Are There Any Verses That Show Predestination to Hell?

[Alan Gross]

The teaching of Double Predestination, is a gross misrepesentation of the Gospel, and insult to the life and death of the Lord Jesus Christ for lost sinners, and alien to the teachings of the Holy Bible. However, the Bible is very clear what God actually says of the lost sinners for whom Christ died. "The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance" (2 Peter 3:9). Verse 3 tells us who the YOU and ALL includes, "knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires". This same God tells us in Ezekiel 18:23, "Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord GOD, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?". The word "pleasure" is from the Hebrew, "châphêts", which is, "to will, to desire"; which is against the heart of God, and the Gospel. It is very clear that God desires that the wicked person , turn from their evil ways (repent), and trust in Jesus as their Saviour, have have the free gift of eternal life!

The Words God Wrote in, 2 Peter 3:9 that might be important to it's understanding.

"toward you"

Everything that is said, is directed at Saved Individuals, to whom "toward you", is said in the Passage.

"The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any of you* should perish, but that all of you* should reach repentance" (2 Peter 3:9).

of you* added for clarity.




"Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord GOD, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?".

""The word "pleasure" is from the Hebrew, "châphêts", which is, "to will, to desire"; which is against the heart of God,""

You missed it, when you jumped from "to will, to desire" and gave that to mean "the heart of God".

The desire and will to punish the sinner is just Universal Justice and does extend to the Heart of God's Affection.

"But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doth, shall he live?

"all his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned;

"in his trespass that he hath trespassed,

"and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die". - Ezekiel 18:24.

This scripture is placed at the front of those which are said "expressly to assert the possibility, that true believers, true penitents, men truly just and righteous, may fall from their righteousness, and die in their iniquity."

1. The man here spoken of, is not one truly just and righteous; seeing he is denominated righteous from his own righteousness in which he trusted, and from which he is supposed to turn.

The man here designed, is one that is outwardly righteous before men; who imagines himself to be so; trusteth to his own righteousness (Ezek. 33:13); concludes, that what he suffered was owing to his father’s sin, and not any iniquity of his own; and therefore complains of injustice in God; whose folly, vain opinion of himself, and unrighteous notions of God’s providence, are fully and justly exposed in this chapter.

2. The death threatened to the righteous man that turns from his righteousness, is not an eternal death, or the death of the soul and body in hell; since this death was then upon them, what they were complaining of, imagining it came upon them for the sins of their parents; and besides, they might have been recovered from it by repentance and reformation. Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? (Ezek. 18:23, 32) saith the Lord God; and not that he should return from his ways and live? For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth; wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye; all which cannot be said of an eternal death; dying in his iniquity, is the same with dying for his iniquity, as it is rendered in ver. 26, and designs some severe temporal calamity or affliction; which is often in Scripture called a death Exod. 10:17, 2 Cor. 1:10; 11:23; such as captivity, in which the Jews then were, of which they were complaining, what was owing to their sins, and from which they were capable of being recovered. "This answer, it is said, 63 contradicts the express words of the prophet about twenty times;" though not one single instance of it is given.

3. Admitting that the truly just and righteous man is here intended; it is no proof of a possibility of his turning away from his righteousness and sinning, so as to be finally lost and perish; only so as to be afflicted, or suffer in a general calamity; besides, the words are delivered in a conditional form, being to be read thus: If the righteous man turneth away from his righteousness. Now suppositio nil ponet in esse, a supposition puts nothing in being, is no proof or instance of matter of fact. But this is said 64 to be "flying for refuge to a mere mistake; the words in the original being not if, but beshub, evn h- a'n h`me,ra evpistreyh, in the day that he turns away from his righteousness."

https://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/sdg/gill/The_Cause_of_God_and_Truth_-_John_Gill.pdf

 

[Steven Yeadon]

This gives us further herculean-ly strained wildness to add to Gill's list of, "nor is it".

How many years did it take Satan to come up with this rotten far-fetched garbage?

2020?

Really, you had to say we are the purveyors of demonic doctrine if against double predestination?

 

[Alan Gross]

Really, you had to say we are the purveyors of demonic doctrine if against double predestination?

Tell me all the Scriptures that Teach Damnation, Condemnation, etc., now that you have been told.

Do we have to do that and list them for you, or can you do something like that?

Give us the big list of just the verses that Teach 'whateveritisyouwant to call it".

"left",

"the rest",

..verses like that.

...

Everyone was Predestinated to Hell.

There is a God Who Created The Universe and to Create man and brings Glory to Himself through all of His Creation.

