Am I in sin?

[Zaac]

I'll tell you why, its because of those that frown down on others for not following their man made vices...while shoving their faces full of food and trans fats.

A bunch of hogwash. Ain't nobody said anything about frowning down on anyone. That's just another excuse you're trying to use to justify doing the same things that they do.

I guess making stuff up helps you attempt to make a point.:laugh:

 

[Zaac]

Beg the question much?

:laugh: I don't beg questions for anything.

As stated, nothing to justify when Scripture and not your legalism is followed.

As stated, Scripture speaks to these Nicolaitan liberties.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

This is not a thread to list my ministry endeavors.:flower:

But I certainly don't go out to the lost with a beer in hand. We're to meet them where they are. That doesn't mean to indulge in the same things in which they are indulging.

Most of my going out to the lost is done in countries to which most folks don't want to go.

But I do encounter quite a few lost folks in the church.

You dont know the 1st thing about people do you?

You dont know the 1st thing about Alcoholics & what drives them either, do you? Do you think that they are who they are or what they are because you have a drink or not? Your just showing me that you are so clueless that you "Think" you have the answers .....well thinking isn't knowing & it's apparent you dont know. So quit acting like you do, your fooling no one but yourself.

 

[12strings]

It's the APPEARANCE of evil if you're sitting there with a bottle in your hand.

If drinking wine were forbiden in scripture, you might be right, but it's not...It's described as a blessing from God...even "aged wine" and "strong drink."

Deuteronomy 14:26 - And spend the money for whatever you desire—oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the Lord your God and rejoice, you and your household.

We must stick with scripture. It is not helpful to call something a sin that God doesn't call a sin, but in fact encourages and says is a blessing from Him.

Would we tell the homosexual "I'm gonna do this once and it's okay but you're doing it to the extreme and again and again"?

Well, homosexual acts ARE called a sin, so it's a different issue altogether.

Also, if you are drinking beer ONLY to try to fit in with your unsaved friends...that is not a good reason to do it...I know from 2 years in Boston that it is perfectly fine to say "no thanks" when offered beer...I never had anyone question me about it ONCE.

If you wouldn't openly sit on the front pew of the church and do the same thing in front of everybody, ask yourself why not?

Actually many churches DO walk to the front of the church to partake in real wine at communion...

 

[webdog]

:laugh: I don't beg questions for anything.

probably as about knowledgeable on fallacies as the passover and fermentation :laugh:

As stated, Scripture speaks to these Nicolaitan liberties.

Blinders. Remove them. Called 'biblical liberties' as outlined in Deuteronomy 14:26

Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the Lord your God and rejoice.

As I said, no need to justify something not only approved by God, but ENCOURAGED.

 

[12strings]

That doesn't mean to indulge in the same things in which they are indulging.

Sure it does...you eat food, you indulge in the comforts of heated and air-conditioned buildings...you use a phone...

What you DON'T do is indulge in their SINFUL activities...which no one no this thread is advocating.

 

[webdog]

A bunch of hogwash. Ain't nobody said anything about frowning down on anyone. That's just another excuse you're trying to use to justify doing the same things that they do.

I guess making stuff up helps you attempt to make a point.:laugh:

Who's making stuff up here? Essentially calling me a nicolatian (a heretical sect who's deeds God hated) is actually much worse.

At what point are you going to understand there is no need to justify something that is permissible, encouraged and called a blessing? The third time I've said this...

 

[12strings]

Therefore

“Come out from among them
And be separate, says the Lord.
Do not touch what is unclean,
And I will receive you.”[d]
18 “I will be a Father to you,
And you shall be My sons and daughters,
Says the Lord Almighty.” 2 Cor. 6:17-18

"What God has called clean, do not call common."

 

[Zaac]

You dont know the 1st thing about people do you?

I know what God allows me to know.

You dont know the 1st thing about Alcoholics & what drives them either, do you? Do you think that they are who they are or what they are because you have a drink or not? Your just showing me that you are so clueless that you "Think" you have the answers .....well thinking isn't knowing & it's apparent you dont know. So quit acting like you do, your fooling no one but yourself.

Man hush. I grew up with an alcoholic father and grandfather in the house so I know a little something about alcoholics. You're CONSTANTLY talking a big game but don't know half about me what you seem to think you know.:laugh:

I've never known or heard of an alcoholic set the bottle down because a Christian decided to tell them about Jesus while drinking what they were drinking.

And ultimately the Christian drinking is about the Christian and his relationship with God. Some strive for holiness. Others strive to see how much of a foot they can keep in he world while attempting to lecture folks to not overindulge in the very thing in which they are indulging.

 

[Zaac]

"What God has called clean, do not call common."

