Are all of God's Ten Commandments still valid?

[BobRyan]

1. Illiterate pygmies do not know not to worship their little images/idols. That is not proof that God did not speak the TEN Commandents or that the Sabbath was not "made for mankind" as Christ said in Mark 2:27, nor is it proof that idols and false gods really are not all that bad.

I think we all see that point clearly.

2. What is not 'moral' is choosing to be at war with the Law of God - according to John in 1John 3:4 "sin IS transgression of the Law"

A few of the many reasons why even the majority of pro-sunday scholarship admits to the Bible fact that the Ten Commandments are included in the moral Law of God.

Many of us who are under the New Covenant with the Law of God written in our hearts - consider that to be "under grace".

Jer 31:31-33 and Heb 8 make that clear.

Which may be another reason why even the majority of pro-sunday scholars admit that the Ten Commandments are included in the moral law of God applicable to all mankind in all ages.

I don't think anyone sees your point at all, not even "foggily."
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

one more time "with feeling" --

Jer 31:31-33 and Heb 8 make that clear.

Which may be another reason why even the majority of pro-sunday scholars admit that the Ten Commandments are included in the moral law of God applicable to all mankind in all ages.

 

[DHK]

one more time "with feeling" --

Jer 31:31-33 and Heb 8 make that clear.

Which may be another reason why even the majority of pro-sunday scholars admit that the Ten Commandments are included in the moral law of God applicable to all mankind in all ages.

You can repeat yourself like a broken record record player (or a scratched cd ) it won't make it any more right. Repetition of a wrong statement is still repetition of a wrong statement. It doesn't all of a sudden turn a lie into a truth. It isn't magic.

You have put yourself under the law. When will you start obeying the other 613 OT laws?

[FONT=&quot]Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.[/FONT]

Grace and the works of the law do not mix, nor will they ever mix. Your are either under one or the other. You cannot have both.
I choose grace. You have made your choice: the Law. Now you must live by it.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

For me I chose grace; I am under grace.
I am not under the Law but grace.

Arrogance claims, I am not under the Law but I am under grace. It is nowhere written in the Law.

But I am carnal, sold under sin. Therefore it is I beseeching grace, Shall I sin because I am a saved sinner? Shall I be above the Law because I am under grace?

Pride ignores it is a pleading of the one shown mercy, that he might not transgress God’s Law and sin.

By grace I became as under the Law, that I might gain more grace. For where sin abounded, GRACE THE MORE ABOUNDED. Hou epleonasen heh hamartia HUPEREPERUSEUSEN HEH CHARIS!

God in his grace, chose me, and chose for me. Therefore even though I am under the Law—for all who are under sin are under the Law for as long as they shall live—, I believe I am saved by grace not to sin, and STILL I PRAY, To do Thy Will, o God!

Now show from within the Scriptures, that Sabbaths’ Feast of Christ the Substance, is not God’s will!

 

[DHK]

Arrogance claims, I am not under the Law but I am under grace. It is nowhere written in the Law.

Of course it is not written in the Law. We are not under the law. Jesus nailed the law to the cross.

[FONT=&quot]Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.[/FONT]

The Law is no more. We are under grace.
There is no command in the NT to keep the Sabbath. If there were you would be able to point to one. But you can't.

But I am carnal, sold under sin. Therefore it is I beseeching grace, Shall I sin because I am a saved sinner? Shall I be above the Law because I am under grace?

That points to the sinfulness of man. You are very sinful, and the law shows you that. But the law cannot save you; only Christ can save you, and that is grace.

Pride ignores it is a pleading of the one shown mercy, that he might not transgress God’s Law and sin.

You are a transgressor of the law. You transgress the law of God every day. How many of the 613 commands of the OT did you keep or not keep. Every day you break the law. No man can keep the law. That is why Christ, in His grace died--to deliver us from the consequences of the law.

By grace I became as under the Law, that I might gain more grace. For where sin abounded, GRACE THE MORE ABOUNDED. Hou epleonasen heh hamartia HUPEREPERUSEUSEN HEH CHARIS!

NO! By grace you were delivered from the consequences of the law. For by the law comes death.

