Am I in sin?

[Born Again]

Yea....because he will see a person who can actually control himself & still love the Lord.....because the two are not mutually exclusive. If WebDog has lead a person to Christ in a bar, what do you care? If he has had a beer with the guy, and still displayed the heart & mind of a Bible Believing Christian....then who are you to judge!:BangHead:

All I can say is what i said earlier but it will get spun again I'm sure.

If drinking is such a controversial subject (as is obvious by reading any thread here regarding the subject) and causes us to belittle and laugh at one another as brothers and sisters in Christ on these threads, how more so foolish do we appear in the eyes of nonbelievers when we do as they do and act as they do? Shouldn't we be an example to separate ourselves from the world rather than being a part of the world that's just looking for an excuse to justify their behavior?

 

[12strings]

All I can say is what i said earlier but it will get spun again I'm sure.

If drinking is such a controversial subject (as is obvious by reading any thread here regarding the subject) and causes us to belittle and laugh at one another as brothers and sisters in Christ on these threads, how more so foolish do we appear in the eyes of nonbelievers when we do as they do and act as they do? Shouldn't we be an example to separate ourselves from the world rather than being a part of the world that's just looking for an excuse to justify their behavior?

The underlined sections are what give weakness to your statement.

You are automatically assuming either that (a) anything that is controversial should be avoided at all costs, or (b) that "do as they do" is bad in every situation...which it obviously isn't...we drive cars, we have jobs, we go to little-league baseball games, we eat hamburgers.

In this case, the "Do as they do" is partaking of something that is mentioned in scripture numerous times as a blessing from God, but one that is not to be used in excess.

We are to Separate ourselves from the world IN THE WAYS PRESCRIBED IN SCRIPTURE...not in every way we can imagine.

 

[Born Again]

The underlined sections are what give weakness to your statement.

You are automatically assuming either that (a) anything that is controversial should be avoided at all costs, or (b) that "do as they do" is bad in every situation...which it obviously isn't...we drive cars, we have jobs, we go to little-league baseball games, we eat hamburgers.

In this case, the "Do as they do" is partaking of something that is mentioned in scripture numerous times as a blessing from God, but one that is not to be used in excess.

We are to Separate ourselves from the world IN THE WAYS PRESCRIBED IN SCRIPTURE...not in every way we can imagine.

So you're saying it's okay if I partake of the controversial just as long as it's not in excess or forbidden in God's Word while witnessing to a lost person with my Bible in hand? Just want to make sure I'm using the proper witnessing etiquette while trying to save the lost.

 

[Zaac]

If drinking is such a controversial subject (as is obvious by reading any thread here regarding the subject) and causes us to belittle and laugh at one another as brothers and sisters in Christ on these threads, how more so foolish do we appear in the eyes of nonbelievers when we do as they do and act as they do? Shouldn't we be an example to separate ourselves from the world rather than being a part of the world that's just looking for an excuse to justify their behavior?

Exactly. You would think that all Christendom would be running in the opposite direction from this behavior that has caused so much damage.

We are quick to say "we don't want no gay scout leaders cause of what they might influence the kids to do" but we're even quicker to defend our right to drink and influence the same kids to partake of something that leads to more destructive behavior.

 

[webdog]

Be careful not to get burger grease or beer spill on your Bible while witnessing to the lost.

I know, heaven forbid if he saw me as just a regular human being .

 

[webdog]

So you're saying it's okay if I partake of the controversial just as long as it's not in excess or forbidden in God's Word while witnessing to a lost person with my Bible in hand? Just want to make sure I'm using the proper witnessing etiquette while trying to save the lost.

That begs the question, who says its controversial? Not the bible! Im sure Jesus was pretty controversial with the pharisees manmade vices too.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Exactly. You would think that all Christendom would be running in the opposite direction from this behavior that has caused so much damage.

So what exactly is it that you are afraid of that your running away? Did Christ run away from the Tax Collectors, The Harlots, the Pharisees, The Romans? No he did not, he faced them, was criticized for eating & drinking with them, allowing them to wash his feet.

If you run in the opposite direction you will never ever touch the flesh of Christ because it is there residing with the sinful, waiting for someone to tell them about Christ. However you want to run away, you want to sit with the same type of individual that you are, all the time knowing you have been COMMANDED to go out into the world Mark 6:12-13

King James Version (KJV)

12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.

