Are There Any Verses That Show Predestination to Hell?

[Alan Gross]

Simple question, are there any verses you can point to that say any people are predestined to hell?

Single predestination is clear enough from scripture. At least some, if not all, people who believe are chosen for heaven through predestination. However, to my knowledge there appears not a single verse points to a double destination.

All are going to Hell, under the Wrath of God, already Condemned, and damned.

Out of All of Mankind who are going to Hell, with No Hope, by Adam's sin and their sin in Adam, leaving them dead to God, entirely, some are Chosen by God from Eternity Past, in HIS Eternal Plan of Salvation.

Otherwise, ALL ARE "PREDESTINATED" TO HELL.

Those who Will Not Come to Jesus that they might have Life, judge themselves unworthy of Eternal Life.

This statement is a pure error, so I guess not: "people who believe are chosen for heaven through predestination".

Those Chosen were Predestinated and Given Conviction of their sins through the Word, and Repentance toward God and their previous view of God and their sin against Him, and Faith in Jesus Christ as their Savior from sin, which is Trusting Jesus for the Safe-Keeping of their soul, not just 'consent', or 'decision', or 'choosing', for the word BELIEVE.

There are dozens of Scriptures that Teach those that are "left", after God Chooses who He Will, by The Good Pleasure of His Own Will.

You don't know them?

 

[Alan Gross]

Thank you for a very honest answer. I find I cannot argue there is limited single predestination. Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, and others. Given the scriptures I know on unlimited atonement and God's desire to save all, though, double predestination is a bridge too far. A 4 point Calvinist is Arminian at heart.

Have you ever read a Scripture that says, "God desire to save all"?

 

[Alan Gross]

1) "[What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 and that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?" ( Romans 9:22-24 ).

The vessels of wrath are fitted ( I believe it is in the passive sense, "to fit one's self" ) to destruction.
Yet they are still fitted for it, and the Lord did not prepare them as vessels of mercy before-hand.



2) " But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them." ( 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 ).

Here I see that the Gospel is actively hidden to the lost by Satan.
Yet, the Lord, who rules over His creation from His throne, has the final say in what Satan can and cannot do.

He can either keep allowing Satan to blind people, or make the devil to back off on someone's mind, if He so wishes.
That's why I see this passage as being true in the light of # 2:

" And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all [men], apt to teach, patient,
25 in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 and [that] they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will." ( 2 Timothy 2:24-26 ).




3) " But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
13 and shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, [as] they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots [they are] and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;" ( 2 Peter 2:12-13 ).

In the above, I see that false teachers, as the natural brute beasts that we all are outside of the new birth, are literally made to be taken and destroyed.
They also speak harshly of the things that they do not understand


4) " For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ." ( Jude 1:4 ).

Certain men have crept in among believers, and they have done so with believers being caught unawares.
These men were before of old ordained ( appointed ) to the condemnation...
They are ungodly men who turn the grace of God into something irreverent, and deny Him and the Lord Jesus Christ.

I also believe that this "denial" is in context with Titus 1:6, where false brethren deny, in their actions, that they know the Lord.
"By their fruits ( Galatians 5:19-23 ) ye shall know them" ( per Matthew 7:16 ).

Now, there you go. Leave it to Dave.

 

[Alan Gross]

Simple question, are there any verses you can point to that say any people are predestined to hell?


Single predestination is clear enough from scripture. At least some, if not all, people who believe are chosen for heaven through predestination. However, to my knowledge there appears not a single verse points to a double destination.

from: His By Grace--"John Gill: A Body of Doctrinal & Practical Divinity"-Doctrinal Book 2, Chapter 3

I make use of the word "rejection" in this article, partly because it is a scriptural phrase and ascribed to God, and partly because it is that act of God which gives the name of reprobate to any; and is the foundation of that character, "reprobate silver shall men call them, because the Lord hath rejected them", #Jer 6:30 and stands opposed to election, #1Sa 15:26 10:24 but chiefly because the other word reprobation, through wrong and frightful ideas being affixed to it, carries in it with many a sound harsh and disagreeable;

or otherwise they are of the same signification, and no amendment is made in the doctrine or sense of it, by using the one instead of the other.

This doctrine of rejecting some angels and some men from the divine favour, is spoken of but sparingly in scripture, yet clearly and plainly; though chiefly left to be concluded from that of election, and from whence it most naturally and rationally follows. I shall begin with,



1. The rejection of some of the angels, which consists of two parts:



1a. A non-election, or preterition of them, a passing over them or passing by them, when others were chosen; and which may be concluded from the choice of others; for if some were elect, others must be non-elect;

if some were chosen, others were not; if some were taken, others must be passed by and left: that some of them are elect is certain, they are expressly called "elect angels", #1Ti 5:21 and consequently are distinguished from others who are not elected;

or otherwise the title and character of "elect" must be insignificant and impertinent.