God in his grace, chose me, and chose for me. Therefore even though I am under the Law—for all who are under sin are under the Law for as long as they shall live—, I believe I am saved by grace not to sin, and STILL I PRAY, To do Thy Will, o God!

If you are under grace you are not under law.
If you are under law you are not under grace.
Which do you choose? Grace or law? You cannot have both!


[FONT=&quot]Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.[/FONT]

Now show from within the Scriptures, that Sabbaths’ Feast of Christ the Substance, is not God’s will!

[FONT=&quot]Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.[/FONT]

Give one command in the NT where a Gentile believer is obliged to keep the Sabbath, just one! Can you do it?
[/QUOTE]

 

[BobRyan]

"Do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! in fact we establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31.

What about the lost ?? Well in Rom 8:5-9 we are told that the lost "do not submit to the Law of God - neither indeed CAN they".

So Paul says in 1Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" when he contrasts the moral law of God with the ceremonial law.

Is it any wonder that the New Covenant of Heb 8 and Jer 31:31-33 includes the promise to "write My Laws on their heart and on their mind"

Is it any wonder that even the majority of pro-sunday scholarship has figured out that the Bible declares the Ten Commandments to be included in the moral law of God binding on all mankind from Eden to this very day.

==================================
A small list of pro-sunday scholarship affirming 7 of the 7 points listed in the OP

"Baptist Confession of Faith"
"Westminster Confession of Faith"
C.H. Spurgeon
Andy Stanley
Matthew Henry
[FONT=&quot]Jamieson, Fausset, Brown[/FONT]
R.C Sproul
"D.L. Moody"
"Dies Domini"
and many others

 

[PreachTony]

The Law is no more. We are under grace.
There is no command in the NT to keep the Sabbath. If there were you would be able to point to one. But you can't.

Consider these words from Jesus:

35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

To me, Jesus is saying to this "lawyer" that loving God with the entirety or your being, and loving your neighbor as you love yourself, encompass the law and the prophets. But simply loving God and your neighbor doesn't create within you a desire to worship only on a set date. Nor does it create within you a desire to follow certain dietary laws, or commit specific sacrifices for specific reasons. Why not? Because, in essence, it supersedes the law.

It was impossible for man to fulfill the law, so Jesus came and did just that, fulfilling the law and removing us from being punishable under the law by extending to us Grace. If we are not punishable under the law, then why would you try to enforce the commandments of the law on anyone? Why attempt to enforce worship on a specific day, when the Bible tells us that this is the day the Lord has made... What does it matter if you worship on Saturday or Sunday? You should be worshiping and thanking God every day of the week, because everyday you wake up is the day that the Lord has made for you.

 

[BobRyan]

It was impossible for man to fulfill the law, so Jesus came and did just that, fulfilling the law and removing us from being punishable under the law by extending to us Grace. If we are not punishable under the law, then why would you try to enforce the commandments of the law on anyone? Why attempt to enforce worship on a specific day, when the Bible tells us that this is the day the Lord has made... What does it matter if you worship on Saturday or Sunday? You should be worshiping and thanking God every day of the week, because everyday you wake up is the day that the Lord has made for you.

You are correct that both Romans 3 and Gal 3 present the moral law of God still binding on all mankind - and showing that all are sinners - thus all "still" need to accept the Gospel solution to that problem. If that Law did not exist - they would no have that need of the Gospel.

1. The Bible teaching that "this is the day the Lord has made" is in the OT - the NT simply repeats the same doctrinal truth already true in the OT.

2. It did not delete the 4th commandment in the OT - when it was written in Ps 118:24 - and it does not delete the 4th commandment when it is quoted again in the NT.

As Matthew Henry admits the "Sabbath made for mankind" in Gen 2:1-3 - during Creation week.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[DHK]

"Do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! in fact we establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31.

Establish the law of God, for what purpose?
8 verses earlier (3:23), Paul had said: "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." The law demonstrated that man was a sinner and fell far short of God's glory. He missed the mark of God's holiness every time. That is what the law of God had established.
Furthermore, just two-three verses later (no chapter divisions in the original), Paul says:
[FONT=&quot]Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.[/FONT]
--The Law, any law or work, could not justify Abraham.
Abraham was justified by faith, and faith alone. The Sabbath didn't justify Abraham; he was justified by faith alone.