13 And they cast out many devils, and anointed with oil many that were sick, and healed them.

Mark 4:21-23

21 Also He said to them, “Is a lamp brought to be put under a basket or under a bed? Is it not to be set on a lampstand? 22 For there is nothing hidden which will not be revealed, nor has anything been kept secret but that it should come to light. 23 If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear.”

 

[Born Again]

So what exactly is it that you are afraid of that your running away? Did Christ run away from the Tax Collectors, The Harlots, the Pharisees, The Romans? No he did not, he faced them, was criticized for eating & drinking with them, allowing them to wash his feet.

If you run in the opposite direction you will never ever touch the flesh of Christ because it is there residing with the sinful, waiting for someone to tell them about Christ. However you want to run away, you want to sit with the same type of individual that you are, all the time knowing you have been COMMANDED to go out into the world Mark 6:12-13

King James Version (KJV)

12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.

13 And they cast out many devils, and anointed with oil many that were sick, and healed them.

Mark 4:21-23

21 Also He said to them, “Is a lamp brought to be put under a basket or under a bed? Is it not to be set on a lampstand? 22 For there is nothing hidden which will not be revealed, nor has anything been kept secret but that it should come to light. 23 If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear.”

Did Jesus collect tax with the tax collectors? Did Jesus perform sexual favors with the harlots? Did Jesus join the Roman army?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Did Jesus collect tax with the tax collectors? Did Jesus perform sexual favors with the harlots? Did Jesus join the Roman army?

So whats your big problem with drinking....obviously you consider it a sin.

 

[12strings]

So you're saying it's okay if I partake of the controversial just as long as it's not in excess or forbidden in God's Word while witnessing to a lost person with my Bible in hand? Just want to make sure I'm using the proper witnessing etiquette while trying to save the lost.

Taken one part at a time for clarity...

1. It is OK to do things that might be controversial, if they are done in faith, and in obedience to God's word...ie, a preacher might use a "D" word to describe the condemned state of an unrepentant sinner...a Preacher might show kindness to a homosexual, even though he knows most of his parishoners would shun the man...He might tell the homosexual he needs to repent, even though it might cost him a friend...He might eat a Baconator because he knows he is not living a glutonous lifestyle, and God says all foods are to be recieved with thanksgiving. He might see wine in a similar way.

2. Yes, I'm saying that God has told us what sin is...we don't need to add to God's list. He has also specifically told us some things that are blessings and gifts from him...food and "wine", "aged wine", and even "strong drink" are among these.

3. "Having a Bible in my hand" does not automatically make something a sin that wasn't a sin before I picked the bible up.

4. There is not a proper witnessing etiquite. If drinking alcohol is a sin, it is a sin whether you are witnessing or not. If it's not...witnessing doesn't change it. Though If you are witnessing at a AA meeting...probably better leave the beer at home.

That said, I don't drink. I think it's the wisest choice for me at this time.

 

[evangelist6589]

I really need to understand this......What is it with you people? Beer & liquor in general is not in it self sinful. Its the ignoramuses who allow it to control them that use it to alter their minds that are the sinners. I mean is it cultural? Have you been raised to look at beer & liquor as devils brew? My good Lord, Christ drank it? So what is the problem? Just amazing!!!

Wait I am not teaching teetotalism as I myself find no harm in drinking a Mikes Hard lemonade. But Mikes lemonade is only 2.5% alcohol and nothing this warehouse serves is that low. The pastor at my new church has not studied things out as he teaches teetotalism, yet in a conversation with him he was unwilling to look at both sides of the debate, and he was ignorant on the different types of alcoholic drinks and lumps them all one and the same.

 

[evangelist6589]

So then your argument is (since you cannot or will not answer my question) is Jesus was the ONLY Jew who didn't use wine for the Passover? No Jew was even permitted to have yeast anywhere in their dwelling a week before! ONLY alcoholic win would have been allowed. Snap back to reality, go with Gods Word over manmade vices-

Your type is why the op feels the way they do.

