I assume you are refering to Romans 12...I"m not sure what you mean by mind/soul. It says mind, refering to our though patterns...the more we imbibe the word, the more it shapes and renews our thoughts.
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Are you a dichotomist or a trichotomist?
- Thread starter 12strings
- Start date
I assume you are refering to Romans 12...I"m not sure what you mean by mind/soul. It says mind, refering to our though patterns...the more we imbibe the word, the more it shapes and renews our thoughts.
So what part of the two that you believe is still being renewed..what part is the mind? soul/spirit or body? I believe the mind here is the soul.I assume you are refering to Romans 12...I"m not sure what you mean by mind/soul. It says mind, refering to our though patterns...the more we imbibe the word, the more it shapes and renews our thoughts.
If I understand you right...you are saying that nothing changed in us the moment we put our faith in the resurrected Lord and Savior? So our spirits will not be made alive until we receive our new bodies?I will take a shot based upon these verses speaking as of that which has been conceived, will then be born.
1 John 3:1,2 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: (We are presently the conceived Sons of God by the spirit having been given us.) but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. (We will then be born) (Presently Jesus and Jesus only is) Col 1:18 the firstborn from the dead. (But when he shall appear we shall be like him, conformed to his image, and then he will be the firstborn of many.) Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren,
Luke 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
What is new is that which had been mortal, the living soul, will have put on immortality and that which had been corruptible, the body, will have put on insorruption.
The soul of Jesus was resurrected from Hades, the abode of dead souls and his body was resurrected having not seen corruption being he was three days and three nights dead. He received the sure mercies of David. So says Acts 13:34 and 2:31
I do not think I am understanding how you believe...
If I understand you right...you are saying that nothing changed in us the moment we put our faith in the resurrected Lord and Savior? So our spirits will not be made alive until we receive our new bodies?
I do not think I am understanding how you believe...
Yes something changed. We have been given the Spirit of God so we can be born of God in the Image of the resurrected Jesus the firstborn from the dead. We are now the children of God yet unborn. IMHO
John 14:26 RSV But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.
2 Thes 2:13 RSV But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God chose you from the beginning to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.
Sanctification equaling set apart by the Spirit of God the Spirit of adoption therefore: Romans 8:15-17 KJV for ye did not receive a spirit of bondage again for fear, but ye did receive a spirit of adoption in which we cry, `Abba -- Father.' The Spirit himself doth testify with our spirit, that we are children of God; The Spirit himself doth testify with our spirit, that we are children of God; ( Notice we are heirs, not yet inheritors but heirs, as in Hebrews 1:14 KJV Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation? )
Set apart unto salvation at the appearing of Jesus. Is that not exactly what 1 Peter 1:2-5 says? Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. Blessed the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
The last part of Rom 8:17 concerning being heirs with Christ: if, indeed, we suffer together, that we may also be glorified together.
--understood with him. I asked Icon in another thread about that glory Jesus prayed the Father for and stated it being stated somewhere else that the Father gave him glory and asked what it is. I believe he posted something from Pink and also posted from Hebrews 1:3 which follows 2 which says he Jesus was appointed by the Father heir of all things including glory V3. I believe 1 Peter also says something about this glory the Father gave the Son, Jesus.
The Son, Jesus 1 Peter 1:20,21 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, (slain from the foundation of the world) but was manifest in these last times for you, Who by him do believe in God, (The Father) that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; (The glory he prayed for, maybe?) that your faith and hope might be in God.
Now what will we have because we have been given the Spirit? V22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, [see that ye] love one another with a pure heart fervently: Remember we are heirs not yet inheritors of that glory to be glorified together with in Christ Rom 8:17 but we have the Spirit of adoption, we are begotten of God so says the word of God: Verse 23 1 Peter 1 Being born (begotten YLT) again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
The word of God tells us we shall have that same glory as Christ. What is different about it?
