Are their current forum members who would like to discuss the Sabbath?

[BobRyan]

If your point is to complain that in Lev 11 God forbids the eating of rats, cats, dogs and bats as well as forbidding the eating of clean animals that die of disease and also forbids ripping the limbs off of living animals and eating them in Deut 12:23 as if "Hey look God said lots of things -- if you want to get out of doing what God's Word said - then you need to be careful to toss His Word out the window" -- then fundamentally - you need to find a Bible principle that says "toss God's Word out the window if you want to ignore what He said and get away with it".

By contrast in Matt 5 Christ said that anyone who teaches others to ignore the least part of the Word of God - would be under a curse.

I just don't see how this is making your case "better".

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

1050 commands of God in the New Testament
http://www.puritan-books.com/books/pdf/new_testament_commands.pdf

Well - that means we have another part of God's word "sailing out the window" because of the "too many commands" rule where 613 is "exceeding the limit" for what man can accept from God.

One huge problem - that made up rule is just not a Bible principle -

By contrast in John 14 we have "IF you LOVE Me KEEP My Commandments"
In 1Cor 7:19 "But what matters is KEEPING God's Commandments"
In Rev 14 the saints are descrived as those who "KEEP God's Commandments".

Imagine if the Bible had been written to say "the saints are those who toss out God's Word trying to find a way to IGNORE God's Commandments and get away with it".

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

>But in Acts 15 the Apostles declare that all that is needed to acceptance of "the scriptures" (the O.T text as the Word of God) and worship of the One True God.

OK NOW WE ARE IN AGREEMENT! The people who first studied the scriptures, the OT as the word of God, counted 613 positive and negative statements of the LAW in the OT.

GE:
Until now a days Christianity came along and told us, no more 613 commandments, just the one, Thou shalt keep Sunday, then you're OK.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

My argument is not against the idea that gentiles were being warned against pagan practices.

The OT scriptures condemn pagan practices just as does the NT.

My point is that in Acts 15 the Apostles uphold the teaching of scripture instead of arguing that scripture is invalid for gentiles.

The fact that Leviticus prohibits the same eating of meat with blood in it -- (forbids eathing meat that has been strangled) - would be directed against paganism at the time of Moses just as it was at the time of Acts 15.

I think we can all agree that pagans existed in both the OT and NT.

Acts 15 concludes with Mosaic laws commanded of the Gentiles from the Acts 15 council
Acts 15:28-29 "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden then this - that you ABSTAIN from
- things sacrificed to idols (Exodus 20:1-3)
-and from blood and from things strangled (Gen 9:4, Lev 3:17. Lev 7:26-27)
-and from fornication (Ex 20:14)"

GE:
No fine; now I clearly see your point. It is good!
Jesus Christ is now the embodiment of all the Laws of the OT, whether against unbelievers' malpractices or for believers good practices. That's how I see it; the Christian no longer needs the Law except to magnify Christ the Law of God. But when the Christian magnifies the Law instead of Christ, he's got things the wrong way.

 

[BobRyan]

OK I know this is old news -- but has anyone here carefully read this entire 2008 Worldnet Daily news article on Sabbath vs Sunday?

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=57978

If so - what did you think of it?

in Christ,

Bob

 

[steaver]

If your point is to complain that in Lev 11 God forbids the eating of rats, cats, dogs and bats as well as forbidding the eating of clean animals that die of disease and also forbids ripping the limbs off of living animals and eating them in Deut 12:23 as if "Hey look God said lots of things -- if you want to get out of doing what God's Word said - then you need to be careful to toss His Word out the window" -- then fundamentally - you need to find a Bible principle that says "toss God's Word out the window if you want to ignore what He said and get away with it".

By contrast in Matt 5 Christ said that anyone who teaches others to ignore the least part of the Word of God - would be under a curse.

I just don't see how this is making your case "better".

in Christ,

Bob

Well, there is the doctrine you brought up in another thread. That is if the Holy Spirit has not personally convicted a person that the written command should be honored then they are not held accountable for what they have read in God's Word.

 

[BobRyan]

As I have said about Catholics that worship using images - but are not aware that they are violating the Law of God "to him that knows to do right and does it not - to him it is sin" James 4:17 applies.

It is the Holy Spirit's job to "convict the world of sin and righteousness and judgment". It is our job to share the Word of God with our neighbor.

BTW did you happen to catch that world net daily news article above?

in Christ,

Bob

 

[billwald]

If God did not give us clearer instruction in our official hand book then it must not be important to God.

BTW, I always found work more restful than a house full of kids.

 

[BobRyan]

Did you have time to check out that news article?

If so - what did you think of it?

in Christ,

Bob

 

[steaver]

Did you have time to check out that news article?

If so - what did you think of it?

in Christ,

Bob

I tried, but it would not load, maybe my dial up has something to do with it.

:jesus:

 

[BobRyan]

Lots of picture in that article -- let me see what I can do

==============

'Deception': Christians war over worship day
Centuries-old clash continues over disputed commandment

Posted: March 16, 2008
5:24 pm Eastern
By Joe Kovacs
© 2010 WorldNetDaily

I am deleting the rest of this because it looks like they do not want it copied.