What about the lost ?? Well in Rom 8:5-9 we are told that the lost "do not submit to the Law of God - neither indeed CAN they".

Romans 8 starts off this way:
[FONT=&quot]Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, [/FONT]
--The chapter is written "to those that are in Christ Jesus" not to the unsaved.
This passage is totally irrelevant. The law of God doesn't save.
Breaking the speed limit will demonstrate that you are a law-breaker.
Keeping the speed limit will not save you, not even from accidents, it will only increase your odds from avoiding an accident.
But with God, Salvation is through Christ and Christ alone. Even if you could obey all 613 OT laws perfectly throughout all your life, they still couldn't save you. Salvation is through Christ alone, and faith in his work. It is His work that saves us.

So Paul says in 1Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" when he contrasts the moral law of God with the ceremonial law.

What foolishness to keep quoting this verse out of context; a verse that speaks marriage and remaining single, and not of the law at all. You butcher the word, not rightly divide it.

Is it any wonder that the New Covenant of Heb 8 and Jer 31:31-33 includes the promise to "write My Laws on their heart and on their mind"

Jeremiah was written to Israel.
The Book of Hebrews was written to Jewish believers.
Is it any wonder you use these books. God's laws are written on the hearts of mankind, no doubt. But that doesn't include the Sabbath Day. That isn't part of the moral law.

Is it any wonder that even the majority of pro-sunday scholarship has figured out that the Bible declares the Ten Commandments to be included in the moral law of God binding on all mankind from Eden to this very day.

Tell me what book and chapter of the Bible I can find their names in?

A small list of pro-sunday scholarship affirming 7 of the 7 points listed in the OP

"Baptist Confession of Faith"
"Westminster Confession of Faith"
C.H. Spurgeon
Andy Stanley
Matthew Henry
[FONT=&quot]Jamieson, Fausset, Brown[/FONT]
R.C Sproul
"D.L. Moody"
"Dies Domini"
and many others

And what Book of the Bible are they in?
The Book of Spurgeon: 4:3. Is that it? Have you added to your Bible?

 

[BobRyan]

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHK
I don't think anyone sees your point at all, not even "foggily."

one more time "with feeling" --

Jer 31:31-33 and Heb 8 make that clear.

Which may be another reason why even the majority of pro-sunday scholars admit that the Ten Commandments are included in the moral law of God applicable to all mankind in all ages.

==================================
A small list of pro-sunday scholarship affirming 7 of the 7 points listed in the OP

"Baptist Confession of Faith"
"Westminster Confession of Faith"
C.H. Spurgeon
Andy Stanley
Matthew Henry
[FONT=&quot]Jamieson, Fausset, Brown[/FONT]
R.C Sproul
"D.L. Moody"
"Dies Domini"

Tell me what book and chapter of the Bible I can find their names in?


And what Book of the Bible are they in?
The Book of Spurgeon: 4:3. Is that it? Have you added to your Bible?

when I say "the majority of even pro-sunday scholarship" it is to address your first claim listed at the top of this post.

I did not claim that these people are Bible writers.

But I do claim that the Bible texts listed in the OP make the case for God's Ten Commandments.

 

[BobRyan]

"Do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! in fact we establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31.

What about the lost ?? Well in Rom 8:5-9 we are told that the lost "do not submit to the Law of God - neither indeed CAN they".

So Paul says in 1Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" when he contrasts the moral law of God with the ceremonial law.

Is it any wonder that the New Covenant of Heb 8 and Jer 31:31-33 includes the promise to "write My Laws on their heart and on their mind"

Is it any wonder that even the majority of pro-sunday scholarship has figured out that the Bible declares the Ten Commandments to be included in the moral law of God binding on all mankind from Eden to this very day.

