Are Doctrines affected by Modern Versions?

[rsr]

It is regrettable that so many people believe hagiography that agrees with their preconceived notions. What the medieval Waldenses believed and practiced is colored by later Protestant authors to prove that Protestantism, far from being a novelty, reached back to the third or fourth century.

The truth is that such "scholarship" occurred late, and when Protestant Europe sought the patina of ancient usage among the Waldenses to bolster their case against the Catholics.

The truth is that the Waldenses disagreed (with good reason) with some Latin Rite practices, but would not be recognizable as "Protestants" until the Reformation promised relief from their persecution and they adopted Reformed theology, either of the Zwinglian or Calvinistic kind.

Many of the "histories" compiled thus are at odds with the documentary record and essentially were propaganda in the religious wars that wracked Europe.

 

[Yeshua1]

Where is this belief found in Scripture or believed by ANYONE in Christian history prior to the Protestant invention of this belief?

Once again, there is NO CHURCH in all of Christian history which ever used a 66-book canon. NONE. NADA.

The reformers did not see those extra books as being equal and inspired, as the canon books werer!

 

[Yeshua1]

I present you with a time machine to the second century to witness an ECF who lived from 185 A.D. to roughly 254 A.D....

But he ought to know that those who wish to live according to the teaching of Sacred Scripture understand the saying, 'The knowledge of the unwise is as talk without sense,' [Sirach 21:18] and have learnt 'to be ready always to give an answer to everyone that asketh us a reason for the hope that is in us.’ [1 Pt 3:15] " Origen, Against Celsus, 7:12, in ANF, IV:615


[A]s is written in the book of Tobit: 'It is good to keep close the secret of a king, but honourable to reveal the works of God,' [Tobit 12:7]--in a way consistent with truth and God's glory, and so as to be to the advantage of the multitude." Origen, Against Celsus, 5:19, in ANF,IV:551.


But that we may believe on the authority of holy Scripture that such is the case, hear how in the book of Maccabees, where the mother of seven martyrs exhorts her son to endure torture, this truth is confirmed; for she says, ' ask of thee, my son, to look at the heaven and the earth, and at all things which are in them, and beholding these, to know that God made all these things when they did not exist.' [2 Maccabees 7:28]" Origen, Fundamental Principles, 2:2,in ANF, IV:270


And that which is written about wisdom, you may apply also to faith, and to the virtues specifically, so as to make a precept of this kind, "If any one be perfect in wisdom among the sons of men, and the power that comes from Thee be wanting, he will be reckoned as nothing " or "If any one be perfect in self-control, so far as is possible for the sons of men, and the control that is from Thee be wanting, he will be reckoned as nothing; (Wisdom 9:6) Origen, Commentary on Matthew, 4, in ANF, IX:427.


And as a general principle observe the expression "behind"; because it is a good thing when any one goes behind the Lord God and is behind the Christ; but it is the opposite when any one casts the words of God behind him, or when he transgresses the commandment which says "Do not walk behind thy lusts." (Sirach 18:30) And Elijah also in the third Book of Kings, says to the people "How long halt ye on both your knees? If God is the Lord, go behind Him, but if Baal is the Lord, go behind him." (1 Kings 18:21) Origen, Commentary on Matthew 23 Origen, 22, in ANF, IX:463 AD 254


Let me know if you want more. Once again, there is NO CHURCH in all of Christian history which ever had a 66-book canon. NONE. NADA.

Those were the ONLY books inspired by God to the church....

 

[Yeshua1]

Doctrines are absolutely affected by modern per-"versions", for instance, they think that the have evidence in their 'Bibles' for their position that "the Lord's day" is Sunday, the "first [day] of the week", but when asked for evidence, do you know what they do?

See What they do here

See for yourself.

Sabbath was just given to Israel, as the early Church gathered and worshipped on Sunday, Day of the lord, as when Jesus arose!