1 Peter 1:24 For all flesh [is] as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: {John 3:6,7 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
1 Peter 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
That glory is eternal life, incorruptible, that does not wither away that will come at the appearing of Jesus.
Wherefore comfort one another with these words. 1 Thess 4:18
I believe Dichotomy. The living soul (subject to death, the soul that sins it shall die) tabernacles in a corruptible body. Our desire is to put on immortality, incorruptible our house from heaven. Eternal Life. 2 Cor 5
So what part of the two that you believe is still being renewed..what part is the mind? soul/spirit or body? I believe the mind here is the soul.
But WHY do you think the mind is the soul?
Another question, which part is the heart in scriptures? (spirit or soul) Gods says He will give us a new heart. (I think the heart in scripture refers to our immaterial core of who we are, sometimes called soul, other times called spirit)
Like I said in another thread...I have just began to scratch the surface on what the Word says about this! But I have started studing it this year!But WHY do you think the mind is the soul?
Another question, which part is the heart in scriptures? (spirit or soul) Gods says He will give us a new heart. (I think the heart in scripture refers to our immaterial core of who we are, sometimes called soul, other times called spirit)
First I believe at this point that we are three. 1 Thess. 5:23 says spirit AND soul AND body. It speaks of three! My search was to find out what these three are and how they function in scripture. I also see it in Gen. 2:7!
The physical part I believe most will agree is our physical body. What we see in the mirror. But when you speak to me, are you speaking to my body or my soul (mental/emotional part)? The body holds 5 functions (taste, smell, hear, touch and see).These functions help us relate to the world around us. Without our body we could not live on earth, could we? Can we agree on the physical part before I explain more?
This is interesting...but I will have to digest some of it before I respond.Yes something changed. We have been given the Spirit of God so we can be born of God in the Image of the resurrected Jesus the firstborn from the dead. We are now the children of God yet unborn. IMHO
John 14:26 RSV But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.
2 Thes 2:13 RSV But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God chose you from the beginning to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.
Sanctification equaling set apart by the Spirit of God the Spirit of adoption therefore: Romans 8:15-17 KJV for ye did not receive a spirit of bondage again for fear, but ye did receive a spirit of adoption in which we cry, `Abba -- Father.' The Spirit himself doth testify with our spirit, that we are children of God; The Spirit himself doth testify with our spirit, that we are children of God; ( Notice we are heirs, not yet inheritors but heirs, as in Hebrews 1:14 KJV Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation? )
Set apart unto salvation at the appearing of Jesus. Is that not exactly what 1 Peter 1:2-5 says? Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. Blessed the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
The last part of Rom 8:17 concerning being heirs with Christ: if, indeed, we suffer together, that we may also be glorified together.
--understood with him. I asked Icon in another thread about that glory Jesus prayed the Father for and stated it being stated somewhere else that the Father gave him glory and asked what it is. I believe he posted something from Pink and also posted from Hebrews 1:3 which follows 2 which says he Jesus was appointed by the Father heir of all things including glory V3. I believe 1 Peter also says something about this glory the Father gave the Son, Jesus.
The Son, Jesus 1 Peter 1:20,21 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, (slain from the foundation of the world) but was manifest in these last times for you, Who by him do believe in God, (The Father) that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; (The glory he prayed for, maybe?) that your faith and hope might be in God.
Now what will we have because we have been given the Spirit? V22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, [see that ye] love one another with a pure heart fervently: Remember we are heirs not yet inheritors of that glory to be glorified together with in Christ Rom 8:17 but we have the Spirit of adoption, we are begotten of God so says the word of God: Verse 23 1 Peter 1 Being born (begotten YLT) again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
The word of God tells us we shall have that same glory as Christ. What is different about it?
1 Peter 1:24 For all flesh [is] as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: {John 3:6,7 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
1 Peter 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
That glory is eternal life, incorruptible, that does not wither away that will come at the appearing of Jesus.