==================================
A small list of pro-sunday scholarship affirming 7 of the 7 points listed in the OP

"Baptist Confession of Faith"
"Westminster Confession of Faith"
C.H. Spurgeon
Andy Stanley
Matthew Henry
[FONT=&quot]Jamieson, Fausset, Brown[/FONT]
R.C Sproul
"D.L. Moody"
"Dies Domini"
and many others

So then regarding

"Do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! in fact we establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31.

What about the lost ?? Well in Rom 8:5-9 we are told that the lost "do not submit to the Law of God - neither indeed CAN they".

So Paul says in 1Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" when he contrasts the moral law of God with the ceremonial law.

Establish the law of God, for what purpose?
8 verses earlier (3:23), Paul had said: "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." The law demonstrated that man was a sinner and fell far short of God's glory. He missed the mark of God's holiness every time. That is what the law of God had established.

You are quoting from Romans 3 - and it says that same law exists today - condemning all the world as sinners. The moral law of God - the TEN Commandments.

It then says that the saints "establish the Law of God" instead of making it void by our faith.

By contrast as noted above in Rom 8:5-8 the lost do not submit to it and indeed "can not".

This is not a claim to being "justified by works" as the Baptist Confession of Faith rightly points out when affirming the TEN Commandments at the continued still-valid moral law of God.

Furthermore, just two-three verses later (no chapter divisions in the original), Paul says:
[FONT=&quot]Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.[/FONT]
--The Law, any law or work, could not justify Abraham.
Abraham was justified by faith, and faith alone.

And so also David, and Samuel and Elijah and Enoch - and they kept the 4th commandment - because as Paul points out in Rom 3:31 faith "establishes" the Law of God - instead of being "at war with it."

Romans 8 starts off this way:
[FONT=&quot]Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, [/FONT]
--The chapter is written "to those that are in Christ Jesus" not to the unsaved.

Until you get to the contrast between saved and lost in vs 4-9 -- those "at war with God" vs those who are in harmony with Him.

Rom 8

4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,



8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

If you are under grace you are not under law.

The Law is ALL the Scriptures, to me. I don't know what the Scriptures are to you --- 613 nonsenses the Jews supplied you with?

How about a bit of originality from you, DHK? How many times have you resorted to the JEWS' 613 laws nonsense?

You cannot quote <<<If you are under grace you are not under law>>> anywhere in the Scriptures. You have to PERVERT Romans 6:15 to allege this LIE, <<<If you are under grace you are not under law.>>>

You remind me of the Law in 1 Moses 3:1-5.

Does the JEWS' 613 'laws' include 1 Moses 3:1-5?

You should heed this Law as well, DHK!

Or do you believe grace also pardons it?

 

[DHK]

one more time "with feeling" --

Jer 31:31-33 and Heb 8 make that clear.

Which may be another reason why even the majority of pro-sunday scholars admit that the Ten Commandments are included in the moral law of God applicable to all mankind in all ages.

I pity you. If I went by my feelings I wouldn't get out of bed in the morning.
No doubt, my life would be "an emotional" wreck. If one lets their emotions control their lives who knows where they will end up?
The Scriptures you quote, you quote with "feeling," and out of their context. So what.

A small list of pro-sunday scholarship affirming 7 of the 7 points listed in the OP

"Baptist Confession of Faith"
"Westminster Confession of Faith"
C.H. Spurgeon
Andy Stanley
Matthew Henry
[FONT=&quot]Jamieson, Fausset, Brown[/FONT]
R.C Sproul
"D.L. Moody"
"Dies Domini"

when I say "the majority of even pro-sunday scholarship" it is to address your first claim listed at the top of this post.

I did not claim that these people are Bible writers.

But I do claim that the Bible texts listed in the OP make the case for God's Ten Commandments.

These have no relevance to me.
I have a book. In fact it is 66 books written by 40 different authors over a period of about 1500 years united together by the same theme--redemption through Christ. It is the only book I need. It inspired of God. The books that you present to me are man's works; the book I present to you is God's works. Why should I consult the work of man when I have the work of God to consult? You tell me!
Only a fool would make that choice.

