Are miracles always instantaneous?

[rlvaughn]

Are miracles always instantaneous? []

Miracles are perfect and produce perfection. They are also instantaneous.

John, I wanted to take this out of the context of the endless Bible Versions debate to discuss on its on merit. I hope you do not mind.

There are some miracles that might not be considered instantaneous -- that is, some miracles for which people have made this claim. Here are three which I have heard.

• Luke 17:14 And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.
• John 9:6-7 When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay, And said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.) He went his way therefore, and washed, and came seeing.
• Mark 8:23-25 And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking. After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

I think the first two are fairly easily explained. When the person or persons did what Jesus said, then they were instantly healed. The third is certainly an odd case among all of Jesus's miracles. Some would assert that the man's vision was gradually getting better (or something like that).

Thoughts?

 

[Stratton7]

I’m not sure as to what to think on the OP yet, but I know when people get injured and say had died on the operation table, came back and made a “miraculous” recovery against all odds, would this be considered a non instantaneous miracle?

 

[robycop3]

I've seen 2 miracles that weren't instantaneous. The first was in 2000, when my wife was in a schoolbus rollover. She was the monitor on the bus, & she was thrown hard against the ceiling & came down hard on the back of a seat just below the breasts, which smashes all the lower ribs to pieces, punctured both lungs, lacerated her liver, & numerous other fractures & internal injuries. The trauma team told me she will likely die any time, & took me in to say goodbye. (She was unconscious.) But she lived, remaining unconscious for over a month. (but not in a coma) She was in ICU for over a month; hospitalized for 2.5 months. Her mind remained intact, & she slowly regained strength, & even returning to work as a special-ed asst., though on partial disability. Her main after-effect is she has COPD as a result of the lung injuries. She just retired this year from the school system at age 71. And she didn't hesitate to tell the kids in school that GOD kept her alive after sustaining what should've been fatal injuries.

The other was at work, when a co-worker "coded" from a heart attack. The first part was that he went down in front of the boss, who caught him enough to keep him from falling hard to the concrete floor, and the fact that he'd come down from his overhead crane; he generally only came down to bathroom, etc. & he was near my work station. The boss, knowing my background, hollered at me; I realized at once he was in cardiac arrest. I asked a co-worker to holler for help on the radio, as the boss called 911, & began CPR. Soon, 2 co-workers arrived, both former EMTs who knew CPR. I was exhausted, but & "breathed" the man while the others took over doung compressions. Performing bare-handed CPR doesn't save but maybe 1 in 10 patients from death, but we kept it up til the cavalry arrived. (a paramedic squad) They twice defibrillated the man before transporting him. BUT HE LIVED, & made a complete recovery! (He is an asst. pastor, & one of the men who helped me with CPR is one as well.) Had he coded inside the crane cab, no one would've known until we needed the crane, & it would almost certainly have been too late. And he weighs 300 lb. & getting him down the narrow stairs to the crane cam would've been very difficult. Or, he could've stopped the crane away from the stairs, as he often does.

No one can convince me both these events weren't miracles !

 

[SGO]

We are all happy that we are born again, and rejoice in our hearts for the miracle God did for us and know He pays attention to each of us and deals with each of us differently, right?

How many of us just heard the gospel once and we believed right away?

Many of us have had to hear the gospel a number of times and then presented partially or in different ways.

Finally we realized our need and received Jesus Christ as our Savior.

Those "miracles" took long periods of time, in some cases many years.

 

[just-want-peace]

My personal belief is that multitudes of miracles happen all the time. The biggest problem is that we, as a "modern society", won't/can't see a miracle unless it practically slaps us in the face!!
He doesn't have to "snap" His fingers for a miracle to occur; He can perform a miracle over time as in cases where a person is medically declared dead, but still, somehow (?) manages to hold on to life positively.
IMHO, miracles happen everyday, but since we have so many variations of "physical/mental/social/etc." support systems in place - as opposed to same in 3rd world countries - that we simply just don't see any obvious miracles!!
Just my old fashioned beliefs of course!!

 

[rlvaughn]

Feel free to answer in any way you wish. But for my part I had in mind biblical accounts of miracles when I asked the question.

Sorry I didn’t make that clear.

 

[robycop3]

Feel free to answer in any way you wish. But for my part I had in mind biblical accounts of miracles when I asked the question.

Sorry I didn’t make that clear.

An OT example is the healing of the Syrian officer Naaman's leprosy.

 

[John of Japan]

Are miracles always instantaneous? [] John, I wanted to take this out of the context of the endless Bible Versions debate to discuss on its on merit. I hope you do not mind.

There are some miracles that might not be considered instantaneous -- that is, some miracles for which people have made this claim. Here are three which I have heard.

• Luke 17:14 And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.
• John 9:6-7 When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay, And said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.) He went his way therefore, and washed, and came seeing.
• Mark 8:23-25 And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking. After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

I think the first two are fairly easily explained. When the person or persons did what Jesus said, then they were instantly healed. The third is certainly an odd case among all of Jesus's miracles. Some would assert that the man's vision was gradually getting better (or something like that).

Thoughts?

You are right about the first two. There is nothing there that looks like a process, especially when you look at the Greek.

Concerning the third one, this is the one usually brought up with I discuss miracles as instantaneous. But it was not a process, but rather two distinct miracles. Christ did it that way for a purpose, of course, but that's another question.

