressing it that is why Jesus repeated it so many times.HankD

I agree but sometime even though we read it in scripture when we put self ahead of what is written in our hearts and minds and not in practical Christian application we fail... We all walk with feet of clay!... Brother Glen

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

 

[Covenanter]

Is this law written in the hearts of the believers?

Love one another.

Can we read the threads of these forums and truly believe that?

In the hearts? or threads?

Gal. 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.​

If that spiritual evidence is not written in our hearts, we are not believers.

 

[Covenanter]

For the thread subject, we need a Biblical definition of "all Israel."
Is "all Israel" -
every physical descendant of Abraham?
everyone claiming to be a Jew?
citizens of the modern state claiming to be Israel?
all believers in Jesus, regardless of ethnicity?
all Jewish believers in Jesus prior to AD 70 who were delivered before the destruction?
European Jews regardless of ethnicity?
American Jews regardless of ethnicity?
Semitic Jews?
A remnant of 7,000 ?

 

[Jope]

Romans 11 NET
25For I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: A partial hardening has happened to Israel until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion; he will remove ungodliness from Jacob. 27And this is my covenant with them, when I take away their sins.” 28In regard to the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but in regard to election they are dearly loved for the sake of the fathers. 29For the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.
​

This can't be referring to us Christians this day and age because we already have our sins taken away. If this is referring to Christians this day and age, how could Christians be enemies in regard to the gospel to other Christians? What enemy of dispensational theology wants to explain this to me?

 

[Covenanter]

Romans 11 NET
25For I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: A partial hardening has happened to Israel until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion; he will remove ungodliness from Jacob. 27And this is my covenant with them, when I take away their sins.” 28In regard to the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but in regard to election they are dearly loved for the sake of the fathers. 29For the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.
​

This can't be referring to us Christians this day and age because we already have our sins taken away. If this is referring to Christians this day and age, how could Christians be enemies in regard to the gospel to other Christians? What enemy of dispensational theology wants to explain this to me?

Paul is quoting Isaiah 59

20 ‘The Redeemer will come to Zion,
to those in Jacob who repent of their sins,’
declares the Lord.
21 ‘As for me, this is my covenant with them,’ says the Lord. ​

Isaiah writes in the future tense, & Paul quotes in the future tense, but of course the Redeemer, our Lord Jesus Christ, HAS come. The prophecy is not still future, it's fulfilled in & by Jesus.

 

[Yeshua1]

Just a point of clarification. Piper, while a premill, is not a dispensationalist.

And not a full pretierist!

 

[Jope]

Paul is quoting Isaiah 59

20 ‘The Redeemer will come to Zion,
to those in Jacob who repent of their sins,’
declares the Lord.
21 ‘As for me, this is my covenant with them,’ says the Lord. ​

Isaiah writes in the future tense, & Paul quotes in the future tense, but of course the Redeemer, our Lord Jesus Christ, HAS come. The prophecy is not still future, it's fulfilled in & by Jesus.

You mistake my position to be that Christ isn't the fulfiller of this prophecy. I am claiming that Jesus will take away the jews' sins after we're raptured. You also never addressed my actual only question posed in the post. How can a Christian be an enemy to another Christian on the grounds of the gospel?? This is what enemies of dispensational theology have to answer for because their position, inadvertently to their knowledge or not, claims this.


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[Yeshua1]

You mistake my position to be that Christ isn't the fulfiller of this prophecy. I am claiming that Jesus will take away the jews' sins after we're raptured. You also never addressed my actual only question posed in the post. How can a Christian be an enemy to another Christian on the grounds of the gospel??


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How is it that many get to redefine israel as now meaning church, but the NT still does not make that true?

 

[Covenanter]

You mistake my position to be that Christ isn't the fulfiller of this prophecy. I am claiming that Jesus will take away the jews' sins after we're raptured. You also never addressed my actual only question posed in the post. How can a Christian be an enemy to another Christian on the grounds of the gospel?? This is what enemies of dispensational theology have to answer for because their position, inadvertently to their knowledge or not, claims this.