Adam chose to fall and Every soul of mankind was Condemned as sinners and Hellbound, under The Wrath of God.

So, everyone was Damned to Hell and since God chose to Bring Glory to Himself by saving some and let His Wrath be Shown against the wicked who He Did Not Chose, you hate Him for that and find fault.

Appreciate your sharing that with us.

It is the incorrect way to Worship The God of The Bible, if one is Able.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

Tell me all the Scriptures that Teach Damnation, Condemnation, etc., now that you have been told.

Do we have to do that and list them for you, or can you do something like that?

Give us the big list of just the verses that Teach 'whateveritisyouwant to call it".

"left",

"the rest",

..verses like that.

...

Everyone was Predestinated to Hell.

There is a God Who Created The Universe and to Create man and brings Glory to Himself through all of His Creation.

Adam chose to fall and Every soul of mankind was Condemned as sinners and Hellbound, under The Wrath of God.

So, everyone was Damned to Hell and since God chose to Bring Glory to Himself by saving some and let His Wrath be Shown against the wicked who He Did Not Chose, you hate Him for that and find fault.

Appreciate your sharing that with us.

It is the incorrect way to Worship The God of The Bible, if one is Able.

Your accusation I hate God is ridiculous. Like I said, I am as I am due to scripture. I find your reasoning on the verses I posted as incorrect interpretation. I believe you need to be kind to your spiritual family. I will not call Dave's God a moral monster, but you say I am a monster before God for going with my conscience.

 

[Derf B]

Simple question, are there any verses you can point to that say any people are predestined to hell?

Single predestination is clear enough from scripture. At least some, if not all, people who believe are chosen for heaven through predestination. However, to my knowledge there appears not a single verse points to a double destination.

Yes, there are!

Jesus tells us this:

[Jhn 3:18 KJV] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

You'll notice Jesus doesn't say the the believer is "not condemned already", but He says the unbeliever "is condemned already"

We are predestined to hell until we believe.

I don't believe in double predestination. The only predestination is where we are predestined to death without the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. And we are predestined to hell after the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

 

[Alan Gross]

Your accusation I hate God is ridiculous. Like I said, I am as I am due to scripture. I find your reasoning on the verses I posted as incorrect interpretation. I believe you need to be kind to your spiritual family. I will not call Dave's God a moral monster, but you say I am a monster before God for going with my conscience.

The 'conscious' is sin-cursed.

In this case, the one who asked for Scriptures will be waiting for someone else to list those he requested, for some reason.

Is it because you Love The God of The Bible and His Word?

Why not do that instead of making up that I call you a monster?

You're not wanting to believe what you are seeing, but that shouldn't stop you from making a list.

Where is The Love?

 

[SavedByGrace]

The Words God Wrote in, 2 Peter 3:9 that might be important to it's understanding.

"toward you"

Everything that is said, is directed at Saved Individuals, to whom "toward you", is said in the Passage.

"The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any of you* should perish, but that all of you* should reach repentance" (2 Peter 3:9).

of you* added for clarity.




"Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord GOD, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?".

""The word "pleasure" is from the Hebrew, "châphêts", which is, "to will, to desire"; which is against the heart of God,""

You missed it, when you jumped from "to will, to desire" and gave that to mean "the heart of God".

The desire and will to punish the sinner is just Universal Justice and does extend to the Heart of God's Affection.

"But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doth, shall he live?

"all his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned;

"in his trespass that he hath trespassed,

"and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die". - Ezekiel 18:24.

This scripture is placed at the front of those which are said "expressly to assert the possibility, that true believers, true penitents, men truly just and righteous, may fall from their righteousness, and die in their iniquity."

1. The man here spoken of, is not one truly just and righteous; seeing he is denominated righteous from his own righteousness in which he trusted, and from which he is supposed to turn.

The man here designed, is one that is outwardly righteous before men; who imagines himself to be so; trusteth to his own righteousness (Ezek. 33:13); concludes, that what he suffered was owing to his father’s sin, and not any iniquity of his own; and therefore complains of injustice in God; whose folly, vain opinion of himself, and unrighteous notions of God’s providence, are fully and justly exposed in this chapter.

