back to the basics

[BobRyan]

In John 15 Christ defines "In Christ" as Christs word abiding in you.

He defines it in John 15:10 as resulting in obedience to God's Commandments.

In John 14:15 He says "If you LOVE Me KEEP my commandments".

The two atributes that Christ highlights are the Word of God In you and obedience.

 

[steaver]

In John 15 Christ defines "In Christ" as Christs word abiding in you.

He defines it in John 15:10 as resulting in obedience to God's Commandments.

In John 14:15 He says "If you LOVE Me KEEP my commandments".

The two atributes that Christ highlights are the Word of God In you and obedience.

This discribes my life after praying to receive Jesus when I was ten. Not perfectly but consistantly following the Spirit that I could feel living in me.

But I was never baptised in water until I was 33. Yet I experienced Christ in me for those 23 years. When I did get baptised in water I felt no different afterwards except for the satisfaction of knowing I was obedient to the Lord's command and believe it showed as my confession to about a 100 people publicly.

So I must conclude that this doctrine that Christ can only get into you through water baptism is unfounded throughout the testimonies of tens of thousands of believers in Christ.

God Bless! :jesus:

 

[trustitl]

Can I have a definition of those who are "in Christ". Not how they get there. Give me the attributes of those who are in Christ.

God Bless! :thumbs:

Great question!

dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world
quickened together with him
risen with Christ
our old man is crucified with him
dead indeed unto sin
alive unto God
sin shall not have dominion over you
made free from sin
servants of righteousness
dead to the law
delivered from the law
walk not after the flesh
not in the flesh
have received the Spirit of adoption
joint-heirs with Christ

I could go on and on, and trust me, I write these as a reminder to myself as much as for you all. Just look them over and meditate on them. Praise God. They are all ours, in Christ.

These are the attributes of those in Christ. It is not based on my experience, it is based on the word of God Himself. He said it. I believe it. Usually. That is reality. That is truth. And it is the truth that sets us free.

 

[steaver]

These are the attributes of those in Christ. It is not based on my experience, it is based on the word of God Himself. He said it. I believe it. Usually. That is reality. That is truth. And it is the truth that sets us free.

It is true that many of these on your list, if not all, we learn from trusting God at His word. There is also an "experience" side to being in Christ as well. The Spirit testifies with our spirit. Paul said don't you know your ownselves, how that Jesus Christ is in you. Ever since I received Christ when I was ten years old I have felt the Spirit testifying to my spirit throughout my life.

God bless! :thumbs:

 

[trustitl]

The list that I made is of attributes or truths about those in Christ and have nothing to do with our experience, understanding, or "feelings". My son was born with blue eyes. They did not become blue when he knew they were blue or when someone told him his blue eyes were beautiful.

These are the reality that a child of God exists in not because of anything in us. The God of the universe proclaimed them and thus they are true. They are wonderful promises. You obviously believe them and are able to experience the freedom that comes from walking in truth. Keep it up! :jesus:


Standing on the promises that cannot fail,
When the howling storms of doubt and fear assail,
By the living Word of God I shall prevail,
Standing on the promises of God.

Standing on the promises of Christ the Lord,
Bound to Him eternally by love’s strong cord,
Overcoming daily with the Spirit’s sword,
Standing on the promises of God.

 

[Sgt. Fury]

Ever since I received Christ when I was ten years old I have felt the Spirit testifying to my spirit throughout my life.

The Spirit beareth witness with us, not to our spirit.

 

[BobRyan]

Romans 8:16 The Sprit bears witness with OUR spirit that we ARE the children of God.

Here is NASB

16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God

 

[gekko]

hey - i don't know where this thread has gone in 9 pages.. havn't read it - my question was answered on the first page - that's why i havn't come back to say anything since.

thought this might apply to this thread though:

Basic Christian Doctrine

God bless

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

'These are the attributes of those in Christ.'

These are the attributes in Christ of those in Christ.

 

[BobRyan]

Was Abraham baptised in water?

God Bless! :thumbs:

Good point --

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

This discribes my life after praying to receive Jesus when I was ten. Not perfectly but consistantly following the Spirit that I could feel living in me.

But I was never baptised in water until I was 33. Yet I experienced Christ in me for those 23 years. When I did get baptised in water I felt no different afterwards except for the satisfaction of knowing I was obedient to the Lord's command and believe it showed as my confession to about a 100 people publicly.

So I must conclude that this doctrine that Christ can only get into you through water baptism is unfounded throughout the testimonies of tens of thousands of believers in Christ.