Edited - italics

Of course Christians are not enemies of other Christians, whether Jew or Gentile. It's all in the timing. Paul's "English" is not easy to parse, regardless of translation.

Paul can only mean that unsaved Israel at the time of writing, while the nation still existed are enemies of the Gospel, and that the nation is in the general sense loved because of the promises to the Patriarchs, & many are being saved. (the elect) Notice verse 28 is present tense, not future.

I do NOT consider present day Israel nor present day Jews to be enemies of the Gospel in the same sense. They are a people, several people groups that need the Gospel. They are not specifically enemies, any more than Muslims or Hindus. All nations, people groups, & people of other religions need the Gospel. Persecution is never justified.

 

[Yeshua1]

Of course Christians are not enemies of other Christians, whether Jew or Gentile. It's all in the timing. Paul's "English" is not easy to parse, regardless of translation.

Paul can only mean that unsaved Israel are enemies of the Gospel, and that the nation is in the general sense loved because of the promises to the Patriarchs, & many are being saved. (the elect) Notice verse 28 is present tense, not future.

God used them to allow God to reach the gentiles for Christ, and He will still in the end bring them back, as per same Paul!

 

[kyredneck]

Edited - italics

Of course Christians are not enemies of other Christians, whether Jew or Gentile.

Tell that to the now nearly extinct Palestinian Christians, thanks to the Christian Zionist unconditional support of the Zionists.

 

[Covenanter]

Edited - italics

Of course Christians are not enemies of other Christians, whether Jew or Gentile.

Tell that to the now nearly extinct Palestinian Christians, thanks to the Christian Zionist unconditional support of the Zionists.

How "Christian" is Christian Zionism? That's not to suggest that Christian Zionists are not Christians, but that they are in a de facto "bewitched" situation in having "Israel" in the centre of their thinking, rather than Christ.

They preach the Gospel & worship the triune God, but they maintain that OC prophecy is yet unfulfilled, despite the NC & the perfect fulfilment in & by our Lord Jesus Christ.

However, they have been bewitched by the claimed "literal interpretation" (an oxymoron) of the OC that looks to physical fulfilment of prophecy, rather than spiritual.

They therefore see the presence of non-Jews in the promised land as a violation of the promises, & the oppression of all Palestinians as justified - they shouldn't be there.

 

[kyredneck]

"literal interpretation" (an oxymoron)

....and 'Christian Zionist' isn't?

 

[Covenanter]

....and 'Christian Zionist' isn't?

Of course it is oxymoronic ...

 

[Yeshua1]

How "Christian" is Christian Zionism? That's not to suggest that Christian Zionists are not Christians, but that they are in a de facto "bewitched" situation in having "Israel" in the centre of their thinking, rather than Christ.

They preach the Gospel & worship the triune God, but they maintain that OC prophecy is yet unfulfilled, despite the NC & the perfect fulfilment in & by our Lord Jesus Christ.

However, they have been bewitched by the claimed "literal interpretation" (an oxymoron) of the OC that looks to physical fulfilment of prophecy, rather than spiritual.

They therefore see the presence of non-Jews in the promised land as a violation of the promises, & the oppression of all Palestinians as justified - they shouldn't be there.

So when God gives them their promised land in full, and saves those alive at the Second Coming, you will be judging God?

 

[kyredneck]

So when God gives them their promised land in full

That's a done deal from ancient times:

43 So Jehovah gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
44 And Jehovah gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; Jehovah delivered all their enemies into their hand.
45 There failed not aught of any good thing which Jehovah had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass. Josh 21

And, behold, this day I am going the way of all the earth: and ye know in all your hearts and in all your souls, that not one thing hath failed of all the good things which Jehovah your God spake concerning you; all are come to pass unto you, not one thing hath failed thereof. Josh 23:14

Blessed be Jehovah, that hath given rest unto his people Israel, according to all that he promised: there hath not failed one word of all his good promise, which he promised by Moses his servant. 1 Ki 8:56