2. The death threatened to the righteous man that turns from his righteousness, is not an eternal death, or the death of the soul and body in hell; since this death was then upon them, what they were complaining of, imagining it came upon them for the sins of their parents; and besides, they might have been recovered from it by repentance and reformation. Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? (Ezek. 18:23, 32) saith the Lord God; and not that he should return from his ways and live? For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth; wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye; all which cannot be said of an eternal death; dying in his iniquity, is the same with dying for his iniquity, as it is rendered in ver. 26, and designs some severe temporal calamity or affliction; which is often in Scripture called a death Exod. 10:17, 2 Cor. 1:10; 11:23; such as captivity, in which the Jews then were, of which they were complaining, what was owing to their sins, and from which they were capable of being recovered. "This answer, it is said, 63 contradicts the express words of the prophet about twenty times;" though not one single instance of it is given.

3. Admitting that the truly just and righteous man is here intended; it is no proof of a possibility of his turning away from his righteousness and sinning, so as to be finally lost and perish; only so as to be afflicted, or suffer in a general calamity; besides, the words are delivered in a conditional form, being to be read thus: If the righteous man turneth away from his righteousness. Now suppositio nil ponet in esse, a supposition puts nothing in being, is no proof or instance of matter of fact. But this is said 64 to be "flying for refuge to a mere mistake; the words in the original being not if, but beshub, evn h- a'n h`me,ra evpistreyh, in the day that he turns away from his righteousness."

https://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/sdg/gill/The_Cause_of_God_and_Truth_-_John_Gill.pdf

Are you suggesting that the words in 2 Peter 3:9, are meant for the saved and not the unsaved? Really? Have you read what Peter says in the previous chapter? In 2:1 he is very clear, "But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.". Please not the uncorrupted Word of God, that it is for these heretics and fase teachers, who will be damned to eternal punishment, that Peter, by the Holy Spirit says, Jesus BOUGHT by His blood! I have seen the twisting of these words by the Reformed/Calvinists, where they argue that "Master" here does not mean Jesus Christ, but the Father! Only because they wish to remove the reference of salvation by Jesus for these people. Further, the word "bought", in this verse, is the Greek, ἀγοράζω, where Paul uses it for salvation, "you were ἀγοράζω with a price", in 1 Corinthians 6:20, and 7:23. It is also used in this sense in Revelation 5:9, "And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed (ἀγοράζω) us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation". Here also the meaning has been corrupted to something other than the Death of Jesus Christ, only because the Reformed/Calvinists do not like what the Bible clearly teaches, which shows their theology to be deception and against the Bible. Much like the JW's in their falsehoods!

 

[SavedByGrace]

Everyone was Predestinated to Hell

Just ONE verse from the Bible that teaches this HERSEY!

 

[Alan Gross]

Are you suggesting that the words in 2 Peter 3:9, are meant for the saved and not the unsaved? Really? Have you read what Peter says in the previous chapter? In 2:1 he is very clear, "But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.". Please not the uncorrupted Word of God, that it is for these heretics and fase teachers, who will be damned to eternal punishment, that Peter, by the Holy Spirit says, Jesus BOUGHT by His blood! I have seen the twisting of these words by the Reformed/Calvinists, where they argue that "Master" here does not mean Jesus Christ, but the Father! Only because they wish to remove the reference of salvation by Jesus for these people. Further, the word "bought", in this verse, is the Greek, ἀγοράζω, where Paul uses it for salvation, "you were ἀγοράζω with a price", in 1 Corinthians 6:20, and 7:23. It is also used in this sense in Revelation 5:9, "And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed (ἀγοράζω) us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation". Here also the meaning has been corrupted to something other than the Death of Jesus Christ, only because the Reformed/Calvinists do not like what the Bible clearly teaches, which shows their theology to be deception and against the Bible. Much like the JW's in their falsehoods!

To those who can read it, it means what it says.

Inventing something else to add in there is not The Work of God,
adding something into the Passage doesn't make it real; it is False. .

2 Peter 3:1 "This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you;"

2 Peter 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

2 Peter 3:3 "Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,'

WHO ARE NOT, beloved, THEM, THE USWARD, THE US, or THE TOWARDS YOU.

2 Peter 3:5
For this they willingly are ignorant of,....

WHO ARE NOT, beloved, THEM, THE USWARD, THE US, or THE TOWARDS YOU.

2 Peter 3:7
"But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

2 Peter 3:8 "But, beloved, be not ignorant ...."

2 Peter 3:9

King James Version
"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Darby Bible Translation
The Lord does not delay his promise, as some account of delay, but is longsuffering towards you, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

World English Bible
The Lord is not slow concerning his promise, as some count slowness; but is patient with us, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Young's Literal Translation
the Lord is not slow in regard to the promise, as certain count slowness, but is long-suffering to us, not counselling any to be lost but all to pass on to reformation,

Geneva Study Bible
{8} The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; {9} but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

[Alan Gross]

Just ONE verse from the Bible that teaches this HERSEY!