Both these were considered alike, upon an equal foot, when the one were elected, and the other not; they were viewed as not yet created and fallen, but as lying in the pure mass of creatureship or creability;

God saw in his power what creatures of this kind he could produce into being, as he also saw in his will whom he would; and of those he could and would create, he determined to choose some and leave others, and both for his own glory;

for they could not be considered as fallen creatures, or in the corrupt mass, since the elect angels never fell;

and the moment they were elected, the others were passed by or rejected;

and so must be under the same consideration;

and consequently the election of the one, and the rejection of the other, must be wholly owing to the sovereign will of God: both these were brought into being as God determined they should, and are equally his creatures, #Ps 104:4 and were both made pure and holy creatures, angels of light, bright morning stars, shining in the purity and holiness of their nature;

for such were Satan and his angels in their original creation;

the devil, our Lord says, "abode not in the truth", #Joh 8:44 which implies that he had been in the truth, though he continued not in it;

in his allegiance and fidelity to God his creator; in his integrity, purity, and holiness, as a creature of veracity;

but framing lies, he became the father of them.

What he was in, but abode not in, is the "first estate", of integrity, innocence, and happiness, in which he was created, but kept it not, #Jude 1:6.

To some angels God decreed to give, and did give grace to confirm them in the state in which they were created; these are the elect angels, who are said to be "mighty", and to "excel in strength"; not only in natural, but in spiritual strength.

To others he decreed not to give confirming grace, but to deny it to them; and which he was not obliged to give, it being what could not be challenged by the laws and dues of creation, and was mere favour to those on whom it was bestowed;

wherefore the others were left to the mutability of their will, which is that weakness and folly the angels were chargeable with in their creation state, #Job 4:18 hence of their own freewill they sinned and fell, and left their habitation, #2Pe 2:4 Jude 1:6 what their sin was by which they fell, will be considered in course, when we come to the fall of Adam, and of theirs;

this leads on to observe the other part of the decree respecting them.

 

[Alan Gross]

from: His By Grace--"John Gill: A Body of Doctrinal & Practical Divinity"-Doctrinal Book 2, Chapter 3

1b. The appointment of them to wrath and damnation;

in this they were viewed as sinful, fallen creatures;

this decree is meant by their being "reserved in everlasting chains under darkness, unto the judgment of the great day", #Jude 1:6 2Pe 2:4 for by chains are meant the purposes and decrees of God, by which they are bound and held fast, and from which they cannot loose themselves;

and as the decrees of God are called "mountains of brass", #Zec 6:1 so they may be called chains of iron and brass for the same reasons;

namely, their firmness, mutability, and duration;

they are "everlasting" chains, and in these they are reserved under darkness; meaning either the state of darkness in which they are, being deprived of that light and knowledge they had; and also being under horror and black despair, without the least gleam of the light of joy and comfort;

or that state of darkness to which they are appointed and reserved, even that "blackness of darkness" to which the wandering stars, as these may be said to be, are reserved, #Jude 1:13 and moreover they are appointed and reserved "to the judgment of the great day", to the great day of the last judgment; when they will be brought forth in chains before the judgment seat of Christ, and will have their final sentence passed and executed on them, which as yet seems not to have been done, #Mt 8:29 then will Christ sit on the throne of judgment, and saints will stand by, together with the good angels, as approvers of the righteous sentence: and therefore saints are said to "judge angels", as well as the world of the ungodly, #1Co 6:2,3 that is, the evil angels, to which judgment they are appointed by the decree of God;

and to endure eternal wrath and damnation;

signified by "everlasting fire, prepared", in the decrees and purposes of God, "for the devil and his angels", #Mt 25:41.

I proceed to, con't:

 

[Alan Gross]

1b. The appointment of them to wrath and damnation;


I proceed to, con't:

2. The decree concerning the rejection of some of the sons of men.

It may be observed, that we can hear and read of the non-election and rejection of angels, and of their preordination to condemnation and wrath, with very little emotion of mind: the devils may be cast down to hell, to be everlastingly damned, and be appointed thereunto, and it gives no great concern; no hard thoughts against God arise, no charge of cruelty, want of kindness to his creatures and offspring, and of injustice to them;

but if anything of this kind is hinted at, with respect to any of the apostate sons of Adam, presently there is an outcry against it;

and all the above things are suggested.

What is the reason of this difference?

It can be only this, that the latter comes nearer home, and more nearly affects us;

it is partiality to ourselves, our nature, and race, to which this is owing;

otherwise, far greater severity, if it may be so called, is exercised on fallen angels, than on fallen man; for God has not spared one of the angels that sinned, provided no saviour for them, nor so much as given them the means of grace; but consigned them all over at once to everlasting wrath and ruin: whereas, not only a Saviour is provided for fallen men, and means of grace allowed them, but thousands, and ten thousands, millions and millions of them are saved, by the abundant mercy and grace of God, through Christ.

But to go on, con't:

 

[Reynolds]

So God ordains and determines/causes us to sin, which would be against his very nature?

You sound like an Arminian.