Wherefore comfort one another with these words. 1 Thess 4:18
I believe Dichotomy. The living soul (subject to death, the soul that sins it shall die) tabernacles in a corruptible body. Our desire is to put on immortality, incorruptible our house from heaven. Eternal Life. 2 Cor 5
Question: When we are given the Spirit of God (rebirth), do we become one with His Spirit? If so where does this take place?
ONe more note...when we are born again...it is more than just conception, right? Birth is a new creature.
convicted1
Guest
Dichotomist. Soul/Spirit are used interchangeably in the Bible in reference to a person. We have a physical part of us and a spiritual(spirit/soul) part of us.
:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
Still on your bandwagon, Brother. BTW, how's the Missus and little one?
:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
Still on your bandwagon, Brother. BTW, how's the Missus and little one?
Doing great! She's 7.5 months old now! Wife is doing great too.
How are we different from the animals if we are just soul and body?
We are created in God's image! BUT...it does not necessarily follow that we must be 3 as God is 3. The bible doesn't make that link for us, so that argument by itself is not enough to prove trichotomy.
I'm also wondering how we know that an animal has a soul?
So how do you understand image?We are created in God's image! BUT...it does not necessarily follow that we must be 3 as God is 3. The bible doesn't make that link for us, so that argument by itself is not enough to prove trichotomy.
I'm also wondering how we know that an animal has a soul?
How do you explain the different words in Hebrew?
The Spirit-roo'akh-
The body-bawsawr'
The soul-neh'fesh
The mind-labe/lay-bawb'
The heart- labe'
Heb. 4:12 mentions all soul/spirit/body(joints and marrow)/thoughts(mind)/heart?
What part is the heart? what part is the mind? IF we are only two part being?
Can a spirit die or does it live forever either in heaven or hell?
A lot of question to be answered before I buy in to a two part being?
I believe we are two part creations, part one being our flesh and blood body, and part two our human spirit. And the core characteristics of our spirit are frequently called our soul. For example, Hebrews 4:12 teaches the word of God can penetrate and separate what was beforehand combined. Thus it separates the Spirit and the Soul, teaching they are combined.
In 1 Thessalonians 5:23 we see that our entirety is made up of the spirit, the soul, and the body, but the verse does not require a separate three part configuration, the soul can be understood to be part of the whole spirit. But I will certainly agree this verse in isolation does point to a three part configuration. However other verses preclude that possibility.
In Matthew 10:28 we see that in Hell (Gehenna) we can have both our soul and our body destroyed. One must conclude when our soul is destroyed, that also means our spirit is destroyed.
Next we have to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. And when the Spirit departs, the body dies. Thus the Spirit/Soul operate together separately from the body. Our Spirit is of course the God given life force within us, and therefore the body returns to dust without it. To be present with the Lord requires our conscious awareness or soul to be present.
In summary, the desire to push for a three part view rather than the apparent two part body and soul/spirit view seem to be to enable mistaken doctrine.
In 1 Thessalonians 5:23 we see that our entirety is made up of the spirit, the soul, and the body, but the verse does not require a separate three part configuration, the soul can be understood to be part of the whole spirit. But I will certainly agree this verse in isolation does point to a three part configuration. However other verses preclude that possibility.
In Matthew 10:28 we see that in Hell (Gehenna) we can have both our soul and our body destroyed. One must conclude when our soul is destroyed, that also means our spirit is destroyed.
Next we have to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. And when the Spirit departs, the body dies. Thus the Spirit/Soul operate together separately from the body. Our Spirit is of course the God given life force within us, and therefore the body returns to dust without it. To be present with the Lord requires our conscious awareness or soul to be present.
In summary, the desire to push for a three part view rather than the apparent two part body and soul/spirit view seem to be to enable mistaken doctrine.
So how do you understand image?
How do you explain the different words in Hebrew?
The Spirit-roo'akh-
The body-bawsawr'
The soul-neh'fesh
The mind-labe/lay-bawb'
The heart- labe'
Heb. 4:12 mentions all soul/spirit/body(joints and marrow)/thoughts(mind)/heart?