Every other single miracle in the whole Bible is very obviously an instantaneous event. A miracle is not a human work, but a work of God, reaching down into nature (our space-time continuum, which God exists outside of) to do something humans cannot do. On the other hand, providence is when God works through humans and their circumstances to accomplish His will. Since He uses imperfect humans, the result is therefore human and thus not completely without human error.

 

[John of Japan]

An OT example is the healing of the Syrian officer Naaman's leprosy.

He was healed instantaneously, but not until the seventh dip.

 

[just-want-peace]

The replaced ear of the servant at the arrest of Jesus.
The resurrection of Lazarus

 

[John of Japan]

We are all happy that we are born again, and rejoice in our hearts for the miracle God did for us and know He pays attention to each of us and deals with each of us differently, right?

How many of us just heard the gospel once and we believed right away?

Many of us have had to hear the gospel a number of times and then presented partially or in different ways.

Finally we realized our need and received Jesus Christ as our Savior.

Those "miracles" took long periods of time, in some cases many years.

No, the events leading up to salvation are not miracles that take long periods of time. You are referring to what theology calls Providence (See Rom. 8:28). The providence that led up to the actual miracle of regeneration took a long time. Salvation is the ultimate miracle, and it is instantaneous.

 

[just-want-peace]

Bible Study Sheets — Teach Sunday School

Scroll down a bit to “MIRACLES”.

 

[SGO]

No, the events leading up to salvation are not miracles that take long periods of time. You are referring to what theology calls Providence (See Rom. 8:28). The providence that led up to the actual miracle of regeneration took a long time. Salvation is the ultimate miracle, and it is instantaneous.

Too bad you think the process of being saved is not a miracle.
You think the spiritual seeds that were planted along the way were not supernatural?
The Holy Spirit of Christ was directly involved in the process.

It just took an instant to change your mind.

Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
Romans 10:17

 

[John of Japan]

Too bad you think the process of being saved is not a miracle.
You think the spiritual seeds that were planted along the way were not supernatural?
The Holy Spirit of Christ was directly involved in the process.

It just took an instant to change your mind.

Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
Romans 10:17

;
What in the world? Where did you get that I don't believe salvation is a miracle??? Don't misquote me. Of course I believe salvation is a miracle. But it is not a process, as you said it is. It is instantaneous.

What leads up to salvation may or may not be miraculous. Providence is a process. Salvation is not. God may lead a friend to witness. That is not a miracle. God may have someone hand out a Gospel tract. That is a human action, not a miracle; only God does miracles.

 

[rlvaughn]

Bible Study Sheets — Teach Sunday School

Scroll down a bit to “MIRACLES”.

Thanks! That is a nice chart someone has put together. Helps you get a look at everything together. It appears it misses some general statements about Jesus performing miracles, though. For example, I do not see Matthew 12:15, which is a general reference distinct from the miracle before and after, Matthew 12:10-14 and Matthew 12:22-23 (which are on the chart).

 

[rlvaughn]

Just for an example of how some people look at miracles of the Bible differently, here is a list one guy made and posted "off the top of his head." (I am not claiming he is correct.)

1) the man whose eyes Jesus annointed with mud and told to go and wash them in the pool of siloam.
2) the lepers who were healed 'as they went'
3) the man whose eyes Jesus prayed for twice
4) the centurions son who 'began to amend at that very hour'
5) Lazarus, of whom Jesus made His first prayer confession when He said, 'this sickness is not unto death', yet we know that he did die three days later, and then Jesus raised him from the dead, (this then was either a lie, or a confession.) This miracle was three days in the making...
6) The woman's epileptic son who the disciples could not heal, but when Jesus came and cast out the demon. When the disciples asked why they could not cast him out, Jesus said, because of your unbelief.
7) The woman who fell off the wall and died as Paul was preaching, who Paul then prayed for and continued preaching. After Paul left she got up alive.
8) The fig tree was not a healing, but it was an object lesson on how to pray the prayer of faith, which is the same kind of prayer we are to use for healing according to James. In that case Jesus command/confession took till the next day to manifest.
9) Of course, going into the Old Testament, we have God calling Abraham 'Abram-The Father Of Many Nations' 25 years before Sarah gave birth to Isaac, and 11 years before Hagar gave birth to Ishmael.​

 

[Jerome]

The miracle of the never-failing jar of flour and cruse of oil during the drought.
1 Kings 17:8-16

Hallelujah!

 

[rlvaughn]

9) Of course, going into the Old Testament, we have God calling Abraham 'Abram-The Father Of Many Nations' 25 years before Sarah gave birth to Isaac, and 11 years before Hagar gave birth to Ishmael.

By the standard used in this one -- counting from the time something was promised or prophesied -- God was in the process of performing the miracle of the virgin birth some 700 years (Isaiah 7:14), or even much longer (Genesis 3:16)!

 

[SGO]

;
What in the world? Where did you get that I don't believe salvation is a miracle??? Don't misquote me. Of course I believe salvation is a miracle. But it is not a process, as you said it is. It is instantaneous.

What leads up to salvation may or may not be miraculous. Providence is a process. Salvation is not. God may lead a friend to witness. That is not a miracle. God may have someone hand out a Gospel tract. That is a human action, not a miracle; only God does miracles.

Right, Providence is not a miracle because it is not instantaneous.

I did not misquote you.

You want the fast only to be miraculous but not the slow.

 

[John of Japan]

The miracle of the never-failing jar of flour and cruse of oil during the drought.
1 Kings 17:8-16

Hallelujah!

That was a series of individual miracles, not a single process miracle.