 

[Alan Gross]

2. The decree concerning the rejection of some of the sons of men.
:

2a. First, I shall prove that there is a non-election, or rejection of some of the sons of men, when others were chosen;

and, indeed, from the election of some, may fairly be inferred, the non-election of others. Common sense tells us, that of persons or things, if some are chosen, others must be left: if there is a remnant of the sons of men, according to the election of grace, then there are others not included in it, which are left unchosen, and are called the rest.

"The election", that is, elect men, "hath obtained it", righteousness and eternal life; "and the rest were blinded", #Ro 11:5,7. Our Lord says, "I speak not of you all; I know whom I have chosen", #Joh 13:18 plainly intimating, that all were not chosen, and it is certain one was not, and whom he calls "the son of perdition";

one, not only deserving of it, but appointed to it;

for though chosen to an office, as an apostle, yet not to grace and glory, #Joh 17:12 and how many such there be, no man can pretend to say;

but it is evident there are some, and who are generally described by negative characters; as not known by God and Christ;

the elect are God's people, whom he knows;

they are elect, according to his foreknowledge;

which carries in it love and affection to them;

but of others Christ says, "I never knew you";

he knew them by his omniscience, but not with such knowledge as he knows the elect of God; he never knew them as the objects of his Father's love, and his own;

he never knew them as the objects of his Father's choice, and his own;

he never knew them in the gift of his Father to him, #Mt 7:23 hence they are represented as "not" loved, which is meant by being hated: "Esau have I hated";

that is, had not loved him, as he had Jacob;

for it cannot be understood of positive hatred, for God hates none of his creatures, as such, only as workers of iniquity; but of negative hatred, or of not loving him;

which, in comparison of the love he bore to Jacob, might be called hatred: in which sense the word is used in #Lu 14:26.

Moreover, they are spoken of as "not" being given to Christ; for if there are some that are "given" to him "out of the world", then there must be a world which are not given, and for whom he has not so much concern as even to pray for them, #Joh 17:6,9

they are frequently described, as not having their names written, and not to be found written in the Lamb's book of life, #Re 13:8 17:8 20:15.

Now as election is signified by the writing of names in the book of life, non-election is expressed by not writing the names of some there;

and if those whose names are written there, are the elect, then those whose names are not written these, but are left out, must be non-elect: to which may be added, that our Lord says of these persons,

"Ye are not of my sheep",

and gives this as a reason why they believed not in him, #Joh 10:26.

But the goats he will place on his left hand, pass sentence of condemnation on them, and send them into everlasting punishment, #Mt 25:33,41,46.

 

[Reynolds]

"God preordained, for his own glory and the display of His attributes of mercy and justice, a part of the human race, without any merit of their own, to eternal salvation, and another part, in just punishment of their sin, to eternal damnation."
John Calvin

 

[Steven Yeadon]

Have you ever read a Scripture that says, "God desire to save all"?

Romans 11:32 NASB
32 For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.

2 Peter 3:9 NASB
9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

1 Timothy 2:3-4 NASB
3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the [c]knowledge of the truth.

Matthew 23:37 NASB
37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.

Ezekiel 18:23 NASB
Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked,” declares the Lord God, “[k]rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?

Ezekiel 18:32 NASB
"For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies," declares the Lord GOD. "Therefore, repent and live."

Ezekiel 33:11 NASB
"Say to them, 'As I live!' declares the Lord GOD, 'I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn back, turn back from your evil ways! Why then will you die, O house of Israel?'

Lamentations 3:33 NASB
For He does not afflict willingly
Or grieve the sons of men.

Acts 17:30 NASB
"Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent,

 

[Alan Gross]

Romans 11:32 NASB
32 For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.

2 Peter 3:9 NASB
9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

1 Timothy 2:3-4 NASB
3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the [c]knowledge of the truth.

Matthew 23:37 NASB
37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.

Ezekiel 18:23 NASB
Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked,” declares the Lord God, “[k]rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?

Ezekiel 18:32 NASB
"For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies," declares the Lord GOD. "Therefore, repent and live."

Ezekiel 33:11 NASB
"Say to them, 'As I live!' declares the Lord GOD, 'I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn back, turn back from your evil ways! Why then will you die, O house of Israel?'

Lamentations 3:33 NASB
For He does not afflict willingly
Or grieve the sons of men.

Acts 17:30 NASB
"Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent,

Alas! Behold! Is it possible?

You must have misunderstood them.

Irressistible Grace #2

The parts of this decree, concerning the rejection of men, are commonly said to be preterition and pre-damnation.

His By Grace--"John Gill: A Body of Doctrinal & Practical Divinity"-Doctrinal Book 2, Chapter 3

2b1. Preterition is God's passing by some men, when he chose others: and in this act, or part of the decree, men are considered as in the pure mass of creatureship, or creability;

in which state they are found when passed by or rejected, and in which they are left, even just as they are found, nothing put into them; but were left in the pure mass, as they lay, and so no injury is done them;

nor is God to be charged with any injustice towards them: in this act sin comes not into consideration, as it does in a following one;

for in this men are considered as not created, and so not fallen; but as unborn, and having done neither good nor evil, #Ro 9:11.