 

[Alofa Atu]

Sabbath was just given to Israel, as the early Church gathered and worshipped on Sunday, Day of the lord, as when Jesus arose!

See what I mean. Just bald assertions, no scripture evidence presented whatsoever. Unwilling to take their position in open forums. Thus the slogan:

When cowardice (fear) reigns, there can only be terrorism as its policy.

 

[37818]

Since the beginning, there have been those who have inserted changes to fit their own doctrinal bias.
Because they are predisposed to mans 'ideas' and 'interpretation', rather than the truth, their can be changes by unscrupulous men or those who do not fear God. This was the reason the Jews would not change the text, but do a word for word translation or manuscript, and this is not the case at the least for most of these 'modern' versions.

Lets compare one verse, 1 John 4:3:

NIV - but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

RSV - and every spirit which does not confess Jesus is not of God. This is the spirit of antichrist, of which you heard that it was coming, and now it is in the world already.

ASV and every spirit that confesseth not Jesus is not of God: and this is the spirit of the antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it cometh; and now it is in the world already.

KJV - And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

We see here in 1 John 4:3 that the NIV takes out the whole point in the text, "NIV leaves out the fact that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh--yet another swipe at the divinity of Christ." https://mundall.com/erik/NIV-KJV.htm

No, it does not change doctrine. This is an overly used argument of KJVO.

Actually, both the nas and 1984 Niv support the Deity of Jesus more so than even the kjv did!

The real issue is over the omission of the phrase ". . . is come in the flesh . . . ."

 

[37818]

The problem is not merely a teaching. But a spectrum of teaches. Mark 1:2. John 1:18. John 6:47. John 13:2.

 

[Yeshua1]

See what I mean. Just bald assertions, no scripture evidence presented whatsoever. Unwilling to take their position in open forums. Thus the slogan:

When cowardice (fear) reigns, there can only be terrorism as its policy.

Are you a Sda then?

 

[Yeshua1]

The problem is not merely a teaching. But a spectrum of teaches. Mark 1:2. John 1:18. John 6:47. John 13:2.

When taken as a whole though, none of the reputable modern versions deny any essential doctrine of the faith!

 

[Hobie]

When taken as a whole though, none of the reputable modern versions deny any essential doctrine of the faith!

Don't have to, just change it slightly so you can bring in the substitute..

Luke 11:2-4 King James Version (KJV)
2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.
3 Give us day by day our daily bread.
4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.

Luke 11:2-4 New International Version (NIV)
2 He said to them, “When you pray, say:
“‘Father,[a]
hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come.[b]
3 Give us each day our daily bread.
4 Forgive us our sins,
for we also forgive everyone who sins against us.[c]
And lead us not into temptation.d]'>[d]’

Luke 11:2-4 Revised Standard Version (RSV)
2 And he said to them, “When you pray, say:
“Father, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. 3 Give us each day our daily bread;a]'>[a] 4 and forgive us our sins, for we ourselves forgive every one who is indebted to us; and lead us not into temptation.”

Luke 11:2-4 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
2 And He said to them, "When you pray, say:
'[a]Father, hallowed be Your name.
Your kingdom come.
3 ‘Give us each day our '[b]daily bread.
4 ‘And forgive us our sins,
For we ourselves also forgive everyone who is indebted to us.
And lead us not into temptation.’”

 

[Walpole]

The reformers did not see those extra books as being equal and inspired, as the canon books werer!

Bingo! Thank you for finally conceding.

The only reason you have a 66-book canon is because a "reformer" decided to remove books from the canon. Once again, there is NO church in all of Christian history which ever used a 66-book canon. None. Nada.

 

[Walpole]

Those were the ONLY books inspired by God to the church....

Thanks again for conceding those books quoted by the second century father I posted are inspired by God. Now please make your case why a couple of men some 1300 years later had the authority to decide some books of the canon were no longer inspired by God.

 

[Logos1560]

Don't have to, just change it slightly so you can bring in the substitute..