Plus the fact that most people can see through your MO. You want to justify the writings of the author and founder of a cult you belong to, the author being Ellen G. White, a false prophetess. Everyone of the men you listed have verbally and in writing have distanced themselves from her writings and the SDA position. So what do you hope to accomplish? Zilch.

 

[DHK]

The Law is ALL the Scriptures, to me. I don't know what the Scriptures are to you --- 613 nonsenses the Jews supplied you with?

ALL the Law means ALL the law.
First here is what Paul wrote:

[FONT=&quot]Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.[/FONT]
--If you don't keep all the law, from birth to life, all the time, perfectly, you are cursed. If you break only one law one time you are cursed. That means just one lie in your entire life, you are cursed--one sin, one transgression and you are cursed.

Some examples of the laws of God:

[FONT=&quot]Deuteronomy 22:11 Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woollen and linen together.[/FONT]
--Do you wear clothing made from all one cloth. Are you this moment wearing all wool from head to foot, or all cotton, etc.
Or are you wearing some mixed fabrics? Part cotton, part polyester or wool. Are your socks made of the same material as your undershirt, as your dress shirt, etc.
Are you sure you are keeping the law?

How about a bit of originality from you, DHK? How many times have you resorted to the JEWS' 613 laws nonsense?

I am not under the law: I am under grace.

You cannot quote <<<If you are under grace you are not under law>>> anywhere in the Scriptures. You have to PERVERT Romans 6:15 to allege this LIE, <<<If you are under grace you are not under law.>>>

Nonsense.

[FONT=&quot]Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
--The ordinance of the Sabbath or Sabbath keeping, along with the other Jewish laws have been nailed to the cross.

So have all my sins.

Horatio Spafford wrote:

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]When peace like a river, attendeth my way,
When sorrows like sea billows roll;
Whatever my lot, Thou hast taught me to know,a
It is well, it is well, with my soul.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]My sin, oh, the bliss of this glorious thought!
My sin, not in part but the whole,
Is nailed to the cross, and I bear it no more,
Praise the Lord, praise the Lord, O my soul!

He knew he was under grace and not the law. [/FONT]

Or do you believe grace also pardons it?

As Spafford knew and the Bible teaches, the grace of God forgives us all our sin. There is no sin too great that our God cannot forgive.
We do not live under the law, but under grace.

There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus.

 

[BobRyan]

I responded to your factless claim that nobody agrees with the position taken regarding the continued authority of the Ten Commandments as follows

one more time "with feeling" --

Jer 31:31-33 and Heb 8 make that clear.

Which may be another reason why even the majority of pro-sunday scholars admit that the Ten Commandments are included in the moral law of God applicable to all mankind in all ages.

==================================
A small list of pro-sunday scholarship affirming 7 of the 7 points listed in the OP

"Baptist Confession of Faith"
"Westminster Confession of Faith"
C.H. Spurgeon
Andy Stanley
Matthew Henry
[FONT=&quot]Jamieson, Fausset, Brown[/FONT]
R.C Sproul
"D.L. Moody"
"Dies Domini"



when I say "the majority of even pro-sunday scholarship" it is to address your first claim listed at the top of this post.

I did not claim that these people are Bible writers.

But I do claim that the Bible texts listed in the OP make the case for God's Ten Commandments.

I pointed to these texts --

=================================

Bible texts both NT and OT about God's Commandments - Showing that the TEN Commandments are assigned the title "in scripture" as being "Commandments of God" -- and as also being "The Word of God"

10 Commandments are –
“Commandments of God” Neh 10:29
“Law of God” Neh 10:29
“Word of God” Mark 7:13
“Commandment of God” Mark 7:6-13
NT “Scripture” James 2:8
NT “Law” – James 2:9-11
NT Commandments Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Note that in 1John 5 - John contrasts "LOVE", to the Commandments of God. He does not say "By this we know that we Love God -- if we Love God".

Rather John points to obedience to the WORD of God "the Commandments of God" as the sign that we truly to LOVE God. Being at war against his Word is not such a great sign of "loving God" as some had perhaps imagined.

1 John 5
"Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.
2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:1-3

================================================== ========
Paul affirms the Ten Commandments (see point 5 below) AND He never claims that "if I did not write it -- it is not scripture for us today" -- as one or two have imagined for us.