And this is a pure act of sovereignty in God, and to his sovereign will it is to be ascribed; who has the same sovereign power, and greater, than the potter has over his clay, to make one vessel to honor, and another to dishonor, #Ro 9:19,20,22.

This being expressed, as before observed, by negative phrases, is, by some, called negative reprobation.

Pre-damnation is God's appointment, or preordination of men to condemnation for sin; and is what is spoken of in #Jude 1:4.

"There are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation";

and who are described by the following characters,

"ungodly men, turning the grace of God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and, or even our Lord Jesus Christ";

which, when observed, is sufficient to clear this decree of God from the charge of cruelty and injustice: and this, by some, is called, positive reprobation.

The word krima, translated "condemnation", in the above quoted text, some render "judgment", and interpret it of judicial blindness and hardness of heart; which appeared in the persons embracing and spreading false and pernicious doctrines spoken of;

and this is, indeed, what they are foreordained, or appointed to, as a punishment of former sins; for this hardness, &c. presupposes former sins, and an obstinately continued course in them;

either against the light and law of nature, which they like not to walk according to, and therefore God gives them up, pursuant to his decree, to a reprobate mind, to do things not convenient, #Ro 1:24,28

or against divine revelation, precepts, counsels, and admonitions, like Israel of old, hearkening not to the voice of the Lord, in his word, nor paying any regard to his instructions; and therefore he gives them up, as he determined to do, to their own hearts' lusts, and to walk in their own counsels, #Ps 81:11,12

and this is the sense of the word in #Joh 9:39.

God hardens some mens' hearts, as he did Pharaoh's, and he wills to harden them, or he hardens them according to his decreeing will;

"Whom he will he hardeneth", #Ro 9:18

this he does not by any positive act, by infusing hardness and blindness into the hearts of men;

which is contrary to his purity and holiness, and would make him the author of sin;

but by leaving men to their natural blindness and hardness of heart;

for the understanding is naturally darkened;

and there is natural blindness, hardness, and callousness of heart, through the corruption of nature, and which is increased by habits of sinning; men are in darkness, and choose to walk in it;

and therefore God, as he decreed, gives them up to their own wills and desires, and to Satan, the god of the world, they choose to follow and to be led captive by, who blinds their minds yet more and more, lest the light should break in unto them, #Eph 4:18 #Ps 82:5 2Co 4:4

and also God may be said to harden and blind, by denying them that grace which can only cure them of their hardness and blindness, and which he, of his free favor, gives to his chosen ones, #Eze 36:26,27

but is not obliged to give it to any;

and because he gives it not, he is said to hide, as he determined to hide, the things of his grace from the wise and prudent, even because it so seemed good in his sight, #Mt 11:25,26.

 

[Alan Gross]

Alas! Behold! Is it possible?

You must have misunderstood them.

Irressistible Grace #2

The parts of this decree, concerning the rejection of men, are commonly said to be preterition and pre-damnation.

His By Grace--"John Gill: A Body of Doctrinal & Practical Divinity"-Doctrinal Book 2, Chapter 3

2b1. Preterition is God's passing by some men, when he chose others: and in this act, or part of the decree, men are considered as in the pure mass of creatureship, or creability;

in which state they are found when passed by or rejected, and in which they are left, even just as they are found, nothing put into them; but were left in the pure mass, as they lay, and so no injury is done them;

nor is God to be charged with any injustice towards them: in this act sin comes not into consideration, as it does in a following one;

for in this men are considered as not created, and so not fallen; but as unborn, and having done neither good nor evil, #Ro 9:11.

And this is a pure act of sovereignty in God, and to his sovereign will it is to be ascribed; who has the same sovereign power, and greater, than the potter has over his clay, to make one vessel to honor, and another to dishonor, #Ro 9:19,20,22.

This being expressed, as before observed, by negative phrases, is, by some, called negative reprobation.

Pre-damnation is God's appointment, or preordination of men to condemnation for sin; and is what is spoken of in #Jude 1:4.

"There are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation";


"ungodly men, turning the grace of God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and, or even our Lord Jesus Christ";


"Whom he will he hardeneth", #Ro 9:18

.

Just called it, "Damned", or "Damnation".

"Damnation" is their Heritage.

His By Grace--"John Gill: A Body of Doctrinal & Practical Divinity"-Doctrinal Book 2, Chapter 3

Hence this blindness, hardness, insensibility, and stupidity, are represented as following upon non-election;

not as the immediate effect of it, but as consequences of it;

and such as neither judgments nor mercies can remove;

and bring persons to a right sense of sin, and repentance for it, #Ro 11:7-10.