No, of course not.

Not if God has Hidden them from you.

I don't have that Power to overcome Darkness.

He Does.

You're not asking The One Who Wrote, 2 Peter 3:7
"But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

I have named a dozen, or two, and put out the challenge for someone to list them, besides me doing what you pretend to care about.

I have quoted a view thousand words explaining the Passive way in which all individuals are condemned and the active way in which sinners are guilty of their personal sins and damned to Hell, Forever.

The point of it all is not of the least bit of interest to some people and that is GOD WILL BRING GLORY to HIMSELF, in those He Saves and "the rest" that He DOES NOT but LEAVES THEM LOVING DARKNESS and HATING GOD, as His Enemy,

...Judging themselves to be unworthy of Eternal Life,

...and their "Will", Will NOT Come to Jesus that they might have Life.

There is one Scripture, "will".

The Witness of Scripture

John5:39; "You pore over the Scriptures because you presume that by them you possess eternal life.

"These are the very words that testify about Me,

40 "yet you will not to come to Me to have life."

 

[ivdavid]

If He casts someone into Hell, it is for their sins...
If He reserves someone to Himself that deserved Hell, it is by His grace.

I've found you one among the most reasonable people to disagree with . Again, we have much common ground as far as single predestination goes - it's the double where I am convinced beyond doubt that calvinism/reformed doctrines are in error. And the error lies not in intent, but in logic - the very thing it claims to uphold.

So when you say man deserves hell for his sins, I completely agree. Now when you say God reserves someone to Himself that deserved Hell... in God's mind, has God taken into account that man's sins for which he deserves hell before He reserves him or after reserving him? If God elects before any man's good or evil, one's sins wouldn't be considered until after election, right? God very well would have had a view of the fall, but only in a way that didn't consider any man's particular sins (including Adam's) in order to not violate Rom 9:11.

Those representatives, known as Christ's sheep, are the "all men", at least to me.

But would you equally concede that some others are perfectly right in reading "all men" as just "all men" if they weren't holding to double predestination? I mean, it's not some interpretative error in reading words for what they seem to denote unless there is a persuasive case not to. And in that we agree these serve only as prooftexts within themselves.

But looking at the concepts and not just phrases - how do you read Matt 23:37? God willed to gather what I conclude to be the non-elect in that they ended up not being gathered because they willed not. Why would God will to do something that He Himself counselled against doing before the ages? Put another way, is it at all possible by any stretch of imagination that God could similarly desire not to save His elect at any time after His sovereign predestined election - simply as a temporary revelation of what He desired though His actions would be to save them to the uttermost? Could God desire/will against what He's decreed/counselled preceding that?

 

[ivdavid]

Why do some believe and others do not?
What is stopping the Lord from having all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth?

Why some believe is because of God's operational sovereign grace in them from assuring/promising them salvation and why others don't is because of their own hardening sinful nature (not predestined reprobation/condemnation).

God looks at ALL creatures before any of their good or evil, none deserving anything more or less, and decrees that He will demonstrate His transcendent nature against the creatures' by simply showing what would happen when He is the operating nature in the creature vs when the creature's Self operates itself. Accordingly He creates the elect and non-elect angels and operates wholly within the elect. The results are for all to see - whom He operated in are perfectly preserved from the fall while all that were permitted to operate themselves perfectly fell.
Given these results of the fall, God proceeds to demonstrate what would happen when He operates vs when the creature's Self operates in the redemption from the fall. And accordingly He creates elect and non-elect man and provides the same level playing ground so as to highlight the sole differentiator being God's operating nature vs man's self-operating nature. And the results are again there for all to see - whom He operates in are perfectly redeemed while the others are perfectly lost.

For the purposes of this display to the praise of His glory, God needn't predestine reprobation/condemnation to any creature - He just has to give the Self complete 'freewill' to show that even when nothing was withheld from the Self pertaining to salvation, they still chose death, leaving none with any excuse, stopping all mouths. God even gives the non-elect a new heart and His Spirit conditionally, enlightening them with the knowledge of Christ's offer of sacrifice, exhorting and desiring all of them to be redeemed until they fill up their measure of sin. But can the Self change its spots, it returns to the dirt after being washed and cannot be renewed again to repentance. God no longer is near to seek after, and He swears in His wrath only then that they will not enter His conditionally promised rest and further hardens them so that they don't seek after mercy and destroys them displaying His power over these vessels then fitted for destruction.

