Are all of God's Ten Commandments still valid?

[BobRyan]

Do you agree and afirm then with both Spurgeon and Moody that the new Covenant Christian is under grace not the law, and that Sunday worship is now our sabbath day?

Can you honestly say you read this from the OP and then remained confused on those points?

Here is an example of claims made by the pro-Sunday sources - and 6 of the 7 are actually correct according to the Bible!.


Yes that is right - 6 of the 7 are actually common ground between Sabbath keeping and Sunday keeping Christians.


1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross.

I agree with 6 out of 7 as listed above - and yet many who post against God's TEN commandments object to all of the points listed above. And sometimes they will even go on to complain that so many of the points above are in agreement with my position and opposed to the war-against-the-Ten-Commandments position.

================================
Bible texts both NT and OT about God's Commandments - Showing that the TEN Commandments are assigned the title "in scripture" as being "Commandments of God" -- and as also being "The Word of God"

10 Commandments are –
“Commandments of God” Neh 10:29
“Law of God” Neh 10:29
“Word of God” Mark 7:13
“Commandment of God” Mark 7:6-13
NT “Scripture” James 2:8
NT “Law” – James 2:9-11
NT Commandments Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

 

[RLBosley]

It is pretty obvious that D.L. Moody did not believe that nor does the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19 or the "Westminster Confession of Faith", Matthew Henry, go for the idea that God's Ten commandments have been abolished or even "replaced" by some other law.

That's nice.

And the OP points out how Christ condemned the idea of religious leaders/groups trying to replace/set aside even one of His TEN Commandments.

10 Commandments are –
“Commandments of God” Neh 10:29
“Law of God” Neh 10:29
“Word of God” Mark 7:13
“Commandment of God” Mark 7:6-13
NT “Scripture” James 2:8
NT “Law” – James 2:9-11
NT Commandments Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

In fact Paul says that within the still-binding TEN commandments the 5th Commandment is "the FIRST commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2.

In other words, you actually have no answer for 1 Cor 9:20-21 in your system, so you stick your fingers in your proverbial ears and repeat your same errors. I get the feeling I would have a more fruitful dialogue with my chair.

Have a nice day sir.

 

[BobRyan]

That's nice.



In other words, you actually have no answer for 1 Cor 9:20-21 in your system, so you stick your fingers in your proverbial ears and repeat your same errors. I get the feeling I would have a more fruitful dialogue with my chair.

Most of your post was not 1 Cor 9 at all - I simply point out that the commentary in your post not only is in opposition to the bible but even the pro-sunday scholarship listed in the OP knows that it is not so.

As for 1Cor 9

17 For if I do this voluntarily, I have a reward; but if against my will, I have a stewardship entrusted to me. 18 What then is my reward? That, when I preach the gospel, I may offer the gospel without charge, so as not to make full use of my right in the gospel. 19 For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more. 20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law; 21 to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law. 22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some. 23I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.
24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win. 25 Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. 26 Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air; 27 but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached (the Gospel) to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

"what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God." 1 Cor 7:19

Your contradiction of Paul's letter to corinth is that God's Law - God's Commandments are not Christ's, or that the OT is not the Word of Christ -- "all scripture given by inspiration from God" even though Christ calls the writing of Moses the "Word of God" in Mark 7 as I pointed out to you already and you dismissed as if this was of little importance --- though it is the teaching of Christ Himself in Mark 7

Paul (and all other Christians) was not under (under the authority of) the Law - that is, the Law of Moses contained in the 10 commandments. Yet he also states that he is not "without God's law" showing that there is a distinction being made now between God's eternal perfect law and the Decalogue. Instead he is "within (under -ESV/NASB) Christ's law.

So he, as a New Covenant Christian, is not under the 10 Commandments (which were the words of the Old Covenant), but he is not lawless or without law (anomos) he is instead under the authority of, and thus obligated to, Christ's law.

What is Christ's law? It's clearly not the 10 commandments

Do you no know that Christ is God???
The Father and the Son - are "one"??

Is this news to you?

God is not opposed to His Ten Commandments -- and Christ "IS God".

It is not news to the pro-Sunday sources I keep referencing -- and I think we all knew that.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

He said to him, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the greatest and most important command. The second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets depend on these two commands." - Matthew 22:37-40 HCSB​

This is My command: Love one another as I have loved you. No one has greater love than this, that someone would lay down his life for his friends. You are My friends if you do what I command you. - John 15:12-14 HCSB​

For this is the message you have heard from the beginning: We should love one another, ... Now this is His command: that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commands remains in Him, and He in him. And the way we know that He remains in us is from the Spirit He has given us. - 1 John 3:11, 23-24 HCSB​

If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For the person who does not love his brother he has seen cannot love the God he has not seen. And we have this command from Him: The one who loves God must also love his brother. - 1 John 4:20-21 HCSB​

Christ upholds the Law of Moses in Matt 22

Christ quotes Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself"
Christ quotes Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart"

Just when you claim you can tear it down.