The sin and fall of Adam having brought him into a state of infidelity, in which God has concluded him: and he does not think fit to give to every man that grace which can only cure him of his unbelief, and without which, and unless almighty power and grace go along with the means they have, they cannot believe; whereby the decrees, predictions, and declarations of God are fulfilled in them, #Joh 12:37-40

yea, as Christ is said to be set, or appointed, "for the fall of many in Israel", #Lu 2:34 so many are appointed to stumble at the Word, at him, the Stone of stumbling, and Rock of offence, being children of disobedience, and left as such;

when, to those who are a chosen generation, he is a precious cornerstone, and they believe in him, and are saved by him, #1Pe 2:7-9

hence we read of some, who, because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved, to them are sent by God strong delusions, and they are given up to believe a lie, that they might be damned;

not that God infuses any delusion or deceit into them, but because of their disbelief of, and disrespect to him and his Word, he suffers their corruptions to break forth and prevail, not giving restraining grace to them;

so that they become a prey to them that lie in wait to deceive; and being easy and credulous, they believe lies spoken in hypocrisy;

which issue in their damnation; while others, beloved of the Lord, and chosen from the beginning to salvation, obtain the glory of Christ, #2Th 2:10-14.

But though all this is a most certain truth, and is contained in the decree we are speaking of, yet condemnation, or everlasting punishment, seems to be meant in the passage quoted; or, however, this is what some men are foreordained unto.

Some will have it, that this refers to something forewritten, as they choose to render the word; to some prophecy concerning the condemnation of those persons, and particularly to that of Enoch, #Jude 1:14,15

but it is not certain that prophecy was ever written;

besides, a prophecy, or prediction, of anything future, is founded upon an antecedent predetermination and appointment;

God foretells by his prophets what will be, because he has determined it shall be;

if, therefore, the condemnation of those persons was foretold in any written prophecy, it was because God had decreed it should come upon them, or they be brought into it.

It seems to have the same sense with God's appointing men unto wrath; which, though not in so many words expressed, is manifestly implied; as when the apostle says,

"God hath not appointed us to wrath",

who yet were children of wrath, and deserving of it as others;

"but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ":

it suggests, that though he had not appointed them, yet he had appointed others to wrath, and who are therefore called

"vessels of wrath, fitted for destruction",

by their own sins and transgressions, #1Th 5:9 Ro 9:22.

With which agrees what is said of some wicked men, who are

"reserved" in the purposes and decrees of God,

"to the day of destruction";

in consequence of which,

"they shall be brought to the day of wrath",

which God has appointed for the execution of his wrath;

and hence the casting of the fury of his wrath, in all the dreadful instances of it, is called

"the portion of a wicked man from God, and the heritage appointed;
unto him of God", #Job 21:30 20:23-29

and this is the sense of #Pr 16:4

for the meaning of the text is not, nor is it our sense of it, as some misrepresent it, as if God made man to damn him;

we say no such thing, nor does the text;

our sentiment is, that God made man neither to damn nor save him;

but he made him for his own glory, and he will be glorified in him, in one way or another: nor that he made man wicked, in order to damn him;

for God made man upright;

men made themselves wicked by their own inventions;

which are the cause of damnation: but the true sense of the passage is, that

"the Lord hath made", that is, has appointed "all things for himself", for his own glory: and should it be objected, that the wicked could not be for his glory, it is added,

"Yea, even the wicked for the day of evil";

that is, he has appointed the wicked for the day of evil,
to suffer justly for their sins, to the illustration of the glory of his justice.

 

[Alan Gross]

Just called it, "Damned", or "Damnation".

"Damnation" is their Heritage.

His By Grace--"John Gill: A Body of Doctrinal & Practical Divinity"-Doctrinal Book 2, Chapter 3

Hence this blindness, hardness, insensibility, and stupidity, are represented as following upon non-election

God has "endured the vessels of wrath, fitted to destruction".

2c. Thirdly, The causes of this act.



2c1. The efficient cause is God;

it is the Lord, that makes all things for his own glory, and the wicked for the day of evil;

it is God that appoints to wrath, and foreordains to condemnation;

what if "God willing to show his wrath", &c. #Pr 16:4 1Th 5:9 Ro 9:22. And,



2c1a. It is an act of his sovereignty, who does what he pleases in heaven and in earth;

he does according to his will in the armies of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth;

as he does all things, so this, according to the counsel of his will;

for though it is sovereign, it is not in such sense arbitrary as to be without reason and wisdom;

it is a wise counsel of his, for his own glory.

The objector, introduced by the apostle, supposes this, that it is an act of his sovereign will; and therefore says,

"Why does he yet find fault? for who hath resisted his will?" and which the apostle denies not, but reasons upon it, and confirms it, #Ro 9:19-22.



2c1b. It is agreeable to his justice: the same apostle treating on this subject asks,

"Is there unrighteousness with God?"

that is, to love one and hate another, to choose one and not another, before they were born, or had done good or evil; and he answers, "God forbid";

since in his act of passing by one, when he chose another, he left him as he found him, without putting, or supposing, any iniquity in him;

without any charge of any sin or laying him under a necessity to commit any.

In the act of pre-damnation, he considers him as a sinner, and foreordains him to punishment for his sins;

and if it is no injustice in God to punish men for sin, it cannot be unjust in him to determine to punish for it: if the judgments of God on antichrist are true and righteous, and display his holiness and justice, it cannot be unrighteous in him to decree to inflict these judgments on him, and his followers, here and hereafter: if it is a righteous thing with God to render tribulation to them that trouble his people, and so to them that commit any other sin, it must be agreeable to his justice to appoint them to indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish; even every soul of man that does evil, if he pleases.



