Are you a dichotomist or a trichotomist?

[12strings]

I have looked up several scritures this year concerning this! A lot of light has been shed on this for me...but there are also unanswered questions too! The questions I am asking you are the questions I asked myself as I studied and prayed for answers.

Would you say it was his heart that was darkened because I see the heart of man to be a combination of the spirit and soul. (I wish I could down load a diagram the picture would be clearer.) These sciptures imply that they are connected (Gen. 6:5;Matt. 9:4; Acts 11:23; Heb. 4:12; John 16:6; Heb. 10:22; 1 John 3:20).

Yes, I would say that one way to describe what happened was that his heart was darkened, he died spiritually (different than "his spirit died"...Death in scripture refers to a separation, not a ceasing to live or exist...)

Yes obviously they are connected...I would say when the scripture speaks of the heart as the center/core of a person, making moral and God-oriented decisions, that is the spirit/soul.

P.S. i DISAGREE with yeshua 1 about adam only being 2 for a while... then three.

 

[awaken]

Yes, I would say that one way to describe what happened was that his heart was darkened, he died spiritually (different than "his spirit died"...Death in scripture refers to a separation, not a ceasing to live or exist...)

Yes obviously they are connected...I would say when the scripture speaks of the heart as the center/core of a person, making moral and God-oriented decisions, that is the spirit/soul.

P.S. i DISAGREE with yeshua 1 about adam only being 2 for a while... then three.

Ok, so we agree that spiritual death means separation from God. But the spirit itself lives forever, right? (Either in hell of heaven)
Demons are spiritual beings they live forever, right?

I see animals as soul/body, but humans as human spirit/soul/ body. When we are saved then our spirit is made alive and we are reconnected to our heavenly Father. We become one with the Holy Spirit. This all happens in the spirit...our spirit becomes one with His. Now we can communicate with Our father...we are born again.

The soul consist of... mind(Ps. 139:14)/will (Job 7:15; 6:7)/ emotion (Song of Solomon 1:7; Ps 86:4; Samuel 5:8). THe soul is not made new at salvation! It is still being renewed by the Word of God.

The body is just the house that holds our soul and spirit. It relates to the world around us through the five senses. It will go back to dust at death.

Now the spirit of man is our conscience (Rom 9:1;8:16), Fellowship (John 4:24; Eph. 8:16) Intuition (1 Cor. 2:11)

 

[percho]

This is interesting...but I will have to digest some of it before I respond.
A. Question: When we are given the Spirit of God (rebirth), do we become one with His Spirit? If so where does this take place?

B. ONe more note...when we are born again...it is more than just conception, right? Birth is a new creature.

A.Of course I would say, when we are given the Spirit of God (conceived to be born as sons, see Luke 20:36.)
Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: (Spirit to spirit, let's take a look.)
1 Cor. 2:10-16 But God hath revealed unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. (It is by our mind we knoe what we know, let's continue.) Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

B. Romans 1:3,4 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
And declared the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Does that imply two modes of becoming a son?

Luke 2:7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all he might have the preeminence.

At the very least is that speaking of two birth for Jesus Christ?

My question. Was there any difference in the Son of Man who was raised from the dead to the Son of man who had died on the cross? Acts 13:34
Is the resurrected Jesus a new creation of man of which we also can be created. Think about the Hebrews 2 passage concerning, what is man. It goes on to say that man was to have all things given to him but that we do not see that is the first man Adam, however we see it in the last Adam 1Cor15:45 made quickening spirit. That is speaking of the resurrected Jesus Christ. How do I know this? John 5:21 For as the Father raises up the dead, and quickens; Gal. 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)

So far there is only one new creation and that is Jesus. There have been many put, "in Christ," but none yet of those have been born in his image.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.


Will it be by birth of the Spirit through either resurrection and or instant change at the return of Jesus when he is said to be the firstborn among many?

YES or NO?

 

[saturneptune]

I would have to say I am a tri, like Allan said, the spirit being quickened and the soul saved. I have heard someone explain the difference as the spirit being our eternal element, and the soul being more of our personality. Not sure about that. If I am wrong, it is not an issue with me.