I know that's a lot to unpack and I'm willing over time to go over each individual point if you so require, but the short answer is that God's sovereign decree to permit some(non-elect) to have self-will determining their destiny is the reason why they don't believe.

 

[Iconoclast]

To those who can read it, it means what it says.

Inventing something else to add in there is not The Work of God,
adding something into the Passage doesn't make it real; it is False. .

2 Peter 3:1 "This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you;"

2 Peter 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

2 Peter 3:3 "Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,'

WHO ARE NOT, beloved, THEM, THE USWARD, THE US, or THE TOWARDS YOU.

2 Peter 3:5
For this they willingly are ignorant of,....

WHO ARE NOT, beloved, THEM, THE USWARD, THE US, or THE TOWARDS YOU.

2 Peter 3:7
"But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

2 Peter 3:8 "But, beloved, be not ignorant ...."

2 Peter 3:9

King James Version
"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Darby Bible Translation
The Lord does not delay his promise, as some account of delay, but is longsuffering towards you, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

World English Bible
The Lord is not slow concerning his promise, as some count slowness; but is patient with us, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Young's Literal Translation
the Lord is not slow in regard to the promise, as certain count slowness, but is long-suffering to us, not counselling any to be lost but all to pass on to reformation,

Geneva Study Bible
{8} The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; {9} but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Yes indeed . This passage has always been an encouraging passage to the elect, that God is still longsuffering, bearing the objections and profane objections of ungodly scoffers until all of the objects of His saving love are effectually drawn to salvation.
Peter says Paul's writing is hard to be understood which is why election and predestination are hated by ungodly scoffers who have a hatred for the biblical God and the biblical gospel.
God had Jesusbuy the rights to every human being at the cross jn17.:1-3,
That He may seek and save all the "to usward",even those yet to be born.

 

[FollowHim]

Simple question, are there any verses you can point to that say any people are predestined to hell?

Single predestination is clear enough from scripture. At least some, if not all, people who believe are chosen for heaven through predestination. However, to my knowledge there appears not a single verse points to a double destination.

1 An oracle is within my heart concerning the sinfulness of the wicked: There is no fear of God before his eyes.
2 For in his own eyes he flatters himself too much to detect or hate his sin.
3 The words of his mouth are wicked and deceitful; he has ceased to be wise and to do good.
Psalm 36:1-3

4 The LORD works out everything for his own ends- even the wicked for a day of disaster.
Prov 16:4

Predestination can be looked at generically. The sheep are for heaven, the goats for destruction

33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Matt 25:33

41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." Matt 25:41

The basis of repentance and faith is this is the only route to salvation and walking with Jesus, so the rest have an end which they cannot avoid. What is the balance and how this works in life, only God truly knows.
God bless you

 

[Yeshua1]

I think its a distiction without a difference.

Big difference!

 

[Yeshua1]

You sound like an Arminian.

What Calvinist holds that God authors sin?

 

[Barry Johnson]

What Calvinist holds that God authors sin?

They don't say He does . They have a confession which tells them " God is not the author of sin " . That settles it for them .

 

[Yeshua1]

Tell me all the Scriptures that Teach Damnation, Condemnation, etc., now that you have been told.

Do we have to do that and list them for you, or can you do something like that?

Give us the big list of just the verses that Teach 'whateveritisyouwant to call it".

"left",

"the rest",

..verses like that.

...

Everyone was Predestinated to Hell.

There is a God Who Created The Universe and to Create man and brings Glory to Himself through all of His Creation.

Adam chose to fall and Every soul of mankind was Condemned as sinners and Hellbound, under The Wrath of God.

So, everyone was Damned to Hell and since God chose to Bring Glory to Himself by saving some and let His Wrath be Shown against the wicked who He Did Not Chose, you hate Him for that and find fault.

Appreciate your sharing that with us.

It is the incorrect way to Worship The God of The Bible, if one is Able.

All predestined due to the effects of the fall of Adam is not the same as saying that God directly determined to send the lost to Hell period!

 

[Yeshua1]

They don't say He does . They have a confession which tells them " God is not the author of sin " . That settles it for them .

I hold to the scriptures first and foremost, and the 1689 Confession, so still looking for the calvinists who attributes sin to being directly caused and determined by God!

 

[Yeshua1]

They don't say He does . They have a confession which tells them " God is not the author of sin " . That settles it for them .

The only ones who might would be so call Hyper Cals