2c1c. Nor is this act contrary to his goodness;

all persons and things are his own, and he may do with them as he pleases, without impeachment of this or any other perfection of his; "Is thine eye evil", says he, "because I am good?" #Mt 20:15.

What distinguishing grace and goodness has been exercised towards fallen man, when no degree of sparing mercy was shown to fallen angels!

and what goodness has been laid up, and wrought out, for many of the sons of Adam, though others have been rejected!

and even on them that are rejected, what riches of providential goodness have been, and are bestowed on them, in the most plentiful and liberal manner!

with what lenity, patience, forbearance, and "longsuffering",

has God "endured the vessels of wrath, fitted to destruction", fitted by themselves! #Ro 2:4 9:22.

This act of God is neither contrary to the mercy, nor to the wisdom of God, nor to the truth and sincerity of God, in his promises, declarations, calls, &c. nor to the holiness and justice of God.

 

[Alan Gross]

Romans 11:32 NASB
32 For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.
,

Romans 11:32 NASB
32 For God has shut up all in disobedience ( some Jews and some Gentiles) so that He may show mercy to all ( some Jews and some Gentiles).

2 Peter 3:9 NASB
9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

"but is patient toward you", = those he is speaking to that are Saved.

1 Timothy 2:3-4 NASB
3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men ( not exclusively The Jews, as is Taught, over and over, in The New Testament, but also The Gentiles) to be saved and to come to the [c]knowledge of the truth.

Matthew 23:37 NASB
37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.

"God Has No Pleasure in the Death of The Wicked".

Ezekiel 18:23 NASB
Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked,” declares the Lord God, “[k]rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?

"God Has No Pleasure in the Death of The Wicked".

Ezekiel 18:32 NASB
"For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies," declares the Lord GOD. "Therefore, repent and live."

"God Has No Pleasure in the Death of The Wicked".

Ezekiel 33:11 NASB
"Say to them, 'As I live!' declares the Lord GOD, 'I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn back, turn back from your evil ways! Why then will you die, O house of Israel?'

"God Has No Pleasure in the Death of The Wicked".

Lamentations 3:33 NASB
For He does not afflict willingly
Or grieve the sons of men.

"For he doth not afflict willingly,".... Or, "from his heart" (e);

he does afflict;

for all afflictions are from God, but they do not come from the mere motion of his heart, or are the effects of his sovereign will and pleasure, as the good things he bestows upon his people do, without any respect to any cause or occasion in them; but sin is the cause and occasion of these, as Jarchi well observes: it is with reluctance the Lord afflicts his people; he is as it were forced to it, speaking after the manner of men; see Hosea 11:8;

he does not do it with delight and pleasure; he delights in mercy, but judgment is his strange act; nor does he do it with all his heart and soul, with all his might and strength; he does not stir up all his wrath: for then the spirit would fail before him, and the souls that he has made; and especially he does not do it out of ill will, but in love, and for their good:

nor grieve the children of men: that is, he does not from his heart, or willingly, grieve the children of men, by, afflicting them; which must be understood of those sons of men whom he has loved, and made his sons and heirs; those sons of men that wisdom's delights were with from everlasting, Proverbs 8:31.

(e) "ex corde suo", Pagninus, Montanus, Calvin.

Lamentations 3 Gill's Exposition


Acts 17:30 NASB
"Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent,

"And the times of this ignorance God winked at,.... Not that he approved of, or encouraged such blindness and folly, as appeared among the Gentiles, when they worshipped idols of gold, silver, and stone, taking them for deities;

"but rather the sense is, he despised this, and them for it, and was displeased and angry with them; and as an evidence of such contempt and indignation, he overlooked them, and took no notice of them, and gave them no revelation to direct them, nor prophets to instruct them, and left them to their stupidity and ignorance:

"but now commandeth all men everywhere to repent;

"that is, he hath given orders, that the doctrine of repentance, as well as remission of sins, should be preached to all nations, to Gentiles as well as Jews;

" and that it becomes them to repent of their idolatries, and turn from their idols, and worship the one, only, living and true God: and though for many hundreds of years God had neglected them, and sent no messengers, nor messages to them, to acquaint them with his will, and to show them their follies and mistakes; yet now he had sent his apostles unto them, to lay before them their sins, and call them to repentance; and to stir them up to this, the apostle informs them of the future judgment in the following verse.

Repentance being represented as a command does not suppose it to be in the power of men...."

Acts 17 Gill's Exposition

 

[Alan Gross]

"God preordained, for his own glory and the display of His attributes of mercy and justice, a part of the human race, without any merit of their own, to eternal salvation, and another part, in just punishment of their sin, to eternal damnation."
John Calvin

EXACTLY:

It is a Justest and Righteous Decree; and no other but such can be Made by God, Who is Righteous in all His Ways, and Holy in all His Works.