You're gonna have to take that up with God. That's HIS word, not mine.:laugh:

 

[Zaac]

Who's making stuff up here? Essentially calling me a nicolatian (a heretical sect who's deeds God hated) is actually much worse.

Right. But it's okay for you to imply that someone is a Pharisee.

At what point are you going to understand there is no need to justify something that is permissible, encouraged and called a blessing? The third time I've said this...

At what point are you gonna recognize that ALL things are permissible, but that doesn't mean that it's beneficial to your witness for Christ?

 

[Zaac]

Frankly I bore of this conversation with a bunch of folks who will again next week be complaining about something to do with homosexuality or abortion while giving tacit approval of heterosexual fornication in your viewing habits and cosigning for government sanctioned executions while you sit back and drink a Budlight.

So please indulge in whatever you wish and give an account to God for the constant hypocrisy coming out of the church that wants to keep one foot in the world while trying to make it look like the other foot is in Christ.

So drink on. Make disciples and teach them to drink so that they too can teach others to drink because we all know that drinking will definitely give them cause to chase after Christ.

 

[Mexdeaf]

So what should I do then? Miss paying my credit cards? No I will work there until I get let go (unemployment) or I find another job. Its hard finding a job when I work till 4:30pm each day.

Well then, boy, you have already made up your mind so why bother us to try to salve your conscience?

Young people today... sigh!

 

[webdog]

Right. But it's okay for you to imply that someone is a Pharisee.



At what point are you gonna recognize that ALL things are permissible, but that doesn't mean that it's beneficial to your witness for Christ?

The pharisees called non sins, sin.

You say it is not beneficial, I know it can, and has been. No different than eating a meal.

 

[webdog]

Frankly I bore of this conversation with a bunch of folks who will again next week be complaining about something to do with homosexuality or abortion while giving tacit approval of heterosexual fornication in your viewing habits and cosigning for government sanctioned executions while you sit back and drink a Budlight.

So please indulge in whatever you wish and give an account to God for the constant hypocrisy coming out of the church that wants to keep one foot in the world while trying to make it look like the other foot is in Christ.

So drink on. Make disciples and teach them to drink so that they too can teach others to drink because we all know that drinking will definitely give them cause to chase after Christ.

...and right back to calling sinful what God does not. YOU will have to give an account for not only yourself, but everyone you have 'discipled' into believing your man made legalism.

 

[Zaac]

The pharisees called non sins, sin.

And the Nicolaitans used their "savedness" as liberty to sin.

You say it is not beneficial, I know it can, and has been. No different than eating a meal.

I didn't say anything wasn't beneficial. I said it doesn't mean it's beneficial just because it's permissible.

You can have sex with someone of the same sex because all things are permissible in that you have the freedom to do whatever you want. That DOES NOT mean doing anything is to the benefit of your witness for Christ.

He also says that He desires our OBEDIENCE over our sacrifice. So Christians need to stop thinking that because they "lead someone to Christ" that it excuses all of the unGodly, unHoly behavior.

God can draw people unto Himself in spite of our disobedience and unholiness.

 

[Zaac]

...and right back to calling sinful what God does not. YOU will have to give an account for not only yourself, but everyone you have 'discipled' into believing your man made legalism.

And right back to misrepresenting what I wrote as you don't see anything in there where I referred to something as a sin. So keep right on turning up your bottles of alcohol while trying to tell folks about a Holy God.

 

[Yeshua1]

He was accused of being a drunkard by folks who didn't know what He was drinking. He was sitting there with a Guinness in His hand while trying to convince them He wasn't drunk.

Nobody has said don't pal around with them.

I pal around with addicts and drunks and homosexuals and Mormons and Muslims. That doesn't mean I am to do the same things that they do or give the impression that I am.

has ANY here stated that in order to be friendly towards prostitutes/drug addicts/alcoholic/etc that we encourage doing what they are doing in order to get along with them?

Do you go to a luncheon for business knowing that beer and wine will be served/

what about invited to weddings where alcohol is being served/ Do you go and keep knocking glasses out of peoples hands?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

has ANY here stated that in order to be friendly towards prostitutes/drug addicts/alcoholic/etc that we encourage doing what they are doing in order to get along with them?

Do you go to a luncheon for business knowing that beer and wine will be served/

what about invited to weddings where alcohol is being served/ Do you go and keep knocking glasses out of peoples hands?

In the day, Monty Python would have payed you good money to write that as a skit....."toast at a wedding except someone is violently apposed to drinking & starts knocking glasses out of peoples hands when they raise them to toast the couple".... FUNNY!!! :laugh:

 

[InTheLight]

If someone has a beer or a Mike's Hard Lemonade they are not being disobedient or unholy.