John upholds the "Commandments of GOD" in 1John 5 as the sign that we actually do Love God and our fellow man - just when you insist that we can ignore them.

1 John 5
5 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. 2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and KEEP His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

The very authors - the very books you going to - refute your claims.

Even the pro-sunday scholars listed here know to refute your argument -- and "yet" all of this is "Still" supposed to be "my fault"???

Please be serious.

You cannot use "any-ol-excuse-will-do" to refute God's Ten Commandments, not if you care about the content of scripture.

That is why the majority of even pro-Sunday scholarship try not to do it.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Yeshua1]

Can you honestly say you read this from the OP and then remained confused on those points?

What is the Gospel message then?

receive Jesus thru faith alone an be saved, or strive to keep the Law and merit getting and being kept saved?

 

[BobRyan]

Sadly - it may be "left to me" to read you the "Baptist Confession of Faith" --

(has it come to this??)

Section 19. Para 7.
"The aforementioned uses of the law are not contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but they sweetly comply with it, as the Spirit of Christ subdues and enables the will of man to do freely and cheerfully those things which the will of God, which is revealed in the law, requires to be done. "

Every time the Gospel and the New Covenant comes up there is always someone who is just confused enough to think they are in conflict with each other - or in conflict with the Moral Law of God (as the BoF calls it)

"Baptist Confession of Faith"

1. The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the Ten Commandments, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.
2. Besides this law, commonly called the moral law

 

[Yeshua1]

Sadly - it may be "left to me" to read you the "Baptist Confession of Faith" --

(has it come to this??)

Section 19. Para 7.
"The aforementioned uses of the law are not contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but they sweetly comply with it, as the Spirit of Christ subdues and enables the will of man to do freely and cheerfully those things which the will of God, which is revealed in the law, requires to be done. "

Every time the Gospel and the New Covenant comes up there is always someone who is just confused enough to think they are in conflict with each other - or in conflict with the Moral Law of God (as the BoF calls it)

Again, are we saved thru faith alone by garce alone, or is it due to us keeping the law?

And NONE of those Confessions would teach us that we must keep the law to merit keeping saved, as SDA does!

Besides, its not what moody/Spurgeon etc, Confessions stated, thus sayth the scriptures, and you cannot quote and use them !

 

[BobRyan]

, thus sayth the scriptures, and you cannot quote and use them !

really??

10 Commandments are –
“Commandments of God” Neh 10:29
“Law of God” Neh 10:29
“Word of God” Mark 7:13
“Commandment of God” Mark 7:6-13
NT “Scripture” James 2:8
NT “Law” – James 2:9-11
NT Commandments Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

In fact Paul says that within the still-binding TEN commandments the 5th Commandment is "the FIRST commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2.

Did you just now show up on this thread???

Have you read none of it???

Don't you remember? These are the texts you are fleeing from "in addition" to your flight from the "Baptist Confession of Faith" - Spurgeon, D.L. Moody etc on the subject at hand as we find it in the OP.

Did you forget??

Or maybe you did not really want us to take you seriously in the first place.

in Christ,


Bob

 

[Yeshua1]

really??



Did you just now show up on this thread???

Have you read none of it???

Don't you remember? These are the texts you are fleeing from "in addition" to your flight from the "Baptist Confession of Faith" - Spurgeon, D.L. Moody etc on the subject at hand as we find it in the OP.

Did you forget??

Or maybe you did not really want us to take you seriously in the first place.

in Christ,


Bob

Could it be that we are now under Grace, not the Law, and that God requires us to live in the power of His Spirit, and then we will not do the lusts of the flesh, but will be obeying God?

Are we saved by keeping the Sabbath or not?

 

[BobRyan]

Could it be that we are now under Grace, not the Law, and that God requires us to live in the power of His Spirit, and then we will not do the lusts of the flesh, but will be obeying God?

Are we saved by keeping the Sabbath or not?

Are we "saved" by honoring our father and mother?

Is that how God reaches the lost? by saying "hey lost person if you will just stop taking My name in vain and if you will just honor your parents... well then you have earned salvation"

Really? Is that how you read it?

Don't you find the "Baptist Confession of Faith" to be a bit above that level of misunderstanding??

I should hope you would read the posts on this thread by me - and the BCoF before going down that sort of road as if anyone but you is suggesting such a thing.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[DHK]

Are we "saved" by honoring our father and mother?