From:His By Grace--"John Gill: A Body of Doctrinal & Practical Divinity"-Doctrinal Book 2, Chapter 3

The date of this decree is as ancient as eternity itself;

wicked men are "before of old", said to be "ordained to condemnation", #Jude 1:4.

Some who would have the word rendered, "before written", as already observed, suppose the text refers to a written prophecy, concerning the condemnation of those men, and that regard is had to a parallel place in #2Pe 2:1-3. So Grotius.

But if Jude had that in his view, he would never have said that they were "of old", a long time ago, before written, and prophesied of;

since, according to the common calculation, that epistle of Peter was written in the same year that this of Jude's was: the date of election and rejection must be the same;

Esau was hated, as early as Jacob was loved, or rejected when he was chosen;

and both were done before they were born.

If men were chosen from the beginning, that is, from eternity to salvation;

then those that were not chosen, or not ordained to eternal life, were foreordained as early to condemnation;

and so is the Syriac version of the text in Jude, "were from the beginning ordained"; the same date that is given of election in #2Th 2:13.

And, indeed, there can be no new decree, appointment, or purpose, made by God in time;

if the decree of election was from eternity, that of rejection must be so too;

since there cannot be one without the other;

if some were chosen before the foundation of the world, others must be left, or passed by, as early;

and, indeed, those whose names are left out of the book of life, are expressly said to be "not written in the book of life, from the foundation of the world", #Re 17:8. And from the whole,



2e. Fifthly, The properties of this decree will appear to be much the same with those of the decree of election, and need be but just mentioned: as,



2e1. That it is an eternal decree of God. This did not arise in the mind of God in time, as no new act does, but was made before the foundation of the world.



2e2. That it is free and sovereign, owing to his own will and pleasure, not moved to it by anything out of himself;

"He hath mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth",

#Ro 9:18 and so he determined to do.



2e3. It is immutable and irrevocable;

is it expressed by a decree, a preordination?

all the decrees of God are unalterable, there is an immutability in his counsel, let it be concerning what it may.

Is it expressed by a writing or a forewriting, as in #Jude 1:4?

It is such a writing as ever remains in full force.

Did Pilate say, "what I have written, I have written", signifying it should remain without any alteration? #Joh 19:22.

Then it may be concluded, that what God has written shall remain, and never be revoked; for he is in one mind, and none can turn him.



2e4. It is of particular persons;

it does not merely respect events, characters, and actions;

but the persons of men;

as they are persons who are chosen in Christ, and appointed, not to wrath, but to obtain salvation by him;

so they are persons who are foreordained to condemnation, whose names are left out of the book of life, while others are written in it.



2e5. It is a Justest and Righteous Decree; and no other but such can be Made by God, Who is Righteous in all His Ways, and Holy in all His Works.

 

[Dave G]

Have you ever read a Scripture that says, "God desire to save all"?

Yes, I have.
But I don't agree with it's usage, as taken by itself, it is used as a "proof text" in what I see as a vain attempt to dismiss God's choice of the sinner to salvation:

" I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, [and] giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 for kings, and [for] all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3 For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, [and] lie not a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity." ( 1 Timothy 2:1-7 ).

To me, the "all men" in verse 1 is further defined by verse 2...
For kings and for all that are in authority.

In verse 4, I understand, in context with "world" and "all men" found in other parts of God's word, that this salvation is with regard to whom He has mercy and compassion on ( Romans 9:14-16 ) and are the vessels of mercy, afore prepared unto glory in Romans 9:22-24.
That few, relatively speaking, of all men will be saved...
and that it is because of the election of grace wherein a remnant of both Israel and each and every tongue, tribe and nation will act as a "seed".

Those representatives, known as Christ's sheep, are the "all men", at least to me.

In addition, 1 Timothy 2:4 by itself not only fails to address the one thing that makes its usage a proof text in favor of so-called human ability accurate, but it leads to a non-Scriptural answer to these questions:

Why do some believe and others do not?
What is stopping the Lord from having all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth?

Both of these are assumed, in my estimation, by those who maintain that God "resets" man's will when they hear the Gospel, and allows them to make the choice to either accept or reject Christ.

 

[Alan Gross]

Yes, I have.
But I don't agree with it's usage, as taken by itself, it is used as a "proof text" in what I see as a vain attempt to dismiss God's choice of the sinner to salvation:

.

all sorts of men, agreeably to the use of the phrase in 1 Timothy 2:1 are here intended, kings and peasants, rich and poor, bond and free, male and female, young and old, greater and lesser sinners;

That is what is called, "context", isn't it?

Who will have all sorts of men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth, I Timonthy 2:4, such as all sorts of, and all kinds of, kings and peasants, rich and poor, bond and free, male and female, young and old, greater and lesser sinners; 1 Timothy 2:1

THAT'S BIBLE.

This is Gill. One of his many qualities is in expressing any number of "things" the Passage DOES NOT MEAN, and why.

1 Timothy 2 Gill's Exposition

"Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."