1. Paul never commands gentiles to "Love God WITH ALL your heart".
2. Paul never commands gentiles "not to take God's name in vain"
3. Paul never commands gentiles to ignore the writings of Moses.
4. Paul DOES tell gentiles that Moses' writings are still authoritative scripture in 1Cor 9:8-9 and 1Tim 5:18 and binding as being "Law" and as being "scripture".
5. Paul quotes from Moses and the TEN Commandments Eph 6:2. Full 5th commandment
6. Paul DOES teach that there remains therefore a "Sabbath rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4.
7. Paul DOES tell gentiles that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:19
8. Paul does tell gentiles "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be justifIED... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind" Rom 2:13-16
9. Paul DOES ask that gentiles consider the doctrine of LAW "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31
10. Paul DOES tell gentiles that it is only the lost who will "not subject themselves to the LAw of God neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:6-8
11. Paul DOES tell gentiles that "The Law" is in fact "The LAW of Moses" and is to be used for testing doctrine 1Cor 9:8-9
12. Paul DOES tell gentiles that the OT text is to be used for Doctrine 2Tim 3:16

These have no relevance to me.

I have a book. In fact it is 66 books written by 40 different authors over a period of about 1500 years united together by the same theme--redemption through Christ.

If you did value it to a certain degree you would not be so quick to dismiss the texts that we find in it.

"Give me the Bible AND the words IN the Bible" I always say.

Posting rant after rant as you are choosing to do instead of dealing with the points raised -- is not the compelling bible-based solution one generally expects outside of the Catholic church.

I doubt that even you would be compelled by such a strategy if it were used to oppose the texts you recommend on a given subject.

I think we both know that is true.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[DHK]

Posting rant after rant as you are choosing to do instead of dealing with the points raised -- is not the compelling bible-based solution one generally expects outside of the Catholic church.

I doubt that even you would be compelled by such a strategy if it were used to oppose the texts you recommend on a given subject.

I think we both know that is true.

in Christ,

Bob

What rant? All you do, like a typical J.W. or any other cult, is deflect the subject at hand. I gave you a challenge:
There is no command in the NT anywhere that obligates the Gentile believer to honor or keep the Sabbath. If there was you would be able to provide that evidence--chapter and verse. But you cannot.

What you provide is names of people who worship on Sunday--a red herring.
You cannot provide any Scriptural evidence that the Sabbath is for today; that we are commanded to keep the Sabbath. There is none.
If you could you would.

 

[Getting it Right]

Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross--The ordinance of the Sabbath or Sabbath keeping, along with the other Jewish laws have been nailed to the cross. So have all my sins.

"My sin, oh, the bliss of this glorious thought!
My sin, not in part but the whole,
Is nailed to the cross, and I bear it no more,
Praise the Lord, praise the Lord, O my soul!"

There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus.

Breathtaking. raying:

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Give one command in the NT where a Gentile believer is obliged to keep the Sabbath, just one! Can you do it?

GE:
I have told you MANY times it is the LEGALIST’S command to God; not the NT believer’s.

I have told you MANY times the New Testament has several <commands> where CHRISTIANS ARE SUPPOSED to believe the Sabbath.

I have told you MANY times no Gentile UNBELIEVERS are ever <commanded> concerning ANYTHING with regard to Christ the Sybstance of.

NO! By grace you were delivered from the consequences of the law. For by the law comes death.

GE:
Typical the difference between <<I chose>> and being chosen.

DHK and BobRyan are of the same school of thought. But watch them refusing to admit it.

And by the way, <death comes> BY SIN; not <<by the law>>. And: <By grace you were delivered from the consequences of> SIN; not <<from the consequences of the law.>>


"The Law was added so that sin may abound" : so that, "where sin abounded, GRACE THE MORE ABOUNDED.

Which means Grace abounded by the Law.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Now you want to take away that which whereby grace abounded so that grace won’t and don’t and cannot abound in your view.

But regard the Word-Law of God THE ONLY COMMAND of God EVER – Old as well as NT – and solve every possible and impossible difficulty and or incomprehensibility.