Is that how God reaches the lost? by saying "hey lost person if you will just stop taking My name in vain and if you will just honor your parents... well then you have earned salvation"

Really? Is that how you read it?

Don't you find the "Baptist Confession of Faith" to be a bit above that level of misunderstanding??

I should hope you would read the posts on this thread by me - and the BCoF before going down that sort of road as if anyone but you is suggesting such a thing.

in Christ,

Bob

Moody, Spurgeon, and the Baptist Confession of Faith, are totally irrelevant.
I haven't read the Confession of Faith, and I have only read a little of each of the others.
They are not my authorities. The Word of God is. Why do you keep quoting from them. They are not representative of our beliefs, at least not mine. I don't agree with the Confession of Faith. Your quotations from these men and documents are totally irrelevant and red herrings. It is almost as if you are saying that you don't know how to use the Bible therefore you will quote from the works of man.
Is this correct?

 

[BobRyan]

Moody, Spurgeon, and the Baptist Confession of Faith, are totally irrelevant.
I haven't read the Confession of Faith, and I have only read a little of each of the others.
They are not my authorities. The Word of God is. Why do you keep quoting from them.

Because you and a few others like to "imagine" that I am the only one (or the SDA denomination is the only one) that notices the Bible details in the OP that are opposing your particular preference.

I am simply cutting that fiction short by pointing to the inconvenient detail that even the majority of "pro-sunday" scholarship notices these texts opposing your war against the points listed in the OP.

And I think this is the obvious part of the discussion so far.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

It is almost as if you are saying that you don't know how to use the Bible therefore you will quote from the works of man.
Is this correct?

One might be able to "imagine" that this is not a Bible based presentation - Until you read the actual OP --

Bible texts both NT and OT about God's Commandments - Showing that the TEN Commandments are assigned the title "in scripture" as being "Commandments of God" -- and as also being "The Word of God"

10 Commandments are –
“Commandments of God” Neh 10:29
“Law of God” Neh 10:29
“Word of God” Mark 7:13
“Commandment of God” Mark 7:6-13
NT “Scripture” James 2:8
NT “Law” – James 2:9-11
NT Commandments Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Note that in 1John 5 - John contrasts "LOVE", to the Commandments of God. He does not say "By this we know that we Love God -- if we Love God".

Rather John points to obedience to the WORD of God "the Commandments of God" as the sign that we truly to LOVE God. Being at war against his Word is not such a great sign of "loving God" as some had perhaps imagined.

1 John 5
"Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.
2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:1-3

==========================================================
Paul affirms the Ten Commandments (see point 5 below) AND He never claims that "if I did not write it -- it is not scripture for us today" -- as one or two have imagined for us.

1. Paul never commands gentiles to "Love God WITH ALL your heart".
2. Paul never commands gentiles "not to take God's name in vain"
3. Paul never commands gentiles to ignore the writings of Moses.
4. Paul DOES tell gentiles that Moses' writings are still authoritative scripture in 1Cor 9:8-9 and 1Tim 5:18 and binding as being "Law" and as being "scripture".
5. Paul quotes from Moses and the TEN Commandments Eph 6:2. Full 5th commandment
6. Paul DOES teach that there remains therefore a "Sabbath rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4.
7. Paul DOES tell gentiles that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:19
8. Paul does tell gentiles "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be justifIED... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind" Rom 2:13-16
9. Paul DOES ask that gentiles consider the doctrine of LAW "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31
10. Paul DOES tell gentiles that it is only the lost who will "not subject themselves to the LAw of God neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:6-8
11. Paul DOES tell gentiles that "The Law" is in fact "The LAW of Moses" and is to be used for testing doctrine 1Cor 9:8-9
12. Paul DOES tell gentiles that the OT text is to be used for Doctrine 2Tim 3:16

--------------------------

 

[DHK]

Because you and a few others like to "imagine" that I am the only one (or the SDA denomination is the only one) that notices the Bible details in the OP that are opposing your particular preference.

I am simply cutting that fiction short by pointing to the inconvenient detail that even the majority of "pro-sunday" scholarship notices these texts opposing your war against the points listed in the OP.

And I think this is the obvious part of the discussion so far.

in Christ,

Bob

You are going down a dead end road and walking right into fiction.
If I remember correctly both Moody and Spurgeon lived in the 1800's, far removed from our generation.
Moody was an evangelist, not a theologian. As an evangelist I may agree with him in his gospel message, but that is about it. I go no further because I don't know much more about his theology.
Spurgeon was a Calvinist. There are many things I disagree with him.
The Confession of Faith is probably even earlier than Spurgeon. If it is the Westminster Confession of Faith it is very Calvinistic, and there is so much to disagree with. Even Spurgeon's CoF I could not agree with.