God Bless! :jesus:

GE

I had a similar life-experience. It took me not long before I reached a very similar conclusion. In fact, I even before I decided to be baptised, had something in my head, and that's why waited so long to have myself baptised. And it was not much longer after, that my conclusion went quite a way beyond yours.
Today I am convinced, water baptism was the prerogative of the Apostles - a'sign' to or for them, that they were the chosen to start the NT Church. Any person after the apostles is not entitled to water-baptism; it is assuming! And the Church which has laid claim to water-baptism as a Covenant sign to itself, behaves contrary Jesus' Command to "baptise in the Name". No, that isn't good enough, we must add water. I cannot accept!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

The baptism that puts one "into Christ" is described as a burial and a raising (Rom 6:3-5; Col 2:12). What baptism can be described in this way?

Were/are people buried in the Holy Spirit and then raised up out of him again?

OR

Were/are people buried in water and then raised up out of it again?

Which one fits the description?

GE
You refer here to the only baptism the believer could receive or have so as to be saved utterly: it is the baptism of the believer IN CHRIST - NOT in water, not in himself or by himself or in the Church or by the Church, but "IN CHRIST", "WITH HIM", in fact - if I remember the Greek correctly - "THROUGH" and "BY" HIM. Because this is the baptism John assured the Messiah would baptise with. It has NOTHING to do with water - not 'in' water' nor 'with' water; it EXCLUDES anything like water; it INCLUDES absolutely, in Christ.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

The New Testament supplies two things 'mysterious' - 'sacramental' - needful / necessary / profitable to the Church: Those two things are indicated by the Name of Jesus; are attributively described BY His Title: "The Lord's". Those two things are: "The Lord's Day"-'Hehmera Kuriakeh', and, "The Lord's Supper"-'Kyriakos Deipnon'. Baptism in the case of converts has not in the New Testament received the Lord's Title. That to me is 'final evidence' it should not "remain obligatory" ('apoleipetai' Hb4:9) for post-apostolic Christians.

 

[Sgt. Fury]

Originally by Steaver: Yet I experienced Christ in me for those 23 years...So I must conclude that this doctrine that Christ can only get into you through water baptism is unfounded throughout the testimonies of tens of thousands of believers in Christ.

Originally by GE: I had a similar life-experience. It took me not long before I reached a very similar conclusion. In fact, I even before I decided to be baptised, had something in my head, and that's why waited so long to have myself baptised. And it was not much longer after, that my conclusion went quite a way beyond yours.

I don't doubt your sincerety. I felt differently when I turned my attention to the Lord and His word as well. My mind had changed about how I had lived my life, and the evidence was a change in my actions and attitudes. That's repentance. It made me think I was saved when I wasn't.

People repent all the time, often with no regard for Christ or the gospel. People repent and join the Hare Krishna's. Some repent and quit smoking. Repentance is simply a change of mind that results in a change of action.

We cannot afford to draw conclusions from how we feel. Feelings are powerful, but subjective, and often deceptive. We must rely solely on God's word for where to draw our conclusions from.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Sargent Fury:
"We must rely solely on God's word for where to draw our conclusions from."

GE
Yes indeed. God's Word entitles what belongs to the Lord's worship - with the Title of 'Lord'; baptism with water never in God's Word receives that Title. It is no 'BASIC', but has been made a rod for self-inflicted 'repentance' and to cause division with.

 

[Crabtownboy]

By believing on the Lord Jesus Christ and showing it by:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

It is how we treat others and how we help others and how we love, agape, others that our faith in Jesus is shown.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Yes! And how our faith is always and anon shown to be imperfect, wanting, failing, weak and eternally shortcoming. You have referred to the hardest of Commandments which no man ever has not dismally failed to obey .
That's the one side of the coin; the other is, whether true or not, it changes not the need and importance of Christian, Scriptural doctrine. The acid test for the genuineness of which is, that it shall disprove human merit. No doctrine that does not 'show' / prove and teach salvation by Grace through faith only, can be Chrisian faith; it fails as a 'basic'; it is the sand a man builds his house on. Doctrine is there, is needed and is necessary - indispensibly - is a 'basic' to point out and prevent pride or self-confidence and self-righteousness. Doctrine is there, is needed and is necessary - indispensibly - is a 'basic' to point out and show dependence where Law works pride. Or it's no 'basic' and not necessary, but superfluous and a stench in the nose of God (like our good works when we offer them before the Lord as our merit).

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

There is but one basic of all Christian basics, and that is that salvation is all of Grace, all by Grace, all through Grace, and all for Grace. Faith is but one of the gifts of that Grace which is God's Love in Jesus Christ for and to us, his Elect. The foundation is that God so willed; which is to say, that "God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son."