 

[psalms109:31]

Three parts of man is hard to explain and never heard a really good explanation for them. I believe the spirit makes everything alive earthy alive animates like it is what hold all the molecules together moves the atoms to the desired speed to make it what it is. The spirit is in everything it is how we are knit together and how one action can cause a chain reaction that can go further than we know. The soul mind is like a vessel being filled with our experiences what we learn making us into an individual different from others. The soul is what makes us different, makes each person unique. The body is the world it is made up of elements that is all around us and God has molded it all together making it wonderfully made. How much details God put into us and how fragile we are in need of Him to keep us together.

We need a new Spirit the Holy Spirit and only Jesus can give this to us, so we have to trust in Him and the promise that we can not see, but we see what it does and what it has done in us. We don't see the wind, but we see the effects of it.

 

[awaken]

A.Of course I would say, when we are given the Spirit of God (conceived to be born as sons, see Luke 20:36.)
Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: (Spirit to spirit, let's take a look.)
1 Cor. 2:10-16 But God hath revealed unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. (It is by our mind we knoe what we know, let's continue.) Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

B. Romans 1:3,4 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
And declared the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Does that imply two modes of becoming a son?

Luke 2:7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all he might have the preeminence.

At the very least is that speaking of two birth for Jesus Christ?

My question. Was there any difference in the Son of Man who was raised from the dead to the Son of man who had died on the cross? Acts 13:34
Is the resurrected Jesus a new creation of man of which we also can be created. Think about the Hebrews 2 passage concerning, what is man. It goes on to say that man was to have all things given to him but that we do not see that is the first man Adam, however we see it in the last Adam 1Cor15:45 made quickening spirit. That is speaking of the resurrected Jesus Christ. How do I know this? John 5:21 For as the Father raises up the dead, and quickens; Gal. 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)

So far there is only one new creation and that is Jesus. There have been many put, "in Christ," but none yet of those have been born in his image.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.


Will it be by birth of the Spirit through either resurrection and or instant change at the return of Jesus when he is said to be the firstborn among many?

YES or NO?

I am trying to understand what you are saying...
Some deep stuff concerning the our new birth.
Are you saying we are not born yet? We are just in Christ waiting for our new birth?

 

[percho]

I am trying to understand what you are saying...
Some deep stuff concerning the our new birth.
Are you saying we are not born yet? We are just in Christ waiting for our new birth?

I would say part B confirms that, so yes.

 

[David Michael Harris]

To be honest I don't know?

 

[saturneptune]

I would say I agree as well.

And all this time I thought you were a quadotomist: One part body, one part soul, one part spirit, and one part Calvinist.

 

[Van]

For all you three parter, just what is Paul's "inner man." No fair saying soul and spirit, as I say, but which of the two? (Romans 7:22, Ephesians 3:16, 2 Corinthians 4:16.

Or the person referenced in 1 Peter 3:4.

 

[convicted1]

I would have to say I am a tri, like Allan said, the spirit being quickened and the soul saved. I have heard someone explain the difference as the spirit being our eternal element, and the soul being more of our personality. Not sure about that. If I am wrong, it is not an issue with me.

Yep you're a "tri" alright. A tricycle with two wheels missing....LOL

 

[awaken]

For all you three parter, just what is Paul's "inner man." No fair saying soul and spirit, as I say, but which of the two? (Romans 7:22, Ephesians 3:16, 2 Corinthians 4:16.

Or the person referenced in 1 Peter 3:4.

I would say It depended on the context. The heart is the hidden man. Spirit the inner man.

I am sure most of you have seen the diagram of the spirit/soul/ body. It is three rings than touch and overlap. Where the soul and spirit overlap..I see that as the heart. I believe that was the part that was darkened!

Got to go...post more later!

 

[saturneptune]

Yep you're a "tri" alright. A tricycle with two wheels missing....LOL

You are so funny, LOL. Just for that, we will make a brand new classification for you, a quintotomist. body, soul, spirit, Obama, and Romney

 

[convicted1]

You are so funny, LOL. Just for that, we will make a brand new classification for you, a quintotomist. body, soul, spirit, Obama, and Romney

You know something, Obama and Romney could move to California and get married, and reside in San Francisco. They could call themselves Obamaronie, the San Francisco treat......I know, I know.....boo....boo......hiss....hiss.......boo....oh brother...... :wavey: :tongue3:

 

[saturneptune]

You know something, Obama and Romney could move to California and get married, and reside in San Francisco. They could call themselves Obamaronie, the San Francisco treat......I know, I know.....boo....boo......hiss....hiss.......boo....oh brother...... :wavey: :tongue3:

Do not quit your technical job and join the comedy channel.