 

[BobRyan]

deleted by me

 

[BobRyan]

deleted by me

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

"'Deception': Christians war over worship day
Centuries-old clash continues over disputed commandment" meanwhile those who really are in control laugh behind the screen. Because they, control, the 'Law of God' supposed to be: They simply write it with their own finger, and all Christianity say Amen! If I were to honoustly believe 'The Bible' to the 'New Versions' I would be a Sunday-keeper and no one on earth would be able to Prove me wrong from the Bible 'and the Bible only' OR 'THE LAW ONLY' --- because 'The Bible' is no longer The Bible, but man's - Sunday-resurrection-believers' - 'Bible'. And the Seventh-day Adventists are as 'brother in the Faith' AS ANY.

 

[billwald]

Eric Liddle was a fanatic. He had no business participating in the first place. I am highly irritated when they sign on for something, anything, that requires working on a specific day of the week and then demand that everyone else bow to their demands.

SEcond, the dispute is not centuries old. It is a 19th century phenomenon.

Third, not one of the 613 statements claim jurisdiction over gentiles in Chicago except those referring to the Noahic Covenant.

 

[BobRyan]

Ther article I am talking about was not written by Eric Liddle -
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=57978

It was written by By Joe Kovacs -- [SIZE=-1]© 2010 WorldNetDaily [/SIZE]

There is a one sentence statement in Kovac's article stating -

Conversely, the 1981 film "Chariots of Fire" was based on the true story of Eric Liddell, a Scottish sprinter and Christian missionary who disqualified himself from his best event at the 1924 Olympics because the race was on Sunday – the Sabbath in his view.

But the article does not even go into that story - it just makes a side reference to the fact that it happened.

Second - if you think that the dispute over the Ten Commandments and over the 4th commandment in particular suddenly came up in the 19th century - you need to spend some more quality time with church history.

Seventh-day Baptists - In 1665, Stephen and Anne Mumford carry the seventh-day Sabbath to the New World.

The edict of Milan 313 A.D is an example of an early assault on Sabbath keeping among Christians.

According to a 5th century historian, Socrates Scholasticus, almost all churches throughout the world celebrated the sacred mysteries on the sabbath every week during those days, except in Alexandria and Rome where the Christians ceased to do this because of ancient traditions. The Romans and the early Christians, in order to avoid the stigma of the Jews, started to worship on Sunday instead on Saturday to avoid “Judaizing”.

This was favorable for the emperor and his pagan followers. So, on March 7, 321 A.D., Constantine decreed that Sunday, the first day of the week be observed as a civic day of rest from ordinary work and business.​

Too much material to post - but imagining that nothing happened until the 19th century seems like a pipe dream.

I recommend reading the details in that article before leaping to wild conclusions.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

There's much true in Billwald's remark; he denies none of those 'old' controversies - some you have mentioned, BobRyan, are NOT 'Sabbath-contorversies' at all, like Constantine's edict.

And Billwald is absolutely right. It was a theme much played on by the SDAs themselves that the 'revival' so to speak of the 'Sabbath-truth' was a world-wide phenomenon in the nineteenth century. Don't try and deny it here. THIS CONTROVERSY SET IN MOTION THE ATTEMPTS MADE WORLD-WIDE TO CHANGE THE SCRIPTURES in the relevent texts like Mt28:1--- a 'movement' heartily joined by the SDAs. I see they use the NIV in their SSLessons on internet, e.g..

I dare the SDA Church to start a 'Quarterly' on the subject! I guarantee they NEVER WILL!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

By the buy; there is an atom bomb going to explode in the SDAChurch this 'Easter-weekend' in South Africa, 'Sedaven' near Heidelberg in the old Transvaal, 'Camp Meeting 2010'-- a spiritual one, just in case they interpret things wrong in this land of ours nowadays. I would not like to be arrested for political unrest; I pray to be God's crocodile in my old age - that one in Job 37 I think that goes under but with the waters raging white like the grey hair of an old man. I hope to stir the waters and rock the boat and turn it over with the help of exactly THESE Scriptures the SDA are participating in to corrupt and manhandle so holily going for two centuries.

 

[BobRyan]

hmm - apparenly - my point "remains".

No challenges in fact to what I stated?

none?

Surely there is an argument to be posted.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

As I see history, the Sabbath 'got lost' for virtually ever, ever after short intervals of Divine intervention during which the Sabbath manifested as God's special day of work to save. So did the Sabbath disappear into oblivion after the apostles and perhaps had been observed here and there by some legalistic enthusiasts ever since. Such recurrence of the Sabbath happened in the nineteenth century; the Sabbath was 'rediscovered' for exactly the Jewish Sabbath it has remained all these centuries by Christians also. "The Law the Law" .... familiar words to every SDA. "As dry as the hills of Gilboa"; another well known phrase to the Sabbatharians.

Christ declared Himself the Light of the world; Jesus Christ is the Light that shines through the whole Word of God; He can only not be the Light of the Sabbath. Because the Law is the light upon and from within the Sabbath. O Father, I thirst! Let me die! Go read those chapters in Ezekiel 44 to 46 thereabouts about the water that flows from the throne of God; and read the Sabbath mentioned also in the context .... for what it may be worth .... I'm so tired ....