Who will have all men to be saved,....

The salvation which God wills that all men should enjoy,
is not a mere possibility of salvation,
or a mere putting them into a salvable state;

or an offer of salvation to them;
or a proposal of sufficient means of it to all in his word;

but The salvation which God wills that all men should enjoy,

a real, certain, and actual salvation, which he has determined they shall have;

and is sure from his own appointment, from the provision of Christ as a Saviour for them, from the covenant of grace, in which everything is secured necessary for it, and from the mission of Christ to effect it, and from its being effected by him:

wherefore the will of God, that all men should be saved,
is not a conditional will, or what depends on the will of man,
or on anything to be performed by him,

for then none might be saved;

and if any should, it would be of him that willeth, contrary to the express words of Scripture;

but
The salvation which God wills that all men should enjoy,
is an absolute and unconditional will respecting their salvation, and which infallibly secures it:

nor is it such a will as is distinguishable into antecedent and consequent;
with the former of which it is said,
God wills the salvation of all men, as they are his creatures,
and the work of his hands;

and with the latter he wills, or not wills it,
according to their future conduct and behaviour;

but the will of God concerning man's salvation is entirely one, invariable, unalterable, and unchangeable:

nor is
the will of God concerning man's salvation
merely his will of approbation or complacency,
which expresses only what would be grateful and well pleasing, should it be, and which is not always fulfilled;

but
the will of God concerning man's salvation
is his ordaining, purposing, and determining will, which is never resisted, so as to be frustrated, but is always accomplished:

the will of God, the sovereign and unfrustrable will of God,
has the governing sway and influence in the salvation of men;

the governing sway and influence in the salvation of men;
rises from the will of God, the sovereign and unfrustrable will of God,
, and is according to it; and all who are saved God wills they should be saved;

nor are any saved, but whom he wills they should be saved:

hence by all men, whom God would have saved,

cannot be meant every individual of mankind,
since it is not his will that all men, in this large sense, should be saved, unless there are two contrary wills in God;

for there are some who were before ordained by him unto condemnation, and are vessels of wrath fitted for destruction;

and it is his will concerning some, that they should believe a lie, that they all might be damned;

nor is it fact that all are saved, as they would be, if it was his will they should;

for who hath resisted his will? but there is a world of ungodly men that will be condemned, and who will go into everlasting punishment:

rather therefore all sorts of men, agreeably to the use of the phrase in 1 Timothy 2:1 are here intended, kings and peasants, rich and poor, bond and free, male and female, young and old, greater and lesser sinners;

 

[George Antonios]

Single predestination is clear enough from scripture. At least some, if not all, people who believe are chosen for heaven through predestination.

Brother, that is absolutely never to be found in the Bible.

Predestination is never, ever, ever, that of lost man unto salvation.
Predestination is always that of a saved man unto a glorified Christ's-image-bearing resurrection body.
That's what you get if you let the scriptures speak for themselves, in context, and with defining cross-references, without looking at them through any theologically-coloured glasses.

This study proves, diligently, and scripturally, the following:

1. No verse ever clearly specifies when predestination (not election) occurs
2. There is no predestination unto salvation in the Bible
3. Predestination is always unto adoption (not salvation)
4. Adoption is the redemption of the body (not the soul)
5. Adoption occurs at the resurrection
6. Adoption is a blessing accompanying salvation but not salvation itself

I would really like your thoughts on the following:

 

[Alan Gross]

Brother, that is absolutely never to be found in the Bible.

Predestination is never, ever, ever, that of lost man unto salvation.
Predestination is always that of a saved man unto a glorified Christ's-image-bearing resurrection body.
That's what you get if you let the scriptures speak for themselves, in context, and with defining cross-references, without looking at them through any theologically-coloured glasses.

This study proves, diligently, and scripturally, the following:

1. No verse ever clearly specifies when predestination (not election) occurs
2. There is no predestination unto salvation in the Bible
3. Predestination is always unto adoption (not salvation)
4. Adoption is the redemption of the body (not the soul)
5. Adoption occurs at the resurrection
6. Adoption is a blessing accompanying salvation but not salvation itself

I would really like your thoughts on the following:

This gives us further herculean-ly strained wildness to add to Gill's list of, "nor is it".

How many years did it take Satan to come up with this rotten far-fetched garbage?

2020?

 

[SavedByGrace]

The teaching of Double Predestination, is a gross misrepesentation of the Gospel, and insult to the life and death of the Lord Jesus Christ for lost sinners, and alien to the teachings of the Holy Bible. However, the Bible is very clear what God actually says of the lost sinners for whom Christ died. "The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance" (2 Peter 3:9). Verse 3 tells us who the YOU and ALL includes, "knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires". This same God tells us in Ezekiel 18:23, "Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord GOD, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?". The word "pleasure" is from the Hebrew, "châphêts", which is, "to will, to desire"; which is against the heart of God, and the Gospel. It is very clear that God desires that the wicked person , turn from their evil ways (repent), and trust in Jesus as their Saviour, have have the free gift of eternal life!