HeirofSalvation
You can feel however you want to...but you cannot accept the plain truth of romans 3:23/5:12.....all sinned as a completed action in time past...one point in time. Your whining and accusations will never change it.
All sinned...all died in Adam.....you cannot answer to it, your ideas have no place for it.....that is your issue, not mine:wavey:
The argument is "not Mine"...it has been known and understood in the church for a long time. Looks as if you are out of bullets:thumbs::wavey: I could tell when you start throwing rocks toward me:wavey:
The
root
of man’s sinfulness is his corporate identification with Adam’s sin,
for “all have sinned,” v. 23a.
(a)
A more precise translation here reads, “For all sinned,” emphasizing the
aorist tense, which lumps together all of mankind into a single class.
Furthermore, in contrast with the present tense of, “and are falling
short of the glory of God,” there is strong inference here that man as a
corporate race is perceived as having sinned from the beginning with
Adam (cf. 5:12 where “sin” is usedin the same aoristic manner).
1
Have sinned (ἥμαρτον)
Aorist tense: sinned, looking back to a thing definitely past - the historic occurrence of sin.
This reconciliation or atonement is ours in Christ in the same way sin, condemnation, and death became ours in Adam (implied). Hence, Paul uses Adam as a model, type, or a pattern of Christ [v. 14, last part]. The reason why Adam’s sin brought universal death is “because all sinned” in Adam, our father and representative, and not like Adam, our personal sins.
Note: In his commentary on Romans, John Murray gives five reasons why Paul meant in Adam and not like Adam:
Historically, not all die because they sinned like Adam. For example, babies have no personal sins, yet they die.
The use of the aorist tense implies a once-for-all act in the past. Compare this with Romans 3:23 (“all sinned,” i.e., in the past, also in the aorist tense, and “all are coming short of God’s glory” [i.e., sinning personally], in the present continuous tense).
In verses 13 and 14 (immediate context), the people who lived from Adam to Moses were dying (i.e., before God gave mankind His law as a legal code), even though their sins were unlike Adam’s deliberate transgression of a law [Gen. 2:16,17].
In verses 15-18 (unit context) Paul makes it clear that all men are judged, condemned, and die because of Adam’s sin, with no mention of their personal sins.
Paul is using Adam as a pattern or a type of Christ in Romans 5:12-21 [v. 14b]. If we insist that all die because we all sinned personally like Adam; for this analogy to fit Christ, we would have to teach that all live because all have obeyed personally like Christ. Not only is this the very opposite of Paul’s thought, but we would be guilty of making him teach legalism, something he fought against vehemently.
Wesley's Notes
3:23 For all have sinned - In Adam, and in their own persons; by a sinful nature, sinful tempers, and sinful actions. And are fallen short of the glory of God - The supreme end of man; short of his image on earth, and the enjoyment of him in heaven.
The continuous present tense here indicates that man sins on a day by
day basis and not merely occasionally. His sinning is an inevitable result
of sin as a principle. Because he is a child of Adam, he
will sin, though he does so agreeably. Man can only walk along a straight line in a crooked manner; he staggers on and on as if intoxicated, and that being under the influence of sin.
To sin is to act contrary to the will and law of God. Everybody is born into Adam and thus all sinned for when he sinned, for he acted as the representative for all his descendants. Men are not only sinners by nature, but are also sinners by practice and thus continually fall short (see below), in committing sin themselves. Thus there is a universal need for the gospel, which is thankfully mercifully universally available!
The aorist tense here is referred to as "timeless aorist" which gathers up the whole human race for all time into this condemnation (see also A T Robertson). There are no exceptions save Christ Jesus as Paul has made clear in the preceding indictment in (Ro 1:18-3:20) Godet agrees writing that the aorist tense
'transports us to the point of time when the result of human life appears as a completed fact, the hour of judgment."
MacDonald writes that the aorist tense pictures the fact that...
Everybody sinned in Adam; when he sinned, he acted as the representative for all his descendants. But men are not only sinners by nature; they are also sinners by practice.
Leon Morris writes that...
The aorist pictures this as past, but also as a completion. It certainly does not mean that sin belongs wholly in the past, for Paul goes on to a present tense when he says fall short of the glory of God. Elsewhere in Romans the glory is often future (Ro 2:7, 10; 5:2; 8:18, 21). But there is also a present glory, for God “made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ” (2 Cor. 4:6; cf. 2 Cor. 3:18; John 17:22). But this is something Christ produces in believers. Sinners fall short of it. Not only did all sin in the past, but they continually come short of God’s glory. (Ibid)
Vincent writes that the aorist tense means...
looking back to a thing definitely past — the historic occurrence of sin.
Remember that men and women sin because we are sinners by nature. A plum tree bears plums because it is a plum tree. The fruit is the result of its nature. Sin is the fruit of a sinful heart. “The heart is deceitful above all things” (Jer 17:9).
k....just had to get your attention and try and provoke you to make a biblical case for your ideas....have not seen it yet:wavey:
