Featured Are all of God's Ten Commandments still valid?

If you are going to make a false accusation like that - you should at least dress it up a bit. Point to the 7 points and which one you think is incorrect in my claim.

Simply dancing around it - and then labeling it with a false accusation is not as compelling for the objective unbiased reader as you may have first imagined.



If you have a point - pick one in that list and prove that your accusation has substance.

 

Quite to the contrary as you and I both know - you could post that stuff all day long on "Club Adventist" just as you do here - claiming that you are not SDA at all.

And they would not block you from doing so --

I think adding those inconvenient facts to your complaint "makes a difference" because for many readers "details matter".

Here again - I think both you and I know this is true.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Now and then you say something I find to be true.

That is one of those times.

Is this the point were we are all supposed to "imagine" that I said "the following pro-sunday groups are really SDA or pro-SDA"???

Is it your claim that you can simply make stuff up and it is supposed to be believed??

I don't find that to be a compelling form of debate. You are welcome to if it that is truly all you have.

in Christ,

Bob

 

here is the "actual" claim made in the OP


Here is an example of claims made by the pro-Sunday sources - and 6 of the 7 are actually correct according to the Bible!.


Yes that is right - 6 of the 7 are actually common ground between Sabbath keeping and Sunday keeping Christians.


1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross.

I agree with 6 out of 7 as listed above - and yet many who post against God's TEN commandments object to all of the points listed above. And sometimes they will even go on to complain that so many of the points above are in agreement with my position and opposed to the war-against-the-Ten-Commandments position.

==============================

Even have it numbered for those who find "details" of the discussion to be illusive in their posts.

How "odd" that in all the complaining the false accusations do their level best to avoid the details in the actual OP.

How odd indeed.

in Christ,

Bob

 

I give an example of two pro-sunday groups - one (the majority) that affirms all 7 points listed.

And the other (might be yours) that opposes all 7 points that they affirm.

I affirm 6 of their 7 points - not all 7.

But I don't oppose all 7 points -- or I would be in your camp -- and I am not...

Obviously.

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Interesting that you choose to take the one point in their 7 point list - where I differ with them - and you choose to bravely "also differ with them".

Was that intended as some sort of evidence against the OP????

If so - I find your logic illusive just then.

The texts I provide demonstrate that -- obviously.

But here at least you do show that you fully oppose all 7 points affirmed be the majority of even pro-sunday scholarship.

not just the 6 of those seven that the SDAs also affirm.

the OP does not claim that your group and mine would agree on all 7 points ... in fact the OP predicts your group and mine would agree on at most the 1 point you have mentioned.

The OP does not claim that your group that denies all 7 points would agree with the majority of even even pro-Sunday scholarship and your post affirms that point as well - you do not agree with them.

you cannot blame your differences with them on me. they flatly reject your views on 6 of those 7 points. obviously.

So then - this part of the OP is checking out pretty much as predicted.

Now for the 2nd half of your post.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Here is a perfect example of those 6 points -- (and perhaps even all 7) being affirmed.

I don't believe either D.L. Moody or C.H. Spurgeon were SDA - yet they could honestly admit to some Bible details that some here claim only SDAs could know about.

For example --

BY THE
DWIGHT L. MOODY​

The Ten Commandments:
Exodus 20:2-17 ​

.
The Fourth Commandment

​

Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.​

[FONT=&quot]THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27) [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was[/FONT][FONT=&quot]- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; [/FONT] __________________


Now let's compare that to the statement in the OP

Here is an example of claims made by the pro-Sunday sources - and 6 of the 7 are actually correct according to the Bible!.


Yes that is right - 6 of the 7 are actually common ground between Sabbath keeping and Sunday keeping Christians.


1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross.

I agree with 6 out of 7 as listed above - and yet many who post against God's TEN commandments object to all of the points listed above. And sometimes they will even go on to complain that so many of the points above are in agreement with my position and opposed to the war-against-the-Ten-Commandments position.

 

They all affirm that all TEN of the Ten commandments are included in the moral law of God that is binding on all mankind - even the saints from the days of Adam to this very day.

That is not an "SDA" statement - it is their own.

Why do they insist on this? Maybe it is because they know that in Jer 31:31-33 "The LAW of God is written on the heart" under the new Covenant and that this Law is the one that Jeremiah knew about - the one his contemporary readers knew about.

The Sabbath was "made for mankind - not mankind made for the Sabbath" according to Christ in Mark 2:27 - and this refers to the Gen 1:2-2:3 creation week where both are made.

So when we see in Is 66:23 that even into the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL Mankind come before Me to bow down and worship"

In Matt 11 Christ did not abolish the 4th commandment. In fact Christ repeatedly challenges even one of his accusers to find a single commandment that he has nullified.

In Matt 5 Christ specifically condemns any teaching claiming that He has come to set aside or nullify the Law of God.

in Rom 3:31 Paul specifically addresses the question "do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God"

1Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the commandments of God"

 

In the NASB that is "all mankind" -- so then an "all mankind" scope set for the Sabbath Commandment in the OT - in Is 66:23.

“And it shall be from new moon to new moon
And from
Sabbath to Sabbath,
All mankind will come to bow down before Me,” says the Lord.

So also in Mark 2:27 "the Sabbath was MADE for mankind" A NT text.

when contrasting the moral law of God to the ceremonial law of God Paul says "what matters is KEEPING the commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

So also does John 1 John 5:1-4

in Christ,

Bob

 

What about being at war with the Commandments of God and setting them aside for the sake of tradition? popularity?


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

 

I use facts that all can see - you rely almost exclusively on vitriol and slander.

to each his own.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Yes that is right - 6 of the 7 are actually common ground between Sabbath keeping and Sunday keeping Christians.


1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross.

I agree with 6 out of 7 as listed above - and yet many who post against God's TEN commandments object to all of the points listed above. And sometimes they will even go on to complain that so many of the points above are in agreement with my position and opposed to the war-against-the-Ten-Commandments position.

Point 1.

That is because you are identifying Moody's 7th point above - that is also a common point held by them all.

Is it your claim that by affirming the details in my post about what Moody claims - you are advancing your opposition to my claim that this is how Moody views it??

Really??


Point 2.

In my posts I keep insisting that you are overtly opposing all 7 of the points Moody and the others affirm.

Indeed you do. I suppose that is what I mean when I keep saying you are at war with all 7 of the points he and his fellow pro-Sunday scholars make (including the Baptist Confession of Faith).

Is it your claim that by affirming the details in my post about you being at war with all 7 of Moody's claims - you are advancing your opposition to my post??

Really??


Point 3;

You mean in my opposition to his claim of bending the Sabbath? My opposing his 7th point?

By my opposing him you want to imagine that I am arguing in favor of the idea that he is keeping the 7th day sabbath by doing what I strongly oppose?? really??

Really?? who is reading this thread at such a shallow level that they are going for that?? I can't imagine even one serious Bible student going through the thread - ignoring all the details and just latching on to name-calling and vitriol saying 'yep that proves it for me'.

Is there even one person doing that?

Who??

You seem to be engaged in a bit of storytelling for your own benefit. How is that supposed to be compelling for the rest of us "given the facts" are what they are?

I find your logic illusive at that point.

You have Iconoclast motivated to start watching for details to see how you do in this sort of exchange - are you sure you want to go for that sort of "solution"??

you are getting high marks on vitriol and name calling - but what about the facts in the discussion - the actual 7 point details? You seem to be falling behind when it comes to those 7 points and the claims that have been made about them in the OP.

in Christ,
Bob

 

Your vitriol is in good form today DHK - how do you keep up the name-calling and vitriol so consistently. You must have a secret. Please share it with us.

P.S. it is no surprise here that I do keep the seventh day of the week as the "Sabbath of the Lord Thy God" -- as scripture commands.

I think we all knew that -- be honest.

Here is an honest statement from the OP -- 7 points you have yet to refute (possibly because you are so busy posting evidence after evidence that the points I list are exactly what you oppose and exactly what they promote -- (As the OP claims you would do) while then adding wild claims that you are opposing the claims made about certain pro-Sunday groups)

========================================

Yes that is right - 6 of the 7 are actually common ground between Sabbath keeping and Sunday keeping Christians.


1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross.

I agree with 6 out of 7 as listed above - and yet many who post against God's TEN commandments object to all of the points listed above. And sometimes they will even go on to complain that so many of the points above are in agreement with my position and opposed to the war-against-the-Ten-Commandments position.