I am not a legalistic teetotalist like those in my present church. However I am against Beer. I am only in favor of Mikes Lemonade and some types of wines

http://www.foodandwine.com/articles/8-health-benefits-of-drinking-wine

 

[evangelist6589]

No need to resort to name calling. You live in New Jersey which is very similar to my area of New York - Long Island. Alcoholism is rampant - that is the problem. I love a good beer - and many other drinks but we've chosen to not partake because of our ministry. Is drinking wrong overall? No. I drinking wrong for many? Absolutely. Is NOT drinking wrong? No - not when it's done for the proper reasons.

This man has a negative view of alcohol and it bothers him that he works there. I don't understand how one can work for a company that stands for something that makes him uncomfortable. But that's me.

Bottom line is that this gentleman is uncomfortable with working there - is not happy - and wondering if it's a sin. If he has these feelings - whether or not they are "right" - he needs to deal with that and for now, if he believes it is a sin, it's a sin for him.

So what should I do then? Miss paying my credit cards? No I will work there until I get let go (unemployment) or I find another job. Its hard finding a job when I work till 4:30pm each day.

 

[webdog]

I am not a legalistic teetotalist like those in my present church. However I am against Beer. I am only in favor of Mikes Lemonade and some types of wines

http://www.foodandwine.com/articles/8-health-benefits-of-drinking-wine

Curios as to why? Its not the APV that makes it sinful, its consuming enough to become drunk. The wine Jesus drank quadrupled the 2.5% in a MHL

 

[Zaac]

So what exactly is it that you are afraid of that your running away? Did Christ run away from the Tax Collectors, The Harlots, the Pharisees, The Romans? No he did not, he faced them, was criticized for eating & drinking with them, allowing them to wash his feet.

Again, nice try. Ain't nobody here afraid. And you have no idea what Christ drank with them.

If you run in the opposite direction you will never ever touch the flesh of Christ because it is there residing with the sinful, waiting for someone to tell them about Christ. However you want to run away, you want to sit with the same type of individual that you are, all the time knowing you have been COMMANDED to go out into the world Mark 6:12-13

Sounds like you're just trying to justify YOUR vice onto Christ. Not indulging in things that may cause someone to stumble ain't got a thing to do with anyone running in the opposite direction.

Jesus draws men unto Himself. And as more of HIM, and not our vices are allowed to shine through, people are drawn to it.

And your situation might be different, but the unsaved folks that I speak to like the fact that someone is talking to them who actually appears to not be doing the same things that they are.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Wait I am not teaching teetotalism as I myself find no harm in drinking a Mikes Hard lemonade. But Mikes lemonade is only 2.5% alcohol and nothing this warehouse serves is that low. The pastor at my new church has not studied things out as he teaches teetotalism, yet in a conversation with him he was unwilling to look at both sides of the debate, and he was ignorant on the different types of alcoholic drinks and lumps them all one and the same.

Have him give me a call....I will straighten that dude out :laugh:

In all sincerity, Ive worked with the chronic alcoholic & drug addict for too many years not to know both sides of the story cold. The guy is just putting his head in the sand by not facing the side of the issue that is human frailty. There will always be circumstances where people drink & suffering the consequences.....that will never be completely eradicated. On another note, there will always be those who can handle an occasional alcoholic beverage without any disastrous effects. People could even use it as a form of socialization & relaxation ....even to face to face with the non believer & bring them to Christ......Ive done it & so has Webdog so.....

 

[Arbo]

I am not a legalistic teetotalist like those in my present church. However I am against Beer. I am only in favor of Mikes Lemonade and some types of wines

http://www.foodandwine.com/articles/8-health-benefits-of-drinking-wine

Why are you particularly against beer? Alcohol level? You do know that at 2.5%, two of your lemonade equal the standard ale...

 

[Zaac]

Did Jesus collect tax with the tax collectors? Did Jesus perform sexual favors with the harlots? Did Jesus join the Roman army?

Precisely.:applause:

One might even venture that because they had already assumptively called Him a winebibber, that He probably wouldn't want to do anything that would give the appearance of evil.

 

[Jedi Knight]

Which one/ones would you feel comfortable doing while witnessing and bringing someone to Christ?

Born Again you have some good answers. :wavey:

 

[evangelist6589]

Curios as to why? Its not the APV that makes it sinful, its consuming enough to become drunk. The wine Jesus drank quadrupled the 2.5% in a MHL

What evidence do you have to persuade those that disagree with you whom claim the wine in Jesus's time did not have alcohol?