“Christ is my every need…” I remember still the Seventh-day Adventists used to sing. Today still He meets my every need of Law. “Christ the Substance of Sabbaths’ Feast … (my) reward … the Nourishment ministered through joints and bands HOLDING TO THE HEAD.”

DHK, please quote us something similar for your Sunday-sacredness? It’s the SAME QUESTION I always confront the SDAs with for their Sabbath-sacredness.

 

[BobRyan]

Bible texts both NT and OT about God's Commandments - Showing that the TEN Commandments are assigned the title "in scripture" as being "Commandments of God" -- and as also being "The Word of God"

10 Commandments are –
“Commandments of God” Neh 10:29
“Law of God” Neh 10:29
“Word of God” Mark 7:13
“Commandment of God” Mark 7:6-13
NT “Scripture” James 2:8
NT “Law” – James 2:9-11
NT Commandments Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Note that in 1John 5 - John contrasts "LOVE", to the Commandments of God. He does not say "By this we know that we Love God -- if we Love God".

Rather John points to obedience to the WORD of God "the Commandments of God" as the sign that we truly to LOVE God. Being at war against his Word is not such a great sign of "loving God" as some had perhaps imagined.

1 John 5
"Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.
2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:1-3

================================================== ========
Paul affirms the Ten Commandments (see point 5 below) AND He never claims that "if I did not write it -- it is not scripture for us today" -- as one or two have imagined for us.

1. Paul never commands gentiles to "Love God WITH ALL your heart".
2. Paul never commands gentiles "not to take God's name in vain"
3. Paul never commands gentiles to ignore the writings of Moses.
4. Paul DOES tell gentiles that Moses' writings are still authoritative scripture in 1Cor 9:8-9 and 1Tim 5:18 and binding as being "Law" and as being "scripture".
5. Paul quotes from Moses and the TEN Commandments Eph 6:2. Full 5th commandment
6. Paul DOES teach that there remains therefore a "Sabbath rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4.
7. Paul DOES tell gentiles that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:19
8. Paul does tell gentiles "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be justifIED... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind" Rom 2:13-16
9. Paul DOES ask that gentiles consider the doctrine of LAW "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31
10. Paul DOES tell gentiles that it is only the lost who will "not subject themselves to the LAw of God neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:6-8
11. Paul DOES tell gentiles that "The Law" is in fact "The LAW of Moses" and is to be used for testing doctrine 1Cor 9:8-9
12. Paul DOES tell gentiles that the OT text is to be used for Doctrine 2Tim 3:16

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHK

These have no relevance to me.

What you provide is names of people who worship on Sunday--a red herring. .

I do believe that this is how you look at the discussion so far.

Clearly you are overlooking the details posted.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

What rant? All you do, like a typical J.W. or any other cult, <obligatory pontifical rant deleted here>

I gave you a challenge:
There is no command in the NT anywhere that obligates the Gentile believer to honor or keep the Sabbath.,/quote>

NT:

Heb 4 - "There REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God"
1Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
Mark 2:27 "the SABBATH was MADE for mankind"
Rev 14:12 the saints "KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus".
Rev 14:7 "worship Him who made the heavens and the earth and the springs of water"
James 2: 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.”

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

2Tim 3:16 "ALL scripture is given by inspiration from God AND IS to be used for doctrine, reproof and correction..."

OT:
Ex 20:11 "For in SIX days the Lord MADE the heavens and the earth the seas and all ...THEN He blessed the Sabbath day and made it Holy"
Is 66:23 regarding the NT New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to bow down and worship"

Is 56 - OT application of the Sabbath to GENTILES (never was just for Jews)


These points are soooo incredibly obvious that even the majority of pro-sunday scholarship admits to the fact that the Sabbath commandment was given to mankind in Eden, and that all TEN commandments are included in God's moral law written on the heart and mind under the NEW Covenant.

Of course the RCC has a concept of "natural law" where the worship of idols and the observance of Sabbath is "said" to be outside that 'natural law'.

But even they admit that the Decalogue is for all mankind.

in Christ,

Bob