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Featured Are Human Beings Born Sinners?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, Feb 17, 2021.

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  1. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    One more answer and I'm done. Firstly, Spurgeon was a far better man than either you or I. He is, as I said, in line with the various confessions. 'Infants dying in infancy are regenerated and saved by Christ through the Spirit (John 3:3-6), who works when, where and how He pleases (John 3:8). So also are all elect persons who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word..' Secondly, the Bible clearly teaches that we are born sinners. The fact that newborn infants have not yet had the opportunity to sin does not affect that.
    This is clearly observable in small children.. you have to teach an infant everything: how to be clean, how to walk, how to talk, how to hold a knife and/or fork and so forth. But the one thing you do not have to teach an infant is how to sin. No one has to tell a small child. "Now Johnny, this is how to be selfish. You keep all your toys to yourself and don't let your sister play with them." Or, "Now then, Jenny, here's how to tell a lie; you think of something that isn't true and say it as if it is." No! Children come naturally to these things without any instruction, because they have sinful natures. Parents can instill some sort of right behaviour in them, but that sinful, selfish nature is right there inside.
    So, if children dying in infancy are saved, and you may be right to point to 2 Samuel 12:23 to suggest that they are, it will be God who saves them by His grace and mercy alone, not they themselves by their purity, for they have none.

    Every one of the Great Crowd of Revelation 7, standing around the throne dressed in white, including the saved infants, is saying the same thing: "Salvation belongs to our God who sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb." God owes salvation to no one.

    "Not to us, O LORD, not unto us, but to Your name give glory, because of Your mercy, because of Your truth"
    (Psalms 115:1).
     
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  2. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Theology literally has nothing to do with it. Not a single one of the verses say the children did not sin. The only one that even states that talks about unborn children which are irrelevant to the topic.

    Not knowing what sin is, not knowing what evil is, does not mean you cannot sin. Adam and Eve did not have the knowledge of good and evil but they were still able to sin. Have you considered this?
     
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Yes!
     
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Some seem to not agree with the scriptures that all have sinned in Adam, and that none escape being sinners, save for the Lord Jesus!
     
  5. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    OK. Let's end here. Thanks for sharing
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    So do we all now agree here that we are sinners by both natures and by choice?
     
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  7. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    My answer is in the OP
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Which was?
     
  9. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Have you read it you?
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    My take was that you do not see us as being accounted by God as being sinners until we make the conscious decision to start sinning!
     
  11. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    I am only going by the Scriptures, until I am proven to be wrong. It is clear that there are verses as in the OP, that there are babies in the womb, not as yet born, as in Romans, that are said not to have done anything right or wrong. And such is the verse in Isaiah. This says that the Bible teaches that there is a time, known only to God, that "infants" are not regarded as "sinners", as in actually committing any sins. Then we have the case which is David's son, who died and went to heaven, later to be joined by David himself. This is not me, but the Bible. If wrong, please feel free to correct me. But using verses like Romans 3:23 do not answer the OP, as this verse speaks of those who are "sinners", which these infants are not, according to the Word. And we know that there are zero contradictions in the 66 Boks of the Holy Bible!
     
  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    A figure of speach, or because it does not fit your understanding?
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    So you do not see that in Adam all spiritually died, and that those in Christ now made spiritually alive?
     
  14. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    You do know what pelagianism is?
     
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  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    He seems to be in somewhat an agreement!
     
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  16. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    All humans inherited a sinful nature from Adam and Eve. But surely they only become sinners after they actually commit a sin? The verses in the OP cannot be ignored
     
  17. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Very much so
     
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God sees us all as being spiritual dead in Adam!
     
  19. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    And the OP has been proven wrong 10-Fold. If you stick with your premise of your OP, all you have proven is that you go against what Scripture states and refuse to do otherwise.
     
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  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Even sins of omission count to God!
     
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