 

[Van]

I would say It depended on the context. The heart is the hidden man. Spirit the inner man.

I am sure most of you have seen the diagram of the spirit/soul/ body. It is three rings than touch and overlap. Where the soul and spirit overlap..I see that as the heart. I believe that was the part that was darkened!

Got to go...post more later!

Here we have an effort, the Spirit is the inner man. But the inner man has a mind, able to concur with the Law of God. Now Ephesians 3:16 teaches us our indwelt Spirit of Christ dwells in the "inner man." So when we are led by the Spirit, would it not be the mind of the inner man that is being lead?
And finally, our inner man is being renewed day by day. That would be the renewing our our mind in the inner man. Therefore, the mind or soul is part of the inner man, rather than just the Spirit.

The hidden person of 1 Peter 3:4 is the inner man, a born again spirit united with Christ (the Spirit indwells our new creation human spirit) which is imperishable. And of course that hidden person has a mind/soul which is loving and kind, bearing all the fruit of the Spirit.

No view other than the two part view fits with all scripture.

 

[12strings]

A primary difficulty in holding to a separate soul & Spirit is finding anything in scripture that is said that the Spirit does, that you could not also find another scripture saying a very similar thing that the soul does. The overlap is enormous...its like they are refering to the same thing!

 

[awaken]

Here we have an effort, the Spirit is the inner man. But the inner man has a mind, able to concur with the Law of God. Now Ephesians 3:16 teaches us our indwelt Spirit of Christ dwells in the "inner man." So when we are led by the Spirit, would it not be the mind of the inner man that is being lead?
And finally, our inner man is being renewed day by day. That would be the renewing our our mind in the inner man. Therefore, the mind or soul is part of the inner man, rather than just the Spirit.

The hidden person of 1 Peter 3:4 is the inner man, a born again spirit united with Christ (the Spirit indwells our new creation human spirit) which is imperishable. And of course that hidden person has a mind/soul which is loving and kind, bearing all the fruit of the Spirit.

No view other than the two part view fits with all scripture.

I will answer this post shortly..but would ask for now, this...

Was our spirits created before the foundation of the world?
When is our soul formed?
When do we receive our bodies?

Is the mind one of two central organs of the human triune being? The other being the heart?
What is the difference in the subjective mind and the objective mind?

The heart is deceitful above all things, right? If our heart is unregenerated, can it receive anything from God?

Note: The OT believers were under the old covenant and their access to God was by way of the Law. The NT believers are now under the new covenant of Grace and Mercy bcause of Christ's provision on the Cross. Our access to God is by way of the Spirit of God that indwells us.

 

[awaken]

I see that the spirit, soul and body were designed to fuction in harmony with one another. Our spirit being the highest form of life, is to be the head or our being and rule over our souls and bodies. Yet, at the fall of Adam, this relationship between the three was lost. Christ redemption on the cross gave every person born an opportunity to become regenerated, restored to their spirits-born again. Once we are born again, we have the capacity to live this renewed harmonious relationship between the spirit, soul and body (Gal. 5:16-26). The soul and body still need to be regererated, and that is to "work out our own salvation" (Phil. 2:12).

Rom. 12:12 speaks of renewing our mind with the word. If we are having to renew our spirit, then what does faith in Christ for salvation do for us? Our spirit is either made new or not. If it was not then we have to renew it ourselves by the word!

This is one reason I do not believe the soul and spirit are the same.

Is our mind the same as the mind of Christ? Or does our soul have a mind and our spirit have a mind too?

 

[12strings]

Was our spirits created before the foundation of the world?
When is our soul formed?
When do we receive our bodies?

Is the mind one of two central organs of the human triune being? The other being the heart?
What is the difference in the subjective mind and the objective mind?

The heart is deceitful above all things, right? If our heart is unregenerated, can it receive anything from God?

1. I would say Adam's spirit was created when God breathed into Adam...and our spirits are created at conception...woudn't you?
2. Soul= same thing
3. bodies= at conception...then it grows bigger...

4. In scripture, the same types of things are said about the mind and the heart...not refering to physical organs, but to our central volitional self, ie, our Soul, or spirit,

5. Subjective/objective? Niether word is in scripture, so I dont' know what your asking.

6. Unregnerate hearts: Now your sounding like a calvinist!