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Are Degree Mills Ethical?
- Thread starter Rev. G
- Start date
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
Would you settle for $49.99?
Plain Old Bill
New Member
Would some of these colleges be better named institutes? Would some of them qualify as advanced institutes? How much sincere teaching takes place? Is it that thier intentions are not equal to thier skill level? Last if they were an institute what is the actual level of thier training and it's value?
AVL1984
<img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>
I'm not sure how much "real teaching" or real learning goes on from these places. I know that my wife and I had several college professors who got their "Doctorates" through Patriot University (the same place that Kent Hovind got his "degree"), and the work didn't really seem to be all that hard to do according to them. I wouldn't recommend places like Patriot and several others. I'd ask for a list of grads to see what kind of people actually graduated from their "college", "university", or whatever, and then talk to some of them about the quality of "education".
Greetings.
Back in 1987 I started the process of applying for admission into Seminaries to work on a Doctoral Degree. I had already earned a B.S. Degree and also an M.Div. Degree (the latter from an accredited Baptist Seminary.)
As I was praying about and making up my mind where to attend, and what kind of Doctoral program to get into, I came to this conclusion: "If I could not get accepted into an accredited Seminary that had a quality on-campus program (as opposed to a mail-order, diploma-mill type), then I would not even pursue the Doctoral Degree at all."
~~ And that is what I did. I had several pastor friends who had "earned - bought" degrees from some of the mail-order seminaries, and they told me to do that. They said it was easier, quicker, and cheaper.
Well, I was tempted, but not for long. I applied to and was accepted to the New Orleans Baptist Seminary and earned my Doctoral Degree there, graduating in December 1990.
I do not criticize those who choose the diploma-mill route, but niether do I praise them or call them "Doctor." I have a good friend who was a DOM (Director of Missions) in a large Texas Baptist Association. In his job, he often recommended men to churches as potential staff members. One particular man wanted to change churches in the worst way. He had also received a Doctoral Degree from Luther Rice. The DOM begged him to take the L.R. Degree OFF HIS RESUME because it was actually hurting the man's chances to get a staff job. The DOM heard from more than one Search Committee that they did not put much stock at all in the L.R. Degrees or in other Diploma Mills. So, perhaps we should heed that advice when it comes to selecting a school?
Certainly, some of the "Diploma Mills" require more work than others, and with the WWW and Internet becoming more and more common place, the opportunities to get a degree will change over time.
But, that time has not arrived, yet, and I believe it is still many years away.
That is my opinion... take it or leave it. Have a good day. BLT
Back in 1987 I started the process of applying for admission into Seminaries to work on a Doctoral Degree. I had already earned a B.S. Degree and also an M.Div. Degree (the latter from an accredited Baptist Seminary.)
As I was praying about and making up my mind where to attend, and what kind of Doctoral program to get into, I came to this conclusion: "If I could not get accepted into an accredited Seminary that had a quality on-campus program (as opposed to a mail-order, diploma-mill type), then I would not even pursue the Doctoral Degree at all."
~~ And that is what I did. I had several pastor friends who had "earned - bought" degrees from some of the mail-order seminaries, and they told me to do that. They said it was easier, quicker, and cheaper.
Well, I was tempted, but not for long. I applied to and was accepted to the New Orleans Baptist Seminary and earned my Doctoral Degree there, graduating in December 1990.
I do not criticize those who choose the diploma-mill route, but niether do I praise them or call them "Doctor." I have a good friend who was a DOM (Director of Missions) in a large Texas Baptist Association. In his job, he often recommended men to churches as potential staff members. One particular man wanted to change churches in the worst way. He had also received a Doctoral Degree from Luther Rice. The DOM begged him to take the L.R. Degree OFF HIS RESUME because it was actually hurting the man's chances to get a staff job. The DOM heard from more than one Search Committee that they did not put much stock at all in the L.R. Degrees or in other Diploma Mills. So, perhaps we should heed that advice when it comes to selecting a school?
Certainly, some of the "Diploma Mills" require more work than others, and with the WWW and Internet becoming more and more common place, the opportunities to get a degree will change over time.
That is my opinion... take it or leave it. Have a good day. BLT
B
Benfranklin403
Guest
I find it baffling that some Pastors would have such low ethical standards as to get degrees from diploma mills. Can anyone explain that? For instance Patriot University was (is) without doubt a diploma mill. If I were evaluating an application, I would consider a degree from a diploma mill highly negative. I have known a couple of people who had that sort of degree and they were ethically compromised in other areas as well.
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
Dr. scubablt,
Thank you for your post and for you integrity. And welcome to the Baptist Board! I hope to see more of you on this board.
