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Are you a dichotomist or a trichotomist?

12strings

Active Member
Rom. 12:12 speaks of renewing our mind with the word. If we are having to renew our spirit, then what does faith in Christ for salvation do for us? Our spirit is either made new or not. If it was not then we have to renew it ourselves by the word!

This is one reason I do not believe the soul and spirit are the same.

Is our mind the same as the mind of Christ? Or does our soul have a mind and our spirit have a mind too?

It is not necessary to split the soul and the spirit in order to have conflicting desires within the same person...a renewed spirit is not perfect yet. We have Christ's spirit, but we also have our old sinful desires.

Think about a dog for a second...a dog (which you say has no spirit, but does have a soul...so no inner conflict between the two) could at the same time desire to please his master by obeying a "stay" command, but at the same time also desire to disobey his master by chasing after a rabbit. Conflicting desires, yet there is no renewed spirit pulling against an "unrenewed" soul. Just one dog with conflicting desires...

There is no reason to necessitate a renewed human spirit that is now in conflict with the old human soul.
 

awaken

Active Member
1. I would say Adam's spirit was created when God breathed into Adam...and our spirits are created at conception...woudn't you?
2. Soul= same thing
3. bodies= at conception...then it grows bigger...

4. In scripture, the same types of things are said about the mind and the heart...not refering to physical organs, but to our central volitional self, ie, our Soul, or spirit,

5. Subjective/objective? Niether word is in scripture, so I dont' know what your asking.

6. Unregnerate hearts: Now your sounding like a calvinist! :)
First off I do not know what a calvinist believes! So I don't know if I am one or not.:tongue3:

1. God breathed into Adam the breath of life (spirit of man) and he became a living soul. Are you saying that the spirit and soul became one at this point?
I thought God created our spirits before the foundation of the world. I thought that God breathed into Adam his human spirit and he became a soul.

Could God have made them become one in harmony then and then after the fall divided them? The soul still being connected to the spirit but darkened (no contact) with the spirit through the heart.

I believe the heart is what connects the soul and the spirit. The mind is what connects the soul to the body. THe mind is having to be renewed (retaught) by the Holy Spirit through His word to get his body back in line with the spirit.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Questions and Biblical Answers

I will answer this post shortly..but would ask for now, this...

Was our spirits created before the foundation of the world?
When is our soul formed?
When do we receive our bodies?

Is the mind one of two central organs of the human triune being? The other being the heart?
What is the difference in the subjective mind and the objective mind?

The heart is deceitful above all things, right? If our heart is unregenerated, can it receive anything from God?

Note: The OT believers were under the old covenant and their access to God was by way of the Law. The NT believers are now under the new covenant of Grace and Mercy because of Christ's provision on the Cross. Our access to God is by way of the Spirit of God that indwells us.

1) Were our human spirits created before the foundation of the world? No, God forms our spirits within us upon conception, Zechariah 12:1.

2) At the same time, our soul is the mind and essence of our human spirit.

3) Our human fleshly bodies are "received" at conception. Our glorified bodies will be received at our Lord's second coming.

4) We are not a triune being, we are physical body enlivened by our human spirit. Our mind/soul is part of our human spirit, thus when our spirit departs our physical body, our soul departs as part of our spirit. The references to physical body parts, bowels, kidney, heart as the seat of our desires and emotions are simply figurative references to our inner being.

5) Yes, we can at times receive the gospel with joy and fully trust in Christ. Noah had a deceitful heart, yet found favor in God's eyes. The concept of total spiritual inability is unbiblical.

6) Our access to God is through the blood of Jesus, we can approach the throne of grace unfettered.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I see that the spirit, soul and body were designed to fuction in harmony with one another. Our spirit being the highest form of life, is to be the head or our being and rule over our souls and bodies. Yet, at the fall of Adam, this relationship between the three was lost. Christ redemption on the cross gave every person born an opportunity to become regenerated, restored to their spirits-born again. Once we are born again, we have the capacity to live this renewed harmonious relationship between the spirit, soul and body (Gal. 5:16-26). The soul and body still need to be regenerated, and that is to "work out our own salvation" (Phil. 2:12).

Rom. 12:12 speaks of renewing our mind with the word. If we are having to renew our spirit, then what does faith in Christ for salvation do for us? Our spirit is either made new or not. If it was not then we have to renew it ourselves by the word!

This is one reason I do not believe the soul and spirit are the same.

Is our mind the same as the mind of Christ? Or does our soul have a mind and our spirit have a mind too?

