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Arminianism & Calvinism issue to split over?

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atpollard

atpollard

Well-Known Member
loDebar said:
Michael Servetus, a Spaniard, physician, scientist and Bible scholar, suffered a worse fate. He was Calvin's longtime friend who resisted the authority of the Roman Catholic Church. However, he angered Calvin by returning a copy of Calvin's Institutes with critical comments in the margins. The next time Servetus attended Calvin's Sunday preaching service on a visit, Calvin had him arrested and charged with heresy. The 38 official charges included rejection of the Trinity and infant baptism. Servetus pleaded to be beheaded instead of the more brutal method of burning at the stake, but Calvin and the city council refused the quicker death method.
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These details are incorrect.

"About 1534 a rendezvous was arranged with John Calvin in Paris to discuss theological questions, but Servetus failed to arrive.

Servetus forwarded the manuscript of an enlarged revision of his ideas, the Christianismi Restitutio, to Calvin in 1546 and expressed a desire to meet him. After their first few letters, Calvin would have nothing more to do with him and kept the manuscript. He declared to his eloquent French preacher colleague Guillaume Farel that if Servetus ever came to Geneva he would not allow him to leave alive.

When some of Servetus’ letters to Calvin fell into the hands of Guillaume de Trie, a former citizen of Lyon, he exposed Servetus to the inquisitor general at Lyon. Servetus and his printers were seized. During the trial, however, Servetus escaped, and the Catholic authorities had to be content with burning him in effigy. He quixotically appeared in Geneva and was recognized, arrested, and tried for heresy from Aug. 14 to Oct. 25, 1553. Calvin played a prominent part in the trial and pressed for execution, although by beheading rather than by fire." - excerpt from Encyclopedia Britannica

  • Note that the Roman Catholic Church first tried him at Lyon and burned him in effigy for the exact same crime (because he escaped from the Lyon trial).
  • Calvin advocated for beheading, not Servetus and was overruled by the council.
  • How much of a "longtime friend" could they have been if they continually failed to meet and Calvin would have nothing to do with him.

... and besides all of this, Particular Baptists do not follow Calvin!
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Mikey said:
Some of his work on church positions somewhat correct. Pastor, Elder, Deacon, etc

but certainly there is much we disagree with.
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Extremely strong on scripture inspiration, the Gospel, need to apply scripture theology into daily life, and on many of his commentraies!
 
L

loDebar

Well-Known Member
The Archangel said:
By this same metric, you should discard all of Peter and Paul's writings in the New Testament. Paul was a murderer and Peter denied Christ. Now, you might say something to the effect of "that was before they were true believers." That would be true, but neither man was perfect after his conversion--and it would be hard to argue that Peter was totally unregenerate when he denied Christ.

You're committing the grave error of assuming that Calvinists follow Calvin. We don't. I, for one, have never read Calvin at length. My conclusions about salvation (which some refer to as "Calvinism") come from Scripture, not Calvin. And, I know I have vast disagreements with Calvin on many issues--like baptism.

You should at least attempt a fair critique of we who call ourselves "Calvinists."

The Archangel
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One who quotes error shoud. Not be joined with Truth.
 
L

loDebar

Well-Known Member
Another thing, Baptist cannot split over Calvinism, One can only reject Baptist doctrine and accept error.
 
atpollard

atpollard

Well-Known Member
loDebar said:
Another thing, Baptist cannot split over Calvinism, One can only reject Baptist doctrine and accept error.
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:Roflmao

Baptists can split over what color to repaint the building.
("Multiplication through division" has a kernel of truth in it.)

As long as they dunk adults, they will probably still be called Baptists ... (even a Hyper-Calvinist KJVO snake-handling church)
 
L

loDebar

Well-Known Member
atpollard said:
:Roflmao

Baptists can split over what color to repaint the building.
("Multiplication through division" has a kernel of truth in it.)

As long as they dunk adults, they will probably still be called Baptists ... (even a Hyper-Calvinist KJVO snake-handling church)
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but Doctrine is not for compromise
 
L

loDebar

Well-Known Member
A predestinationist's problem

I charge you in the sight of God, and Christ Jesus, and the elect angels, that you observe these things without prejudice, doing nothing by partiality (1 Timothy 5:21).

Please explain?
 
T

tyndale1946

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
atpollard said:
These details are incorrect.

"About 1534 a rendezvous was arranged with John Calvin in Paris to discuss theological questions, but Servetus failed to arrive.

Servetus forwarded the manuscript of an enlarged revision of his ideas, the Christianismi Restitutio, to Calvin in 1546 and expressed a desire to meet him. After their first few letters, Calvin would have nothing more to do with him and kept the manuscript. He declared to his eloquent French preacher colleague Guillaume Farel that if Servetus ever came to Geneva he would not allow him to leave alive.

When some of Servetus’ letters to Calvin fell into the hands of Guillaume de Trie, a former citizen of Lyon, he exposed Servetus to the inquisitor general at Lyon. Servetus and his printers were seized. During the trial, however, Servetus escaped, and the Catholic authorities had to be content with burning him in effigy. He quixotically appeared in Geneva and was recognized, arrested, and tried for heresy from Aug. 14 to Oct. 25, 1553. Calvin played a prominent part in the trial and pressed for execution, although by beheading rather than by fire." - excerpt from Encyclopedia Britannica

  • Note that the Roman Catholic Church first tried him at Lyon and burned him in effigy for the exact same crime (because he escaped from the Lyon trial).
  • Calvin advocated for beheading, not Servetus and was overruled by the council.
  • How much of a "longtime friend" could they have been if they continually failed to meet and Calvin would have nothing to do with him.

... and besides all of this, Particular Baptists do not follow Calvin!
Click to expand...

Old Line Baptist don't follow him either... We are particular that way... Brother Glen:D
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
loDebar said:
Chosen to not to fall?, but they were not on a fallien state to begin with \? but others WERE chosen to sin, ? God made them sin?
This is not logical.
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Angels did the rebellion against God, as Satan and Adam also did!
 
TCassidy

TCassidy

Late-Administator Emeritus
Administrator
loDebar said:
A predestinationist's problem

I charge you in the sight of God, and Christ Jesus, and the elect angels, that you observe these things without prejudice, doing nothing by partiality (1 Timothy 5:21).

Please explain?
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What is there to explain? Angels are called "elect" in the bible. Israel is called "elect" in the bible. The local church collectively is called "elect" in the bible.

So, what is your question?
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
loDebar said:
Quite different
There is no faith necessary for Calvinist, no missionaries, no dedutation, no Sunday School, If one is going to be saved, nobody can stop it.
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You are confusing me with HYPER Cals, who do see it as you stated here! The Lord uses the Gospel to save His own elect , so preaching and missionaries still required!
 
The Archangel

The Archangel

Well-Known Member
loDebar said:
One who quotes error shoud. Not be joined with Truth.
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This is absurd as there is none perfect. Of course the Apostles (as well as all who authored scripture) wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. We should not and do not expect that commentators—even the greatest of Theologians—are always right in every area. They are only right insofaras they are in accordance with scripture—and no one person is likely to be always right.

To apply your line of thinking back to you, you would not be able to read any commentary or any theologian and say, “he’s right here, but wrong there.” By your own standards if you think he’s wrong in one area, he must be discarded altogether. And that line of thinking is absolutely absurd because you require of us something you would never accept for yourself.

The Archangel


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