Do you apply the same exact measure/standard justly to the making of the KJV as the Church of England makers of it changed some renderings in the pre-1611 English Bibles to make them more favorable to Church of England doctrinal views especially their episcopal church government view?

 

[Hobie]

Do you apply the same exact measure/standard justly to the making of the KJV as the Church of England makers of it changed some renderings in the pre-1611 English Bibles to make them more favorable to Church of England doctrinal views especially their episcopal church government view?

Yes, and we can see it here..so have be careful and do word for word as was done at the start of it.

Acts 12:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.

Acts 12:4 Revised Geneva Translation (RGT)
4 And when he had caught him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to be kept, intending to bring him forth to the people after the Passover.

Acts 12:4 Wycliffe Bible (WYC)
4 And when he had caught Peter, he sent him into prison; and betook him to four quaternions of knights, to keep him, and would after pask (Pasch) bring him forth to the people [willing after pask to bring him forth to the people].

Acts 12:4 1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)
4 a]'>[a]And when he had caught him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to be kept, intending after the Passover to bring him forth to the people.

Acts 12:4 World English Bible (WEB)

4 When he had arrested him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four squads of four soldiers each to guard him, intending to bring him out to the people after the Passover.

 

[Hobie]

Here is a good explanation...
"In this passage, the King James translators mistranslated the Greek word pascha, which denotes the Passover. Thus, in Acts 12:4 the phrase after Easter should read “after the Passover” signifying the whole festival of Unleavened Bread. Peter was incarcerated throughout the entire festival with the intent of Herod (Agrippa) to bring him out for public trial after the Passover period had ended. (LIBERTY BIBLE COMMENTARY, Vol. II, p. 292).

The term “Easter” is not of Christian origin. In fact, it is another form of the word “Astarte,” one of the titles of the Chaldean goddess known as the queen of Heaven. The actual festival of Pasch held by Christians in post-apostolic times was a continuation of the Jewish feast of Unleavened Bread — the Passover. This Pasch and the pagan festival of Easter were quite distinct, yet they were introduced into the apostate Western religion as part of the attempt to adapt pagan festivals to Christianity (this was not instituted by Christ). (VINE’S EXPOSITORY DICTIONARY OF THE NEW TESTAMENT WORDS, pp. 344-345)."...
Is Easter a Pagan Holiday?

 

[37818]

When taken as a whole though, none of the reputable modern versions deny any essential doctrine of the faith!

You are careless when it comes to what God's word actually says.

 

[Adonia]

Those were the ONLY books inspired by God to the church....

He just told you of an ECF mentioning about the Holy Scripture books of Tobit and Sirach in the 2nd and 3rd centuries and you continue to deny the truth about the complete canon of Scripture. Unbelievable!

 

[Walter]

The reformers did not see those extra books as being equal and inspired, as the canon books werer!

You have been asked time and again to provide evidence that any group of believers prior to the reformers were using your 66 book Canon. You have always ignored the request. Will you now provide that evidence?

 

[Adonia]

The term “Easter” is not of Christian origin. In fact, it is another form of the word “Astarte,” one of the titles of the Chaldean goddess known as the queen of Heaven. The actual festival of Pasch held by Christians in post-apostolic times was a continuation of the Jewish feast of Unleavened Bread — the Passover. This Pasch and the pagan festival of Easter were quite distinct, yet they were introduced into the apostate Western religion as part of the attempt to adapt pagan festivals to Christianity (this was not instituted by Christ). (VINE’S EXPOSITORY DICTIONARY OF THE NEW TESTAMENT WORDS, pp. 344-345)."...
Is Easter a Pagan Holiday?

God is not stupid. He used what was here (paganism) to His own advantage. Why can you not see that?

I ask you, to which Christian sect do you belong?

 

[Yeshua1]

You are careless when it comes to what God's word actually says.

Can you show us where any reputable modern translations denies essentials of the faith?