These are not "representative of the majority of pro-Sunday Scholarship."
You are deceived. You err. You quote these men out of your own ignorance.
We don't follow them or their teachings nor use them as our authorities.
It would be advisable to stop using them, for you are not doing anything but making yourself look foolish every time you keep posting these quotes.

 

[BobRyan]

Moody, Spurgeon, and the Baptist Confession of Faith, are totally irrelevant.
I haven't read the Confession of Faith, and I have only read a little of each of the others.
They are not my authorities. The Word of God is. Why do you keep quoting from them.

Because you and a few others like to "imagine" that I am the only one (or the SDA denomination is the only one) that notices the Bible details in the OP that are opposing your particular preference.

I am simply cutting that fiction short by pointing to the inconvenient detail that even the majority of "pro-sunday" scholarship notices these texts opposing your war against the points listed in the OP.

And I think this is the obvious part of the discussion so far.

Here is how obvious -

Here is an example of claims made by the pro-Sunday sources - and 6 of the 7 are actually correct according to the Bible!.


A small list of pro-sunday scholarship affirming 7 of the 7 points listed in the OP

"Baptist Confession of Faith"
"Westminster Confession of Faith"
C.H. Spurgeon
Andy Stanley
Matthew Henry
[FONT=&quot]Jamieson, Fausset, Brown
R.C Sproul
"D.L. Moody"
"Dies Domini"
and many others
Yes that is right - 6 of the 7 are actually common ground between Sabbath keeping and Sunday keeping Christians.


1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross.

I agree with 6 out of 7 as listed above - and yet many who post against God's TEN commandments object to all of the points listed above. And sometimes they will even go on to complain that so many of the points above are in agreement with my position and opposed to the war-against-the-Ten-Commandments position.

================================
Bible texts both NT and OT about God's Commandments - Showing that the TEN Commandments are assigned the title "in scripture" as being "Commandments of God" -- and as also being "The Word of God"

10 Commandments are –
“Commandments of God” Neh 10:29
“Law of God” Neh 10:29
“Word of God” Mark 7:13
“Commandment of God” Mark 7:6-13
NT “Scripture” James 2:8
NT “Law” – James 2:9-11
NT Commandments Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10

...
--------------------------

From another web site

-- [/FONT] #297 (Baptist Confession of Faith)

#13 (D.L. Moody)

You are going down a dead end road and walking right into fiction.

And yet the facts in this case are hard to ignore.

If I remember correctly both Moody and Spurgeon lived in the 1800's, far removed from our generation.
Moody was an evangelist, not a theologian. As an evangelist I may agree with him in his gospel message, but that is about it. I go no further because I don't know much more about his theology.
Spurgeon was a Calvinist. There are many things I disagree with him.
The Confession of Faith is probably even earlier than Spurgeon.

Spurgeon produced his own revision of the "Baptist Confession of Faith" in the 1800's that is the one I quote. of course I also have the points from the one in the late 1600's as well.

If it is the Westminster Confession of Faith it is very Calvinistic, and there is so much to disagree with. Even Spurgeon's CoF I could not agree with.

These are not "representative of the majority of pro-Sunday Scholarship."

Take another look at the list.

The point is that the fiction that only SDAs notice these points in scripture is proven to be fiction.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Revmitchell]

So our buddy Bob denies what SDA's actually believe

He reinterprets what others believe


and continually quotes himself.


Sounds a lot like bagdadbob.

 

[DHK]

Take another look at the list.

The point is that the fiction that only SDAs notice these points in scripture is proven to be fiction.

in Christ,

Bob

You don't get it Bob. You are quoting "fiction" to us, especially to me. I am IFB. I don't have any "Baptist denominational authority, blah, blah, blah," Our church is independent from all other denominations and associations, even from Spurgeon's and Moody's, and from the SBC of course and all others. Independent means independent.
You can't quote to me anyone who is "representative" of my beliefs. It is impossible.

So what you are doing is digging a well for yourself. I am waiting for you to fall in. Stick to the Scriptures.

 

[Melanie]

Goodness me Bob your posts are yawn fully too long. I have forgotten what the first bit was. By the time you get to the end bit[emoji15]

 

[BobRyan]

You don't get it Bob. You are quoting "fiction" to us, especially to me. I am IFB.

So then these Baptists are just more people for you to run down??

http://www.fbinstitute.com/moody/The_TenCommandments_Text.html
#154

in any case the "obvious" point is that they are not SDA so complaining that everything they say is only something SDAs notice about the Bible - would be debunked.

I think we all saw that by now.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

I don't have any "Baptist denominational authority, blah, blah, blah," Our church is independent from all other denominations

You seem to be losing focus.