What part is the heart? what part is the mind? IF we are only two part being?
Can a spirit die or does it live forever either in heaven or hell?
A lot of question to be answered before I buy in to a two part being?
I'm not a hebrew expert, so I have to go by the english translations, in which you are right, there is more than just soul and spirit, which should tell us that all these different words probably have some overlap...especially since you will be hard pressed to find biblical definitions that differintiate between what the soul and spirit actually are or actually do.
Even you would not say we are a 6-part being: soul, spirit, heart, body, mind, bowels....RIGHT? It seems to make much more sense to say that the Bible uses lots of words to describe the immaterial part of man, and often use different words to refer to the same thing.
As far as hell, I would say the Spirit of believers is re-united with an incorruptible body for eternity in the new heaven & new earth....unbelievers spirits go to hell...body stays in the ground.
No, I do not think we are a 6 part being.I'm not a hebrew expert, so I have to go by the english translations, in which you are right, there is more than just soul and spirit, which should tell us that all these different words probably have some overlap...especially since you will be hard pressed to find biblical definitions that differintiate between what the soul and spirit actually are or actually do.
Even you would not say we are a 6-part being: soul, spirit, heart, body, mind, bowels....RIGHT? It seems to make much more sense to say that the Bible uses lots of words to describe the immaterial part of man, and often use different words to refer to the same thing.
As far as hell, I would say the Spirit of believers is re-united with an incorruptible body for eternity in the new heaven & new earth....unbelievers spirits go to hell...body stays in the ground.
Rev. 8:9 " And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea and had life(psuche), died; and the third part oft he ships were destroyed."I'm also wondering how we know that an animal has a soul?
"In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind." Job 12:10
The NT in Rev. 8:9; 16:3 also show the creatures had life (soul).
Every living thing has a soul. Adam was not a living soul until God breathed the breath of life into him.
What did Adam lose in the garden? He was connected to God- spiritually alive.
To really understand the spirit/soul/body you have to dig deep into His word!
What did Adam lose in the garden? He was connected to God- spiritually alive.
Thanks for looking up the animal verses for me, I wasn't sure.
What did adam lose...I think we can safetly say that he lost niether his soul or spirit...as both saved and unsaved people in scripture are refered to has having both...However, his spirit was separated from God.
I have looked up several scritures this year concerning this! A lot of light has been shed on this for me...but there are also unanswered questions too! The questions I am asking you are the questions I asked myself as I studied and prayed for answers.Thanks for looking up the animal verses for me, I wasn't sure.
What did adam lose...I think we can safetly say that he lost niether his soul or spirit...as both saved and unsaved people in scripture are refered to has having both...However, his spirit was separated from God.
Would you say it was his heart that was darkened because I see the heart of man to be a combination of the spirit and soul. (I wish I could down load a diagram the picture would be clearer.) These sciptures imply that they are connected (Gen. 6:5;Matt. 9:4; Acts 11:23; Heb. 4:12; John 16:6; Heb. 10:22; 1 John 3:20).
Which of the following do you believe about the nature of Man:
1. Dichotomy = Man is essentially 2 parts: spiritual & physical. The soul and spirit mentioned in the bible are 2 words for the same thing.
2. Trichotomy = Man is essentially 3 parts: Body, Soul, & Spirit. Spirit and soul are 2 separate things.
Also, with your answers, try to give any resulting consequences that your view may have on other areas of life or study. (either a good consequence that results from your view, or something bad that would come up if one accepted the other view). So we'll try to take the discussion beyond the point of: "Oh, that's interesting that we have two, three, four parts to us...oh well!" Say why it matters :thumbsup:
Think that ALL humans are physically born with flesh/soul, but that our spirit is dead, and ONLY those who are born again are 3 parters!
So Adam was created as 3 and then he was 2? What did he lose?Think that ALL humans are physically born with flesh/soul, but that our spirit is dead, and ONLY those who are born again are 3 parters!