Are miracles always instantaneous?

[George Antonios]

Aren't we all just splitting hairs here?

 

[SGO]

If you have hairs to split.

How about Moses and the parting of the Red Sea.

That and all the people crossing was instantaneous?

 

[rlvaughn]

Aren't we all just splitting hairs here?

In what sense do you mean, George?

In my opinion, if the Bible calls one kind of thing a miracle and not another kind of thing a miracle, I am good to only call that "one kind of thing" a miracle. The matter, then, would be to find out what the Bible calls a miracle. I think there is a distinction in our often common English usage of the word "miracle" and the biblical usage of the word "miracle". However, I am perfectly willing to consider biblical examples that call my view into question.

Thanks.

 

[rlvaughn]

Modern medicine performs miracles because God increased our knowledge. So glory is due to him. Psychosomatic cures are miracles if God grants repentance from the sins causing them. But we have nothing today close to the Apostle's signs and wonders, or Jesus' creative cures.

Thanks for explaining what you mean. I am perfectly willing to give God all the glory for any and all of these things, but hesitant to call them miracles in the biblical sense.

 

[George Antonios]

In what sense do you mean, George?

In my opinion, if the Bible calls one kind of thing a miracle and not another kind of thing a miracle, I am good to only call that "one kind of thing" a miracle. The matter, then, would be to find out what the Bible calls a miracle. I think there is a distinction in our often common English usage of the word "miracle" and the biblical usage of the word "miracle". However, I am perfectly willing to consider biblical examples that call my view into question.

Thanks.

I get your point and agree. Was referring more to the analysis in some of the posts. Sorry for not being clear.

 

[Jerome]

The miracle of the never-failing jar of flour and cruse of oil during the drought.
1 Kings 17:8-16

Hallelujah!

Spurgeon: "Though the barrel of meal hold but a scanty supply, though the cruse of oil contain but a drop, that meal shall last thee to the end, that cruse of oil, miraculously multiplied, hour by hour, shall be sufficient"

Amen!

 

[1689Dave]

Thanks for explaining what you mean. I am perfectly willing to give God all the glory for any and all of these things, but hesitant to call them miracles in the biblical sense.

Creation is a miracle including all parts of it. Everything you see is part of God's miraculous decree of all that will ever be. Things just don't happen by themselves.

 

[rlvaughn]

Everything you see is part of God's miraculous decree of all that will ever be. Things just don't happen by themselves.

No disagreement there. However, for example, the birth of babies is part of that decree. Such an event is amazing, awesome, incredible, wonderful, mind-boggling, certainly "miraculous" in the way we often use the word. On the other hand, it is part of God's normal and usual decree of what happens regularly in the course of human events. There is no diminishing of God's glory just because of that. I am not aware that the Bible addresses birth in terms of being a miracle in the way that it does things like parting the Red Sea, giving sight to the blind, or raising the dead -- with the possible exception of some specific births (such as the virgin birth).

 

[George Antonios]

Creation is a miracle including all parts of it. Everything you see is part of God's miraculous decree of all that will ever be. Things just don't happen by themselves.

You see @rlvaughn, your shortcoming is not being uber-spiritual like our friend here.

 

[1689Dave]

No disagreement there. However, for example, the birth of babies is part of that decree. Such an event is amazing, awesome, incredible, wonderful, mind-boggling, certainly "miraculous" in the way we often use the word. On the other hand, it is part of God's normal and usual decree of what happens regularly in the course of human events. There is no diminishing of God's glory just because of that. I am not aware that the Bible addresses birth in terms of being a miracle in the way that it does things like parting the Red Sea, giving sight to the blind, or raising the dead -- with the possible exception of some specific births (such as the virgin birth).

I view it as his miraculous providence that takes place apart from his visible cause-and-effect relationships. But we are experiencing one huge all-encompassing miracle in every breath we take.

 

[1689Dave]

You see @rlvaughn, your shortcoming is not being uber-spiritual like our friend here.

I don't understand your insults. Motive?

 

[Alcott]

Are miracles always instantaneous?

Maybe if we're Krafty enough, a Miracle can be Whip.ped up instantly.

How about Jesus' cursing of the fig tree? There is not mention of it withering in a snap there, bu the by the next day as they passed it again it had withered.

 

[SGO]

How about having a book printed with ink on paper, that has the real word of God?

What kind of time period does that involve?

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

How about Moses and the parting of the Red Sea. That and all the people crossing was instantaneous?

Yes, this was brought up earlier and referred to as “both immediate and continuous.” The parting, and perhaps the dry ground, occurred immediately with the wind, but then was a continuous miracle. The waters returning would have been the result of the wind immediately ceasing. As for the chariots swerving or getting stuck, perhaps that had to do with the ground no longer being dry, though the text doesn’t appear to be exact on that. The Egyptians saw it as God fighting for the Israelites.