CBTS
Thank you for your post and for you integrity. And welcome to the Baptist Board! I hope to see more of you on this board.
CBTS
Many assumptions and presuppositions have entered into this thread on "Degree Mills."
So far I haven't seen anyone really "define" a "degree mill." Everyone has his OPINION! That's good, as long as IT doesn't take the place of REALITY.
And the discusion has turned to "ethics." Some seem to believe that "ethical rules" come from an accrediting agency or some public standard of publishable material. I guess I've been deceived for many years in believing that our ethics ought to come from God's Holy Word! That has sustained me for more than 50 years, so I guess it will hold me till death.
Education is good! Not all educational institutions are! God will send you or not send you, if you listen, to whatever or whomever He desires. Do all things as if you are doing them for Jesus, I read someplace!
Rufus
So far I haven't seen anyone really "define" a "degree mill." Everyone has his OPINION! That's good, as long as IT doesn't take the place of REALITY.
And the discusion has turned to "ethics." Some seem to believe that "ethical rules" come from an accrediting agency or some public standard of publishable material. I guess I've been deceived for many years in believing that our ethics ought to come from God's Holy Word! That has sustained me for more than 50 years, so I guess it will hold me till death.
Education is good! Not all educational institutions are! God will send you or not send you, if you listen, to whatever or whomever He desires. Do all things as if you are doing them for Jesus, I read someplace!
Rufus
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
Here is one definition:
A degree mill is a business that makes a profit from the tuition that it charges it students as compared to a real seminary or university whose cost in educating its students is several times more than what they charge for tuition (although they charge very much more), causing them to rely on gifts from their very thankful alumni who have greatly prospered from the education that they received from their alma matter.
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
It has been my personal observation that both are vital to a good education. Those who have compromised may deserve a certificate of some sort, but a graduate degree is highly inappropriate.
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
As of two years ago (the latest data that I have), the average annual salary for a full professor at Princeton Theological Seminary was a pitiful $102,800. The average annual salary for a full professor at Harvard University was $144,700, at Rockefeller University $139,500, at Princeton University $131,700, at Yale University $131,200, at Stanford University $131,000, and at the University of Chicago $129,000. At Faith Baptist Bible College and Seminary which has a doctoral program it was $37,300, while the average for a church-related doctoral institution was $99,426 with an annual increase of 3.7%.
Faith Baptist Bible College and Seminary, 1900 NW 4th St. Ankeny, IA 50021, is accredited by the Higher Learning Commission and a member of the North Central Association of College and Schools. Would you like to submit a guess what the average annual salary is at non-accredited Baptist colleges? Would you believe that a part-time janitor at Wal-Mart gets paid more? And what do you suppose a teacher at a degree mill gets paid? Would you believe that some of them get paid a commission based on the number of students that they get to enroll just like a used car salesman?
My point: Colleges, seminaries, and universities compete with one another for the best educated and trained professors. Salaries are a major factor in that competition.
P.S. You might want to consider sending the professors at Faith Baptist Bible College and Seminary a love offering so that they can buy groceries for Thanksgiving!
Faith Baptist Bible College and Seminary, 1900 NW 4th St. Ankeny, IA 50021, is accredited by the Higher Learning Commission and a member of the North Central Association of College and Schools. Would you like to submit a guess what the average annual salary is at non-accredited Baptist colleges? Would you believe that a part-time janitor at Wal-Mart gets paid more? And what do you suppose a teacher at a degree mill gets paid? Would you believe that some of them get paid a commission based on the number of students that they get to enroll just like a used car salesman?
My point: Colleges, seminaries, and universities compete with one another for the best educated and trained professors. Salaries are a major factor in that competition.
P.S. You might want to consider sending the professors at Faith Baptist Bible College and Seminary a love offering so that they can buy groceries for Thanksgiving!
Here is one definition:
A degree mill is a business that makes a profit from the tuition that it charges it students as compared to a real seminary or university whose cost in educating its students is several times more than what they charge for tuition (although they charge very much more), causing them to rely on gifts from their very thankful alumni who have greatly prospered from the education that they received from their alma matter.
Rufus
I taught at a strong ifb accredited college in 96-00. 25k and housing. That is NOT as much as most ifb pastors in the state received.
And I would not receive much more if I were full time in our local state college here (I've taught adjunct and the $$ is lousy for that)
We all don't live in the liberal Northeast with its salary structure. Or Orange County.
Let me know if an opening occurs . . .
And I would not receive much more if I were full time in our local state college here (I've taught adjunct and the $$ is lousy for that)
We all don't live in the liberal Northeast with its salary structure. Or Orange County.
Let me know if an opening occurs . . .
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
Send me a copy of your resume and I will see what I can do for youLet me know if an opening occurs . . .