Our inner man, the person hidden in our heart, our spirit/soul functions in harmony with itself. When we are born anew, our spirit/soul is rewired, born from above, and indwelt with the Spirit of Christ.

The relationship that was lost in the garden was Adam was separated from God, figuratively kicked out of the garden and precluded from re-entering. This separation is spiritual death, and all mankind suffered the consequence of that separation, being conceived in a separated from God sinful state, i.e. in iniquity.

Galatians 5:16- 26 teaches our spirit/soul can be led by the Holy Spirit and walk in paths of righteousness, or we can walk in an unworthy manner. The tension is between the way of the flesh and the way of the Holy Spirit. But as born anew creations, we can walk by the Spirit.

In sum, the passage provides no support for the mistaken three part view of man.

Romans 12:2 teaches we are not to be conformed to the world, but be transformed by the renewing of our mind, so we can do the will of God.
Thus as a born anew person, we are still babes in Christ, and need to study and grow more mature, feeding on spiritual meat understood with the aid of our indwelt Spirit of God.

What does faith in Christ do for us? Great question! If we actually go "all in" for Christ, God will credit our faith as righteousness, Romans 4:4-5, and place us spiritually in Christ. And in Christ we undergo the circumcision of Christ and arise in Christ a new creature, created for good works. 1 Peter 1:3-5 tells us we God will keep us by protecting our faith, so once we are "born anew" we will always love Jesus and trust Him, even if our walk goes astray. If we build on our foundation in Christ with imperishable stuff, we will enter heaven abundantly, but if we build with perishable stuff, it will be burned up and we will still get to heaven, but as one escaping from a fire, bringing little or no rewards with us.
 
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12strings

Active Member
First off I do not know what a calvinist believes! So I don't know if I am one or not.:tongue3:

1. God breathed into Adam the breath of life (spirit of man) and he became a living soul. Are you saying that the spirit and soul became one at this point?
I thought God created our spirits before the foundation of the world. I thought that God breathed into Adam his human spirit and he became a soul.

Could God have made them become one in harmony then and then after the fall divided them? The soul still being connected to the spirit but darkened (no contact) with the spirit through the heart.

I believe the heart is what connects the soul and the spirit. The mind is what connects the soul to the body. THe mind is having to be renewed (retaught) by the Holy Spirit through His word to get his body back in line with the spirit.

1. So you tink there were billions of human spirits in existance before creation? I don't know where you got that idea... I think it is clear the whole man was created on day 6.

2. God could have done whatever he wanted. The problem with what you are saying is that there is at least one verse (can't find it right now) that speaks of the "spirit" of a people being in rebellion against God...so very active.
 

awaken

Active Member
1. So you tink there were billions of human spirits in existance before creation? I don't know where you got that idea... I think it is clear the whole man was created on day 6.

2. God could have done whatever he wanted. The problem with what you are saying is that there is at least one verse (can't find it right now) that speaks of the "spirit" of a people being in rebellion against God...so very active.
As you said...God could do whatever he wants!!

I never said all spirits were good!
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
No verse or passage says or suggests God created our spirits before the foundation of the world. The phrase appears three times, John 17:24 which says God loved Jesus before the foundation of the world, Ephesians 1:4 which says God chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, and 1 Peter 1:20 which says Jesus was known as the Lamb of God before the foundation of the world. But since scripture specifically says God forms our spirits within us, our spirits cannot have been created before our conception.
 

awaken

Active Member
No verse or passage says or suggests God created our spirits before the foundation of the world. The phrase appears three times, John 17:24 which says God loved Jesus before the foundation of the world, Ephesians 1:4 which says God chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, and 1 Peter 1:20 which says Jesus was known as the Lamb of God before the foundation of the world. But since scripture specifically says God forms our spirits within us, our spirits cannot have been created before our conception.
You are right! He just forknew! He chose us!
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
The Bible is Right

You are right! He just forknew! He chose us!

If the election of Ephesians 1:4 is corporate, then God knew before creation that His chosen Redeemer, the Lamb of God, would redeem believers, the target group of His redemption plan. So when God chose His Redeemer according to His Redemption Plan, He chose us in Him corporately as the target group of His Redemption plan.

The Greek words translated foreknew and foreknowledge refer to knowledge acquired or formulated in the past being used in the present. Thus when Christ was crucified, it was by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God. Christ had been chosen as the Lamb of God before the foundation of the world, and therefore was "foreknown before the foundation of the world."
 
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