… Others seem bumfuzzled by instantaneous when it plays out over a period of time or a way that does not come to mind when they think of that word. When Moses stretched out his hand, the Red Sea immediately began to stand up as a wall. The miracle kept on keeping on until all the Israelites had passed over to the other side and the Egyptians piled in after them and God had them right where he wanted them. It was both immediate and continuous.

 

[John of Japan]

How about having a book printed with ink on paper, that has the real word of God?

What kind of time period does that involve?

Really? Where in the Bible did Jesus miraculously print a book on paper? That's not a miracle in the Bible sense, though it may be one, the more broadly defined, in the English languages.

May I suggest that you need a Biblical definition of "miracle"? Here you go, one of the words used for "miracle" as defined by Friberg:

σημεῖον, ου, το (1) basically, as what serves as a pointer to aid perception or insight sign, mark, distinguishing characteristic; (2) as what distinguishes one person or thing from another sign, token, mark (LU 2.12; RO 4.11); (3) as a miraculous event contrary to the usual course of nature and intended as a pointer or means of confirmation, often used with τέρας (wonder) sign (MK 13.22); as a miraculous event resulting from personal action sign, miracle (JN 2.11; RV 13.13 )

 

[John of Japan]

I view it as his miraculous providence that takes place apart from his visible cause-and-effect relationships. But we are experiencing one huge all-encompassing miracle in every breath we take.

No offense, but your definition of "miracle" is the common one in modern English, but more of a rhetorical one, a symbolic one. Please go to the NT for a better definition, one that fits the discussion which is of God's miracles in the Bible. A miracle in the Bible is God reaching down into nature and doing something humanly impossible.

 

[1689Dave]

No offense, but your definition of "miracle" is the common one in modern English, but more of a rhetorical one, a symbolic one. Please go to the NT for a better definition, one that fits the discussion which is of God's miracles in the Bible. A miracle in the Bible is God reaching down into nature and doing something humanly impossible.

Since God is supernatural, and all he does involves a supernatural event. Creation and all he created, right down to your very thoughts are miracles.

 

[John of Japan]

Since God is supernatural, and all he does involves a supernatural event. Creation and all he created, right down to your very thoughts are miracles.

That's defining "miracle" very broadly. In the NT, a miracle is usually a "sign" pointing to something God does, in particular the works of Jesus. Someone thinking a thought is hardly a sign of the works of God, being invisible. Again, another word used in the NT for "miracles" is "wonder." Someone thinking a thought hardly produces the feeling of "wonder" in others.

What you are describing is called by theologians (correctly I believe) Providence, not miracles. Someone thinking of a spectacular method to get the Gospel out is not a miracle, but putting his thought into action might providentially result in many miracles of salvation.

Someone tripping over their feet and breaking an ankle is certainly not a miracle, but it is providential if it results in a positive change towards God by the person being tested or tried in this way.

As a preacher I know used to say, "I thought a thought I think I thought, but the thought I think I thought was not. Next time I think a thought I think I'll write it down in pen and ink."

 

[1689Dave]

That's defining "miracle" very broadly. In the NT, a miracle is usually a "sign" pointing to something God does, in particular the works of Jesus. Someone thinking a thought is hardly a sign of the works of God, being invisible. Again, another word used in the NT for "miracles" is "wonder." Someone thinking a thought hardly produces the feeling of "wonder" in others.

What you are describing is called by theologians (correctly I believe) Providence, not miracles. Someone thinking of a spectacular method to get the Gospel out is not a miracle, but putting his thought into action might providentially result in many miracles of salvation.

Someone tripping over their feet and breaking an ankle is certainly not a miracle, but it is providential if it results in a positive change towards God by the person being tested or tried in this way.

As a preacher I know used to say, "I thought a thought I think I thought, but the thought I think I thought was not. Next time I think a thought I think I'll write it down in pen and ink."

Many miss the big picture straining at the little details. We can make fun of the mysteries of God we don't understand but that is part of his plan for us too.

 

[Yeshua1]

That's defining "miracle" very broadly. In the NT, a miracle is usually a "sign" pointing to something God does, in particular the works of Jesus. Someone thinking a thought is hardly a sign of the works of God, being invisible. Again, another word used in the NT for "miracles" is "wonder." Someone thinking a thought hardly produces the feeling of "wonder" in others.

What you are describing is called by theologians (correctly I believe) Providence, not miracles. Someone thinking of a spectacular method to get the Gospel out is not a miracle, but putting his thought into action might providentially result in many miracles of salvation.

Someone tripping over their feet and breaking an ankle is certainly not a miracle, but it is providential if it results in a positive change towards God by the person being tested or tried in this way.

As a preacher I know used to say, "I thought a thought I think I thought, but the thought I think I thought was not. Next time I think a thought I think I'll write it down in pen and ink."

Apostle John recorded down those signs, as they were miracles done by Lord Jesus to reveal that He was indeed the promised messiah to come!